Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[human]

When I was fighting an environmental battle where I lived in MN, I was able to meet and talk with a lot of very interesting scientists. There used to be a site on the net called Scientists for Sale which gave scientists names and what companies they were paid by. Not sure if it is still there.

Anyway, a scientisf from a major college told me that drug companies are rhe ones that pay for studies. 6 months. Things look good. 9 months. Hm. Problem. One year. Big problem. (The time span is just an example)

Since the company owns the research, they publish the six month studies. Then they wait for the lawsuits. They make far more money on the drugs than what they have to pay out for a lawsuit.

I was told this info maybe 20 years ago. I forget exactly

 

[Hazel]

I googled about how to compromise and pick realtor lock boxes & seems it is doable. Depends on the system and controls in place.

Also I would think that builders & some of the staff associated with the sale of these properties would have access to realtors and are licensed to sell properties. KW working for a custom home builder would undoubtedly know some realtors/sales people. All builders use lock boxes on properties as access is required by trades and marketers.

Listing agents and other realtors usually do not care who sells the property and may give or share the code/pin number/id/smartphone with people that are not members of the local MLS or someone willing to pay a generous fee for access to the property.

I also read that sometimes the listing realtors prefer that security systems be turned off when the property is listed as it would require giving out alarm codes.

I read on another public forum (so this has to be taken as rumour), that the real estate agent that found them was not the same listing agent we see on the lawn sign, so you could be right about other real estate agents having access to the lockbox. I disagree with the part that they do not care who sells the property. Commissions on a property worth over 5M are most likely high, so they probably only share with very few real estate agents. JMHO MOO

 

[human]

I read on another public forum (so this has to be taken as rumour), that the real estate agent that found them was not the same listing agent we see on the lawn sign, so you could be right about other real estate agents having access to the lockbox. I disagree with the part that they do not care who sells the property. Commissions on a property worth over 5M are most likely high, so they probably only share with very few real estate agents. JMHO MOO

Aren’t most properties on what we call in the US MLS—- Multiple Listing Service, I think it is.

 

[Hazel]

RBBM

Maybe a security camera was missing from the roof? That might explain the search with the metal detectors as well.

That's possible.

 

[ldlager]

I read on another public forum (so this has to be taken as rumour), that the real estate agent that found them was not the same listing agent we see on the lawn sign, so you could be right about other real estate agents having access to the lockbox. I disagree with the part that they do not care who sells the property. Commissions on a property worth over 5M are most likely high, so they probably only share with very few real estate agents. JMHO MOO

I understood from a friend that is a realtor in the area that the realtor that found them was a male, not the listing agent, who was a lady. Not that it makes any difference I guess, still a horrible thing to have happen to someone.

 

[Hazel]

Aren’t most properties on what we call in the US MLS—- Multiple Listing Service, I think it is.

I don't know if the Sherman's house was listed online, MLS or sold-by-owner. I'll have to check Thread #1 for the link on the Toronto Life, that I think was published one day before they were found, so that would have been the Thursday Dec. 14th, so that wouldn't have had any bearing on the perp(s) finding out the house was for sale. I don't know if there was another public announcement as in being listed on MLS prior to that Toronto Life article.

Hopefully some other websleuth can help out with that information.

 

[minorone]

I read on another public forum (so this has to be taken as rumour), that the real estate agent that found them was not the same listing agent we see on the lawn sign, so you could be right about other real estate agents having access to the lockbox. I disagree with the part that they do not care who sells the property. Commissions on a property worth over 5M are most likely high, so they probably only share with very few real estate agents. JMHO MOO

You must know much more ethical real estate agents than I have.

I had one realtor who only brought me offers where he would collect the whole commission. I got rather annoyed with him & told him I was cancelling the listing - miraculously he had 3 different offers from other realtors that evening. Darn my properties were not worth millions.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/unethical-dealings-in-torontos-hot-real-estate-market-under-scrutiny/article32757695/

 

[Ritika]

I understood from a friend that is a realtor in the area that the realtor that found them was a male, not the listing agent, who was a lady. Not that it makes any difference I guess, still a horrible thing to have happen to someone.

