Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[Hazel]

As many of us know from other cases that involved wealthy people, the city, county, state representatives have a direct ear to hear what they are saying and have the pull to make the changes happen.

The first two things that jump into my mind over claiming that HS and BS was a murder suicide is the adult children know their parents very well and don’t see this as a possibility. As shrewd a business man that BS was, he would know there would be questions and doubts of payouts on ͏Li͏f͏e insurance policies. I imagine the policies were extremely high and he would not deny this money to his children.

The second thought is the Sherman’s were a highly respected and philanthropist couple. While BS may have had many disgruntled business dealings, that did not take away from their society standing or the help they gave to others. Why tarnish their legacy with a Suicide/Murder? TPD needed to do an investigation into this high power couple and not speak too quickly! To me, it seemed they called it too quickly, as if it was a job they could get out of spending a lot of time on. JMO! One of the adult children may have mentioned the life insurance policies and it didn’t pay on suicide. I think any of us would do the same thing in a situation like this. There was mucho money at stake, plus the intuition of four children. I think they did the correct thing by hiring a PI.

It reminds me of the Coronado case where Rebecca Zahau was left lying dead out in the sunshine yard for about 10-12 hours. A wealthy man was involved in this case. The police department-did a half arse investigation! It was ruled suicide but was most definitely murder. The wealthy man was working behind the scenes.

My opinions only.

(rbbm)

I appreciate your opinions 1&2&3 JMHO MOO
:twocents:

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I can't recall reading that KW was living in a house he was renting from BS.

Do you have a link, please?

Or is that "insider's" information?

I thought KW said something about his house and a $2500/mo payment in the 5th Royal interview, maybe I am misremembering.

MOO

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[human]

Human, it seems very unlikely to me that LE missed finding the earring. They walked back and forth up the driveway for 6 weeks. Even if there was snow on the ground, they used metal detectors along the edge of the road on the Sherman’s property and their lawn and also neighbours properties. For a few days and even weeks there was no snow on the street or driveway. If LE missed them there should be serious questions raised about their investigation of the scene IMO. But it stretches belief that they did miss them. Imo.

That makes sense. Maybe that type of earring is popular.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

"In August 2007, the court heard the suit against Kerry. His lawyer, Malcolm Kronby, argued that Sherman was acting vindictively. The judge still ruled in Sherman’s favour and Kerry had to surrender two business properties, a cottage and his home on Bellwoods Avenue. Kerry agreed to stay on as a tenant, paying $2,500 a month. Even this sum could be hard to come by. His construction company was shrinking while he continued to obsess over justice and riches.

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

Thanks!

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[clearskies1]

I wonder what evidence LE has to say so definitely that they were both targeted ? Do they have video footage of a car following both of them on the route home from Apotex on the evening of Dec. 13 th ? There must have been footage from different homes and commercial enterprises along their route. It reminds me of the Tim Bosma murder case, where LE gathered vital video from a variety of sources that showed Tim's truck being followed on the night he was killed. It is possible that the killers wore hoodies or something to obscure pictures of their faces. I think they knew what they were doing, as a professional hit team ; they likely had studied the route, and knew when they would be on film. There also had to be many homes along the way that had video surveillance. I hope that after 2 days it would still be available, and not recorded over. IMO

I re-watched the news conference that Det-Sgt Gomes gave. She was asked multiple times about why they think it is a double homicide and what led them to the believe that they were targeted. To the reporters' dismay, she would not give any specifics and repeatedly generically replied that it was "based on 6 weeks of investigation". Not a surprising response I guess since she obviously doesn't want to compromise the investigation. The only real glimmer of new information I got was that she acknowledged that they had video of people in the neighborhood. My gut feeling is that they think they have the suspect(s) on video.

 

[human]

I looked up Chanel and I do not see anything like her jewelry. It starts at a few thousand dollars a pair.

https://www.chanel.com/en_AS/watches-jewellery/jewellery/c/earrings/J001003?page=4

 

[human]

I re-watched the news conference that Det-Sgt Gomes gave. She was asked multiple times about why they think it is a double homicide and what led them to the believe that they were targeted. To the reporters' dismay, she would not give any specifics and repeatedly generically replied that it was "based on 6 weeks of investigation". Not a surprising response I guess since she obviously doesn't want to compromise the investigation. The only real glimmer of new information I got was that she acknowledged that they had video of people in the neighborhood. My gut feeling is that they think they have the suspect(s) on video.

I would think in such a neighborhood there are plenty of cameras.But then again, I would have guessed the Shermans had great security.

