Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[Deleted member 102539]

Btw:

While he (BS) said he was still reluctant to talk to me, he didn’t explain why he’d changed his mind. Perhaps he was hoping to answer some of the accusations that had already appeared in print. Perhaps Honey had twisted his arm.

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/
2008

 

[nuff]

People are still going on about life insurance and suicide clauses?

And the earring(s). IMO irrelevant or, if relevant, we'll never know unless or until a trial. Very improbable it lay there for 6 weeks, whomever it belonged to.

 

[2Hope4]

Well whole human bodies are missed in searches, so it's possible an earring would be missed.

 

[Grey-St]

I think Desai first joined Apotex in 2003. He was named president and CEO in August 2014. The lawsuit alleges that improper sharing of Teva information started in October 2014. Don't know how close Desai and BS were socially as time wore on, but it seems they lived fairly close to each other (about 2 miles).

I think JD and BS were definately in cahoots. JMO.

 

[PaulR]

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/
This article was first published in the July 2008 issue of Toronto Life

The judge still ruled in Sherman’s favour and Kerry had to surrender two business properties, a cottage and his home on Bellwoods Avenue. Kerry agreed to stay on as a tenant, paying $2,500 a month. Even this sum could be hard to come by.

He (Kerry) arrived at the Starbucks near his Trinity Bellwoods home, a tall, ruddy-faced, boyish-looking 46-year-old. He had just come from seeing his uncle, Wayne Rockcliffe, who had once again come to his aid, promising to cover Kerry’s $2,500 rent that month if needed.
-.-.-

Forty-three years ago, when they shared a limo at Beverley’s funeral, Rockcliffe said it would be a shame if the Orphan Children were adopted separately. Sherman’s reply, he claims, was, “So what? Worse things could happen.” Rockcliffe says he can’t forgive him. Sherman denies ever having said anything to that effect.

Wayne was Beverly's sister - he's the family who wanted to adopt the kids, but Beverly said no because they weren't Jewish and she wanted them raised in a Jewish household.

I can kind of see where Barry is coming from. First, worse things can happen and just did - their parents both passed away, and Barry had just lost someone very close to him. ("You think being split up is bad? Try losing your dad and then your father figure in a few years!") As much as you'd love the kids to stay together, I'm not sure how many families out there would have been willing to take in four kids at the same time - that's a huge commitment, especially in an age when couples already had their own families. I'd rather the kids be split up but live close by, each with a loving family, than having them all taken in by the only person who said yes.

As an aside: Not forgiving something that someone said 43 years ago, when they were only 23 and just lost their second father? Seriously?

 

[Grey-St]

Wayne was Beverly's sister - he's the family who wanted to adopt the kids, but Beverly said no because they weren't Jewish and she wanted them raised in a Jewish household.

I can kind of see where Barry is coming from. First, worse things can happen and just did - their parents both passed away, and Barry had just lost someone very close to him. ("You think being split up is bad? Try losing your dad and then your father figure in a few years!") As much as you'd love the kids to stay together, I'm not sure how many families out there would have been willing to take in four kids at the same time - that's a huge commitment, especially in an age when couples already had their own families. I'd rather the kids be split up but live close by, each with a loving family, than having them all taken in by the only person who said yes.

As an aside: Not forgiving something that someone said 43 years ago, when they were only 23 and just lost their second father? Seriously?

Splitting the children up would have been a travesty. The risk was high, for reasons you have mentioned, and that's likely why Wayne said what he did. Put yourself in the shoes of these children. Could you ever imagine being split up from your siblings and being raised in different households than them? My stomach just turned at the thought. I would be thinking about them every minute of every day. Wondering what they are doing, how they are doing, missing them and wanting to be with them under the same roof, as it should be.

 

[PaulR]

Splitting the children up would have been a travesty. The risk was high, for reasons you have mentioned, and that's likely why Wayne said what he did. Put yourself in the shoes of these children. Could you ever imagine being split up from your siblings and being raised in different households than them? My stomach just turned at the thought. I would be thinking about them every minute of every day. Wondering what they are doing, how they are doing, missing them and wanting to be with them under the same roof, as it should be.