The realtor Judi gottleib was a good friend of theirs. The way it was reported was that she had discovered them.
https://m.*************.com/billion...ion-suspicious-investigators-say_2389228.html

 

[Ritika]

The realtor Judi gottleib was a good friend of theirs. The way it was reported was that she had discovered them.
https://m.*************.com/billion...ion-suspicious-investigators-say_2389228.html

p.s.
For some reason the link is not pasting correctly.

 

[Hazel]

Aren’t most properties on what we call in the US MLS—- Multiple Listing Service, I think it is.

I don't know if the Sherman's house was listed online, MLS or sold-by-owner. I'll have to check Thread #1 for the link on the Toronto Life, that I think was published one day before they were found, so that would have been the Thursday Dec. 14th, so that wouldn't have had any bearing on the perp(s) finding out the house was for sale. I don't know if there was another public announcement as in being listed on MLS prior to that Toronto Life article.

Hopefully some other websleuth can help out with that information.

Found it, it's on the first page of Thread #1. House was listed on Remax, apparently the link worked on post #15, but the listing was already removed by the time the other Websleuths poster tried it.

Post #13 https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-1&p=13816694#post13816694


Post #15 https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-1&p=13816757#post13816757


Post #41 https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-1&p=13817402#post13817402


Post #59 https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-1&p=13817870#post13817870

 

[Hazel]

p.s.
For some reason the link is not pasting correctly.

I know right? Since it's a Closed thread it's very hard to quote. I have been able to quote manually on other occasions, but today I can't remember how it's done, and because I was trying to quote 4 I decided to just click on the top right of the post, where you see the number of the post, and then "copy and paste" the link from the browser.

 

[1&2&3]

In my area, to see homes in that top price range, one must be verified that they can afford it. This keeps the lookey-loos out, the would be perps, and any undesirables out.

On many newer alarm systems, one can set a code just for the realtors for example, or the nanny, the cleaning people etc.

 

[human]

Where I lived in MN, you had to be verified as well to see a high end house

 

[gregjrichards]

p.s.
For some reason the link is not pasting correctly.

Possibly a link that isn’t allowed as it is not MSM.

 

[Peace777]

Yes both targeted and murdered.

A little speculation and all my opinion:

IMO the pool scene was staged and bodies posed to look like a murder/suicide. If the killers were hired by Pharma, the motive may be connected to upcoming court battles, OR, the desire to eliminate or merge with Apotex. Big Pharma may have a 'money' interest in taking Apotex public, (which would not have happened with BS at the helm). Perhaps the Sherman's will was such that if Honey was left with the business, it would be up to her to determine the future of Apotex (and keep the business as it was - private).

Speculating further on motive, would Apotex role in upcoming trials (i.e. stealing generic drug formulations) put BS life at risk (and Honey's if she was aware of the theft narrative)? Killers could have been hired to take them both out of the picture.

The killer(s) had some way of knowing Barry and Honey's schedules and knew when to strike. IMO Honey's murder happened quickly near whichever entrance she used (first hands tied and then strangled with a ligature). Putting up a fight may have caused her to fall on her face, especially if her hands were tied behind her back. Then, IMO, she was moved to the pool area. IMO, it happened much the same way with Mr. Sherman. I don't believe Honey was 'beaten" but rather injured trying to get away from the killer(s).

If not Pharma, it is possible that the cousin was involved but it's almost too obvious.The motive would be revenge in that case, and presumably leave the debt the cousin owed (with both Barry and Honey out of the picture), in doubt.

Still leaning towards a professional hit hired by local or international pharma. JMO.