If they came hidden in Honey’s car, they still would have to get away somehow. I do not see how that would be possible to do,without being on camera

 

[minorone]

I googled about how to compromise and pick realtor lock boxes & seems it is doable. Depends on the system and controls in place.

Also I would think that builders & some of the staff associated with the sale of these properties would have access to realtors and are licensed to sell properties. KW working for a custom home builder would undoubtedly know some realtors/sales people. All builders use lock boxes on properties as access is required by trades and marketers.

Listing agents and other realtors usually do not care who sells the property and may give or share the code/pin number/id/smartphone with people that are not members of the local MLS or someone willing to pay a generous fee for access to the property.

I also read that sometimes the listing realtors prefer that security systems be turned off when the property is listed as it would require giving out alarm codes.

 

[Hazel]

"

• Teplitsky also declined to comment on the appeal. However, he did tell Maclean’s that as of last week he no longer represents Kerry Winter. Teplitsky would not elaborate on why Winter is no longer a client; he would only say that he continues to act for Winter’s brother, Paul Barkin, and the estate of Dana Barkin, who died in 1995. Jeffrey Barkin, the fourth cousin, is self-represented.
  
  
  ​
  
  
  

Gee you think the Fifth Estate "performance" of KW had anything to do with his lawyer quitting? KW was reckless in all his interviews and I would have been surprised if his lawyer stuck by him.

Indeed that was my first thought, but I don't like to have tunnel vision, and want to leave the doors open to other possibilities. He was the obvious suspect from day one, way too obvious, if you know what I mean.
IMHO MOO JMHO

and then practically offers himself on a silver platter as prime suspect. The "bowling" comment was over the top. JMHO MOO
Perhaps I have watched too many mystery shows, where the obvious suspect turns out to be innocent.

:fishy:

 

[clearskies1]

I would think in such a neighborhood there are plenty of cameras.But then again, I would have guessed the Shermans had great security.

If they came hidden in Honey’s car, they still would have to get away somehow. I do not see how that would be possible to do,without being on camera

I agree. But if they were well disguised/covered (hoods etc) maybe video isn't that helpful. Also, presumably it happened at night, with not so good lighting. Wondering if they came by car and parked nearby -- that would be risky with video picking up a license plate. Did someone pick them up? Is there any of that on video?

 

[human]

I googled about how to compromise and pick realtor lock boxes & seems it is doable. Depends on the system and controls in place.

Also I would think that builders & some of the staff associated with the sale of these properties would have access to realtors and are licensed to sell properties. KW working for a custom home builder would undoubtedly know some realtors/sales people. All builders use lock boxes on properties as access is required by trades and marketers.

Listing agents and other realtors usually do not care who sells the property and may give or share the code/pin number/id/smartphone with people that are not members of the local MLS or someone willing to pay a generous fee for access to the property.

I also read that sometimes the listing realtors prefer that security systems be turned off when the property is listed as it would require giving out alarm codes.

Great info! Makes sense!

 

[Tighthead]

People are still going on about life insurance and suicide clauses?

Firstly, if the Shermans had life insurance it wouldn’t be a term policy. Secondly, suicide clauses are generally only valid for two years, and they are not universal.

 

[human]

Indeed that was my first thought, but I don't like to have tunnel vision, and want to leave the doors open to other possibilities. He was the obvious suspect from day one, way too obvious, if you know what I mean.
IMHO MOO JMHO

and then practically offers himself on a silver platter as prime suspect. The "bowling" comment was over the top. JMHO MOO
Perhaps I have watched too many mystery shows, where the obvious suspect turns out to be innocent.

:fishy:

We have seen on WS that there are killers actively involved in the case. I remember the little girl, Alanna Gallagher who was killed by the neighbor. He was involved in the search. Then there was that kid who killed the little girl in Santa Cruz. He was asking LE all of the time how it was going. There are many examples on here of killers in the limelight

 

[Hazel]

Why do you think LE was up on the roof?

Was the sewer sweep looking for a particular item or were they hoping something accidentally fell?

I do not believe Honey’s earring was a plant. Why was it out there? Dropped by the killers? How did they exit the house?

Did they attack Honey outside and her earring dropped? Seems risky to attack someone outside.

How would the killers know that the Sherman house was not loaded with the best technology in the world for security?

How was the pool camera disabled? For a long time or just that night?

Why did they choose that night? Did they know where Honey and Barry would be that night?