If you asked me as a kid if I would like to have been split up from one of my brothers, I would have given an enthusiastic yes and started packing my stuff. I have a friend who feels the same way about one of their siblings.

Of course Wayne wanted them, not doubting that, but Beverly was clear about her wishes, and it doesn't sound like Wayne was interested in converting to Judaism which would have solved the problem (and FYI I know a few people who have converted, men included!) So now you have to find a complete stranger who is willing to take in four kids, maybe in addition to their own family, maybe instead of having their own children. They are fortunate to have found someone, and what I've read about the father says he was an upstanding guy. But while your stomach churns at the thought of the kids being split up, I'd be concerned that they are picking the only couple who said "yes" instead of the best parents to raise them, even under different roofs.

Ideally they would have been raised under the same roof by their biological parents but an aneurysm and leukemia put an end to that, so we do the best we can.

If I was in Wayne's shoes, I would have converted to take in the kids, wouldn't you?

 

[dotr]

I think JD and BS were definately in cahoots. JMO.

Wonder how JD's wife felt about that?
imo, speculation.

 

[Grey-St]

If you asked me as a kid if I would like to have been split up from one of my brothers, I would have given an enthusiastic yes and started packing my stuff. I have a friend who feels the same way about one of their siblings.

Of course Wayne wanted them, not doubting that, but Beverly was clear about her wishes, and it doesn't sound like Wayne was interested in converting to Judaism which would have solved the problem (and FYI I know a few people who have converted, men included!) So now you have to find a complete stranger who is willing to take in four kids, maybe in addition to their own family, maybe instead of having their own children. They are fortunate to have found someone, and what I've read about the father says he was an upstanding guy. But while your stomach churns at the thought of the kids being split up, I'd be concerned that they are picking the only couple who said "yes" instead of the best parents to raise them, even under different roofs.

Ideally they would have been raised under the same roof by their biological parents but an aneurysm and leukemia put an end to that, so we do the best we can.

If I was in Wayne's shoes, I would have converted to take in the kids, wouldn't you?

Under these circumstances, I could not imagine any child wanting to be split up from their siblings, sorry.

Sudden death took the lives of these parents. Converting to Judaism is a lengthy process. If there was enough time, of course I would have. I wouldn't doubt that was something that crossed Wayne's mind, also.

In any sense, I don't know why Wayne's actions are the ones in question. If I was Beverly, I would have wanted my four children to go to my loving, responsible family members, and put religion aside.

 

[minorone]

In my area, to see homes in that top price range, one must be verified that they can afford it. This keeps the lookey-loos out, the would be perps, and any undesirables out.

On many newer alarm systems, one can set a code just for the realtors for example, or the nanny, the cleaning people etc.

All builders use realtors type lock boxes to provide access to trades and marketers. KW being a site supervisor for a custom home builders would regularly use realtors lock boxes & have access to the job sites & properties with realtors lock boxes installed. I was thinking that you cannot always trust the people that have access to the code/pin number/id card/smartphone for the realtor lock box.

I have friends who do custom home building and have had materials go missing from a job site. All plumbing materials delivered to one job site disappeared that same evening & they were able to trace who had accessed the premises after the delivery. They advised the trades that the materials better return or the police would be contacted. The materials returned to the job site the following night.

 

[JDG]

Under these circumstances, I could not imagine any child wanting to be split up from their siblings, sorry.

Sudden death took the lives of these parents. Converting to Judaism is a lengthy process. If there was enough time, of course I would have. I wouldn't doubt that was something that crossed Wayne's mind, also.

In any sense, I don't know why Wayne's actions are the ones in question. If I was Beverly, I would have wanted my four children to go to my loving, responsible family members, and put religion aside.

Possibly, Beverly didn't view her brother through the same lens that you do?
I think, all these years later and without knowing ALL of the circumstances, we should not be second guessing the wishes of a dying mother.

I know next to nothing about her brother, but Im sure that if she thought he was suitable, she would have chosen him and, as you say, put aside the religious aspect.