Both had left from Apotex building hmmm

 

[clearskies1]

Re Desai and BS:

"When Sherman was alive, Desai appeared to enjoy a close relationship with the company founder and chairman. In fact, as The Globe and Mail first reported last week, it was Sherman who provided the mortgage for the upscale Toronto home that Desai and his wife, Kalpna, purchased when they first moved to Canada in 2003. The loan document, filed at Toronto’s land registry office, shows that Sherman lent the couple $3.15 million—at zero interest, and without a regular payment schedule. The mortgage is due “on demand,” records show, and 15 years later no discharge has been filed, suggesting the loan remains outstanding."

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/busi...-shermans-company-stole-rivals-trade-secrets/

 

[Peace777]

Re Desai and BS:

"When Sherman was alive, Desai appeared to enjoy a close relationship with the company founder and chairman. In fact, as The Globe and Mail first reported last week, it was Sherman who provided the mortgage for the upscale Toronto home that Desai and his wife, Kalpna, purchased when they first moved to Canada in 2003. The loan document, filed at Toronto’s land registry office, shows that Sherman lent the couple $3.15 million—at zero interest, and without a regular payment schedule. The mortgage is due “on demand,” records show, and 15 years later no discharge has been filed, suggesting the loan remains outstanding."

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/busi...-shermans-company-stole-rivals-trade-secrets/

Did that close relationship go South when JD and his girlfriend got caught with "the goods"? The Teva "spying/stealing" supposedly started right around the time JD started working at Apotex if I'm not mistaken. Did BS hire JD on to do the spying/stealing of info/secrets from Teva? JD would have a motive to commit/have a murder done. (he was being used by BS? Why should he JD take the fall?) What's the penalties for stealing trade secrets I wonder? All JMO

 

[kiwi50]

Did that close relationship go South when JD and his girlfriend got caught with "the goods"? The Teva "spying/stealing" supposedly started right around the time JD started working at Apotex if I'm not mistaken. Did BS hire JD on to do the spying/stealing of info/secrets from Teva? JD would have a motive to commit/have a murder done. (he was being used by BS? Why should he JD take the fall?) What's the penalties for stealing trade secrets I wonder? All JMO

JD had worked for Apotex for years before the espionage, as did his wife.
I’m sure BS would have had no qualms about JD spying, it didn’t seem to hurt his career until BS was killed.

 

[clearskies1]

Did that close relationship go South when JD and his girlfriend got caught with "the goods"? The Teva "spying/stealing" supposedly started right around the time JD started working at Apotex if I'm not mistaken. Did BS hire JD on to do the spying/stealing of info/secrets from Teva? JD would have a motive to commit/have a murder done. (he was being used by BS? Why should he JD take the fall?) What's the penalties for stealing trade secrets I wonder? All JMO

I think Desai first joined Apotex in 2003. He was named president and CEO in August 2014. The lawsuit alleges that improper sharing of Teva information started in October 2014. Don't know how close Desai and BS were socially as time wore on, but it seems they lived fairly close to each other (about 2 miles).

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I thought KW said something about his house and a $2500/mo payment in the 5th Royal interview, maybe I am misremembering.

MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/
This article was first published in the July 2008 issue of Toronto Life

The judge still ruled in Sherman’s favour and Kerry had to surrender two business properties, a cottage and his home on Bellwoods Avenue. Kerry agreed to stay on as a tenant, paying $2,500 a month. Even this sum could be hard to come by.

He (Kerry) arrived at the Starbucks near his Trinity Bellwoods home, a tall, ruddy-faced, boyish-looking 46-year-old. He had just come from seeing his uncle, Wayne Rockcliffe, who had once again come to his aid, promising to cover Kerry’s $2,500 rent that month if needed.
-.-.-

Forty-three years ago, when they shared a limo at Beverley’s funeral, Rockcliffe said it would be a shame if the Orphan Children were adopted separately. Sherman’s reply, he claims, was, “So what? Worse things could happen.” Rockcliffe says he can’t forgive him. Sherman denies ever having said anything to that effect.