Good questions, but at this point all we can do is guess.
It was reported that LE was seen on the roof on two occasions.
Is a surveillance camera up there? If so, my best guess is LE could have been checking the angle(s) of the camera(s)?
In a previous thread I joked about the perp(s) landing on the roof from helicopters, and thinking that LE just wanted to be very thorough.
Someone also suggested the perp(s) having used drones. ALL just speculation, JMHO MOO

The sewer question, again, LE wanted to be very thorough, in case something was flushed down the toilet. JMHO MOO

My first thought about the earrings was that is was a plant, and no, not by the cameraman, nor media, nor LE. MOO JMHO speculation
This theory is also very plausible:

Has it been confirmed that the earring belonged to Honey?
It is possible the earring was lost by someone dropping flowers off at the roadside memorial. Just a thought.

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Regarding your question about how the killer(s) knew "that the Sherman house was not loaded with the best technology in the world for security", I guess there's not many people that will know about that (if that is the case, that they don't have it). All JMHO MOO

 

[human]

Good questions, but at this point all we can do is guess.
It was reported that LE was seen on the roof on two occasions.
Is a surveillance camera up there? If so, my best guess is LE could have been checking the angle(s) of the camera(s)?
In a previous thread I joked about the perp(s) landing on the roof from helicopters, and thinking that LE just wanted to be very thorough.
Someone also suggested the perp(s) having used drones. ALL just speculation, JMHO MOO

The sewer question, again, LE wanted to be very thorough, in case something was flushed down the toilet. JMHO MOO

My first thought about the earrings was that is was a plant, and no, not by the cameraman, nor media, nor LE. MOO JMHO speculation
This theory is also very plausible:

Regarding your question about how the killer(s) knew "that the Sherman house was not loaded with the best technology in the world for security", I guess there's not many people that will know about that (if that is the case, that they don't have it). All JMHO MOO

The sewer was a bad term on my part. Sewers for toilets are in enclosed pipes and not accessible. , What LE was doing was looking at the storm water system where street run off goes. Perhaps something washed away or they thought somone dropped something into the drain? Something metal must be missing.

And the dropped earring by someone else makes sense. A walker or a looky loo or a well wisher.

I cannot imagine a killer would have the guts to go back there and drop an earring. But then again, the killer in Tampa was killing in a heavily LE guarded area.

He was caught on a camera at night but was hard to id. People teased him that he was the one on the camera, but no one really thought it was.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Good questions, but at this point all we can do is guess.
It was reported that LE was seen on the roof on two occasions.
Is a surveillance camera up there? If so, my best guess is LE could have been checking the angle(s) of the camera(s)?
In a previous thread I joked about the perp(s) landing on the roof from helicopters, and thinking that LE just wanted to be very thorough.
Someone also suggested the perp(s) having used drones. ALL just speculation, JMHO MOO

The sewer question, again, LE wanted to be very thorough, in case something was flushed down the toilet. JMHO MOO

My first thought about the earrings was that is was a plant, and no, not by the cameraman, nor media, nor LE. MOO JMHO speculation
This theory is also very plausible:

Regarding your question about how the killer(s) knew "that the Sherman house was not loaded with the best technology in the world for security", I guess there's not many people that will know about that (if that is the case, that they don't have it). All JMHO MOO

RBBM

Maybe a security camera was missing from the roof? That might explain the search with the metal detectors as well.

 

[Hazel]

"In August 2007, the court heard the suit against Kerry. His lawyer, Malcolm Kronby, argued that Sherman was acting vindictively. The judge still ruled in Sherman’s favour and Kerry had to surrender two business properties, a cottage and his home on Bellwoods Avenue. Kerry agreed to stay on as a tenant, paying $2,500 a month. Even this sum could be hard to come by. His construction company was shrinking while he continued to obsess over justice and riches.

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

Thank you minorone.

The more I read and learn about BS's corporate lawsuits, but I'm mostly shocked :noooo: about the personal lawsuits. (just my humble opinion, my opinion only)

I'm particularly concerned about the Nancy Olivieri case: (JMHO, MOO) Is like he was going through life as if it was a video game. Anyone who got in his way, was "aim and destroy" JMO JMHO MOO

In one of Apotex’s most high-profile battles, the company went head to head with Dr. Nancy Olivieri, a blood disease specialist at SickKids who was researching the drug deferiprone as an alternative treatment for thalassemia, a disorder that can lead to unsafe buildups of iron.

Olivieri and Dr. Gideon Koren, the discredited doctor at the centre of the Motherisk scandal, were running a clinical trial for Apotex.

When Olivieri, the lead researcher, raised concerns about the efficacy and potentially life threatening risks of the drug, Sherman’s company threatened legal action and pulled funding for her clinical trial. Neither Apotex nor Koren, who would later disparage Olivieri and her supporters, shared her concerns.

