CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[Lexiintoronto]

That seems so much like rumour-mongering though. What friends are speculating? Who did they hear the info from? Probably from each other, IMO. Like Pooh and Piglet tracking their own footsteps through the snow, and going round and round.

ETA: also, why would the shopping mall release video footage of a homicide victim to a journalist?

JMO

Yes—it’s a big stretch. I agree. And I can’t believe they didn’t have security cameras.

I was trying to think of the best place for the suspect to park, if in fact he drove at some point.

The mall trip is significant somehow, although I don’t know why. Alex’s husband showed Donovan proof that Honey had shopped there.

 

[Satchie]

It's possible these arrangements made at the crimescene weren't pointless at all. Whatever it was that was 'staged' (and it must have been some major indication that we are as yet unaware of), must have done such a good job of making it appear to be a murder/suicide that it seems to have kept police off the murder trail for some time.. enough time for the killer to disappear himself. imo.

I would comment that nothing anyone does is ever pointless, including posting cryptic comments on a true crime discussion forum.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thinking about this a little more.. BP could easily have said.. 'none of the S family recognize this individual'. Pretty simple and doesn't betray any confidences. But he didn't. imo.

I don’t think there’s any mystery there. The walking man has been declared a suspect so if any of the S’s knew who he was TPS would have already arrested him and no reason to ask the general public for help in IDing him.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes—it’s a big stretch. I agree. And I can’t believe they didn’t have security cameras.

I was trying to think of the best place for the suspect to park, if in fact he drove at some point.

The mall trip is significant somehow, although I don’t know why. Alex’s husband showed Donovan proof that Honey had shopped there.

I think it's significant because it's part of her timeline for when she arrived home, and adds confirmation to the ME's opinion on TOD. They would've been able to verify the time of her purchase, and allowed time to drive home.. and looked for her vehicle on various cameras along the way, etc. I'm thinking it wasn't significant in the sense of something happening at the mall itself. jmo though.

 

[deugirtni]

I don’t think there’s any mystery there. The walking man has been declared a suspect so if any of the S’s knew who he was TPS would have already arrested him and no reason to ask the general public for help in IDing him.

I think sometimes things are not as simple as they might seem. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe KD has a very strict code to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as far as he knows, but IMO not everyone else abides by that code, possibly including security departments of major shopping centres. I would think by now, with his reputation for taking TPS to court quarterly, most companies who see him coming slam close the gates so that he's left staring at a brick wall.

JMO

I really doubt anyone in security of major shopping malls are allowed talk to anyone other than LE with a warrant in their hand. It’s unthinkable for there not to be security cameras all around.

The carjacking theory seems like idle speculation from early on, considering by now TPS would surely know if HS came home alone or not. IIRC she made some phone calls after she got home.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think sometimes things are not as simple as they might seem. imo.

So the S family already ID’d the walking man and……..what then?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The police said the Shermans were killed at some time between 9:00pm —to 12:00 am.

I would think that means they’re basing this on the suspect’s movements. If so, why was the killer in the home for at least 3 hours?

 

[deugirtni]

So the S family already ID’d the walking man and……..what then?

I guess we all have our own personal theories as to what happened, and now that we have seen this video of a 'suspect', that may or may not have changed for some or all. Suffice it to say that for me, imo, if when the S family was presented with the video(s) of the suspect, if it had been a simple 'no' all around, it would have been easy for BP to answer the reporter's question with a simple, 'no they did not recognize the suspect', just as he answered the first part of the same reporter's question, with a confirmation they'd been shown the video(s). But.. he didn't. So for me, that is very interesting. Your experience may vary.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I really doubt anyone in security of major shopping malls are allowed talk to anyone other than LE with a warrant in their hand. It’s unthinkable for there not to be security cameras all around.

The carjacking theory seems like idle speculation from early on, considering by now TPS would surely know if HS came home alone or not. IIRC she made some phone calls after she got home.

I agree it’s unlikely Honey gave someone a lift from the mall.

The last call we know that she made was a five-minute conversation at 6:21 pm.

Just posting part of the timeline as we’re on the subject:

5:00 pm, approximately, Honey pulled into the Apotex parking lot, followed shortly by architects there to meet with Honey and Barry to discuss the plans for the new house they were planning to build.

5:00 pm is the time that magnetic locks at Apotex activate, preventing anyone from entering the building without a special pass.

*5:30...6:00 pm (Donovan and the CBC specify different times, I’ll leave the CBC link here.), the meeting ends and Barry walks them all to the front doors and they exit. The team of architects drive off, and Honey drives off. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5860527

6:21 pm, Honey makes her last known call (as per link directly above.) She speaks to a friend for approximately 5 minutes. As per the Star, her friend stated that: “Honey sounded completely normal and was ‘on her way home.’ ” Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned

Honey stops by Bayview Village Shopping Centre and makes purchases. (time not specified).

-7:17 pm, time code of photo of Jonathon’s hand, with his home in the background, that Jonathon later shows to Kevin Donovan to establish his whereabouts on the evening of the murders.(Source in article linked below.)

8:13 pm, Barry composed a routine email at his desktop computer at Apotex.

8:30 pm, Barry left Apotex.

-Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered within a few hours upon arriving home on Wednesday, December 13th, according to Homicide Inspector Hank Idsinga. Police believe they were both killed between 9:00 pm-12:00 am. (His statement was on January 15th, 2020. Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered within hours of arriving home, Toronto police say)

 

[ldlager]

It seems to me that LE should know from various videos how long this person was walking around the area from the first time they were captured on film until the last time. It's possible he/she left the area and came back- maybe caught a bus to go see a movie, whatever. But if LE has the person on tape periodically/on and off during the whole evening of Dec 17 walking around the area then the total elapsed time would likely lead one to conclude he/she could be involved in these crimes. You don't spend hours outside typically on such a cold night (unless you are a kid playing). JMO

 

[Sphinx]

I guess we all have our own personal theories as to what happened, and now that we have seen this video of a 'suspect', that may or may not have changed for some or all. Suffice it to say that for me, imo, if when the S family was presented with the video(s) of the suspect, if it had been a simple 'no' all around, it would have been easy for BP to answer the reporter's question with a simple, 'no they did not recognize the suspect', just as he answered the first part of the same reporter's question, with a confirmation they'd been shown the video(s). But.. he didn't. So for me, that is very interesting. Your experience may vary.

I think it would probably be considered unethical, and just plain against the rules in a homicide, to reveal anything said by people who were questioned. Besides that, the family wants to remain quite private, as I understand it, and even if it were allowed, I think they would be offended. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

The police said the Shermans were killed at some time between 9:00pm —to 12:00 am.

I would think that means they’re basing this on the suspect’s movements. If so, why was the killer in the home for at least 3 hours?

It was only KD that said they were killed between 9pm and midnight. This was based on Idsinga telling 'the Star' that the couple were killed 'on Wednesday'. I wrote about my interpretation of how KD made it into 9pm and midnight here in this post linked below. It makes sense of course, since it is Wednesday until midnight. But if at that time, police were already studying these videos of this suspect, I'm sure LE has a much tighter timeline... it could've been between 9pm and 10pm and he only stayed for one hour.. or less, or more, or whatever, but they're not willing to give that part up. imo. :

CANADA - Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

 

[juli99]

My feeling is that he took public transportation. Where could he possibly park a car that wouldn't arouse suspicion between 9 pm and midnight on a cold wintery night? Even as a trained killer, that would have to be really nerve-wracking worrying that someone is going to call the cops on a random car parked somewhere.

 

[deugirtni]

My feeling is that he took public transportation. Where could he possibly park a car that wouldn't arouse suspicion between 9 pm and midnight on a cold wintery night? Even as a trained killer, that would have to be really nerve-wracking worrying that someone is going to call the cops on a random car parked somewhere.

I'm not sure how it is in Toronto, but in my area there are sections where people are not allowed to park during a snow storm, to allow for plowing vehicles. It wasn't storming that night, IIRC, however, it's still possible the plows would've been out. I'm thinking he got dropped off by someone else, far enough away from the S residence, or even better yet, took a cab.. perhaps from the airport? I hope LE has checked on all the cab company logs for December 13th, to search for someone getting dropped off in the area where LE has first spotted this suspect?

 

[Satchie]

It seems to me that LE should know from various videos how long this person was walking around the area from the first time they were captured on film until the last time. It's possible he/she left the area and came back- maybe caught a bus to go see a movie, whatever. But if LE has the person on tape periodically/on and off during the whole evening of Dec 17 walking around the area then the total elapsed time would likely lead one to conclude he/she could be involved in these crimes. You don't spend hours outside typically on such a cold night (unless you are a kid playing). JMO

It occurs to me, the suspect couldn't have been able to predict when Honey and Barry would each arrive home, I don't think they'd planned that themselves. So, how long would the suspect have been lurking to see that everyone had left the home, and then to watch for Honey to arrive home alone? And had they lurked on other nights, when the coast was not clear, or the Sherman's arrived together, etc? My mind boggles a bit, at how this was done.

 

[juli99]

I'm not sure how it is in Toronto, but in my area there are sections where people are not allowed to park during a snow storm, to allow for plowing vehicles. It wasn't storming that night, IIRC, however, it's still possible the plows would've been out. I'm thinking he got dropped off by someone else, far enough away from the S residence, or even better yet, took a cab.. perhaps from the airport? I hope LE has checked on all the cab company logs for December 13th, to search for someone getting dropped off in the area where LE has first spotted this suspect?

I can see the drop off by an associate. The cab seems a little sketchy. Would a hit man rely on calling a cab from some random location after just committing murder?

 

[dotr]

I can see the drop off by an associate. The cab seems a little sketchy. Would a hit man rely on calling a cab from some random location after just committing murder?

Any motorcycles on the road in December?

 

[Sphinx]

It occurs to me, the suspect couldn't have been able to predict when Honey and Barry would each arrive home, I don't think they'd planned that themselves. So, how long would the suspect have been lurking to see that everyone had left the home, and then to watch for Honey to arrive home alone? And had they lurked on other nights, when the coast was not clear, or the Sherman's arrived together, etc? My mind boggles a bit, at how this was done.

Likely lookouts were involved. If the assassin was not carrying a cell, so he could not be tracked, someone could have driven by him in a car, and waved or given certain signals so he would know Honey was home. Also, her Lexus was parked in the front driveway. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

It occurs to me, the suspect couldn't have been able to predict when Honey and Barry would each arrive home, I don't think they'd planned that themselves. So, how long would the suspect have been lurking to see that everyone had left the home, and then to watch for Honey to arrive home alone? And had they lurked on other nights, when the coast was not clear, or the Sherman's arrived together, etc? My mind boggles a bit, at how this was done.

Someone (perhaps if it was a hired hit, it was the hiring party, who may have been close enough to know their schedules?) may have known the S's schedule regarding the meeting that evening with the architects (even though it had been moved?).. hey may have lurked on the property.. or ... did he gain access via the 'unlocked' basement door we have heard about, and wait for them inside?