In the years that followed, lawsuits were launched by both parties. It was more than a decade before Olivieri and Apotex settled in 2014.

Research integrity and patient safety were at the heart of the issue, said Arthur Schafer, a University of Manitoba professor and the founding director of the school’s Centre for Professional and Applied Ethics, who supported Olivieri as an unpaid ethics consultant throughout the legal battle.

“The Olivieri scandal was the greatest ethical scandal I would say in Canadian corporate history and certainly in pharmaceutical history,” he said. “It’s included now in bioethics textbooks, it’s a standard illustration of how drug company power can be used to subvert the integrity of research hospitals and universities when the profitability of the company and the effectiveness and safety of their drugs is challenged by a researcher.”

“The company was ruthless,” he said, adding that neither the University of Toronto nor SickKids supported Olivieri and in fact attacked her integrity when she came under fire from Apotex.

While Sherman may have “sincerely believed” Olivieri was wrong, the case doesn’t “say much for his concern about patient safety or research integrity,” Schafer said.

“I think it took a tremendous toll on her,” he said, but “ultimately, she was completely vindicated.”​

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ice-cant-responsible-billionaires-deaths.html

 

[ldlager]

Good questions, but at this point all we can do is guess.
It was reported that LE was seen on the roof on two occasions.
Is a surveillance camera up there? If so, my best guess is LE could have been checking the angle(s) of the camera(s)?
In a previous thread I joked about the perp(s) landing on the roof from helicopters, and thinking that LE just wanted to be very thorough.
Someone also suggested the perp(s) having used drones. ALL just speculation, JMHO MOO

The sewer question, again, LE wanted to be very thorough, in case something was flushed down the toilet. JMHO MOO

My first thought about the earrings was that is was a plant, and no, not by the cameraman, nor media, nor LE. MOO JMHO speculation
This theory is also very plausible:

Regarding your question about how the killer(s) knew "that the Sherman house was not loaded with the best technology in the world for security", I guess there's not many people that will know about that (if that is the case, that they don't have it). All JMHO MOO

Hazel, I am interested in your thoughts on who you think could have planted these earrings. After reading your excellent post, my thoughts landed on the PI’s. I’m not sure who else it could be. Is this what you are thinking also?

 

[Grey-St]

Thank you minorone.

The more I read and learn about BS's corporate lawsuits, but I'm mostly shocked :noooo: about the personal lawsuits. (just my humble opinion, my opinion only)

I'm particularly concerned about the Nancy Olivieri case: (JMHO, MOO) Is like he was going through life as if it was a video game. Anyone who got in his way, was "aim and destroy" JMO JMHO MOO

In one of Apotex’s most high-profile battles, the company went head to head with Dr. Nancy Olivieri, a blood disease specialist at SickKids who was researching the drug deferiprone as an alternative treatment for thalassemia, a disorder that can lead to unsafe buildups of iron.

Olivieri and Dr. Gideon Koren, the discredited doctor at the centre of the Motherisk scandal, were running a clinical trial for Apotex.

When Olivieri, the lead researcher, raised concerns about the efficacy and potentially life threatening risks of the drug, Sherman’s company threatened legal action and pulled funding for her clinical trial. Neither Apotex nor Koren, who would later disparage Olivieri and her supporters, shared her concerns.

In the years that followed, lawsuits were launched by both parties. It was more than a decade before Olivieri and Apotex settled in 2014.

Research integrity and patient safety were at the heart of the issue, said Arthur Schafer, a University of Manitoba professor and the founding director of the school’s Centre for Professional and Applied Ethics, who supported Olivieri as an unpaid ethics consultant throughout the legal battle.

“The Olivieri scandal was the greatest ethical scandal I would say in Canadian corporate history and certainly in pharmaceutical history,” he said. “It’s included now in bioethics textbooks, it’s a standard illustration of how drug company power can be used to subvert the integrity of research hospitals and universities when the profitability of the company and the effectiveness and safety of their drugs is challenged by a researcher.”

“The company was ruthless,” he said, adding that neither the University of Toronto nor SickKids supported Olivieri and in fact attacked her integrity when she came under fire from Apotex.

While Sherman may have “sincerely believed” Olivieri was wrong, the case doesn’t “say much for his concern about patient safety or research integrity,” Schafer said.

“I think it took a tremendous toll on her,” he said, but “ultimately, she was completely vindicated.”​

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ice-cant-responsible-billionaires-deaths.html

One of the worst sub-stories thus far, imo. I was pretty appalled by this.

 

[ldlager]

One of the worst sub-stories thus far, imo. I was pretty appalled by this.

I remember it well. I believe BS even called her insane at one point.