All I read was that he was prepared to move into HER house and send the boys to UCC. Perhaps, she saw him as circling in the hopes of getting what would have been a large inheritance. Im basing that on something that said the boys got approx $300,000+ each as they came of age, so a significant amount of money.

And, obviously her chosen religion was seen to be very important to her to pass on to the children.

 

[human]

Wayne was Beverly's sister - he's the family who wanted to adopt the kids, but Beverly said no because they weren't Jewish and she wanted them raised in a Jewish household.

I can kind of see where Barry is coming from. First, worse things can happen and just did - their parents both passed away, and Barry had just lost someone very close to him. ("You think being split up is bad? Try losing your dad and then your father figure in a few years!") As much as you'd love the kids to stay together, I'm not sure how many families out there would have been willing to take in four kids at the same time - that's a huge commitment, especially in an age when couples already had their own families. I'd rather the kids be split up but live close by, each with a loving family, than having them all taken in by the only person who said yes.

As an aside: Not forgiving something that someone said 43 years ago, when they were only 23 and just lost their second father? Seriously?

Interesting point . I wonder if he collects injustices as well

 

[human]

Possibly, Beverly didn't view her brother through the same lens that you do?
I think, all these years later and without knowing ALL of the circumstances, we should be judging the wishes of a dying mother.

I know next to nothing about her brother, but Im sure that if she thought he was suitable, she might have chosen him and, as you say, put aside the religious aspect.

All I read was that he was prepared to move into HER house and send the boys to UCC. Perhaps, she saw him as circling in the hopes of getting what would have been a large inheritance. Im basing that on something that said the boys got approx $300,000+ each as they came of age, so a significant amount of money.

And, obviously her chosen religion was seen to be very important to her to pass on to the children.

Intersting re the circling. Hm. What would $300,000 be in today’s money? I bet at least a million

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nnector-with-best-rolodex-in-the-country.html

She’d shun expensive restaurants for meetings over a bagel or omelettes at United Bakers in Lawrence Plaza. She’d rent “some little putt-putt” car when the couple went down to Florida, Sinclair said. Honey would wave it off if prodded, saying she’d asked for the cheapest.

In the days before she died, Honey was in touch with many of her friends, chatting about Kaelen’s upcoming wedding and the new baby in the family. She sent a last congratulatory email to Aubrey on Dec. 12, about a donation he’d made.

She spoke to Sinclair that day to confirm dinner plans. Those plans never came to fruition.


As the Florida trip was coming - had the cheap little "putt-putt car" been delivered already ....? What if the murderers were some additional passengers knowing Sherman's usual procedure before vacation?

 

[JDG]

Intersting re the circling. Hm. What would $300,000 be in today’s money? I bet at least a million

Im sure L Winter left quite a generous estate, what with insurance, a privately owned company (Empire) that AFAIK was doing well at the time of his death. I would think it would be at least a million each, if not more.

Im pretty sure the Winter parents had had discussions about how to prepare for the children, with Beverly being ill and without knowing he was going to have a sudden, unexpected death. If it were me, Id be asking about step parents, education, potential backup parents, religious teachings and how L Winter could 'handle' most eventualities with four little boys. Your own impending death forces those discussions and whatever Beverly decided would have been in agreement with L Winters stated wishes, IMO.

We only have the word of the disgruntled uncle Wayne and very unhappy Kerry Winter to go on, all these decades later.

 

[JDG]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nnector-with-best-rolodex-in-the-country.html

She’d shun expensive restaurants for meetings over a bagel or omelettes at United Bakers in Lawrence Plaza. She’d rent “some little putt-putt” car when the couple went down to Florida, Sinclair said. Honey would wave it off if prodded, saying she’d asked for the cheapest.

In the days before she died, Honey was in touch with many of her friends, chatting about Kaelen’s upcoming wedding and the new baby in the family. She sent a last congratulatory email to Aubrey on Dec. 12, about a donation he’d made.

She spoke to Sinclair that day to confirm dinner plans. Those plans never came to fruition.


As the Florida trip was coming - had the cheap little "putt-putt car" been delivered already ....? What if the murderers were some additional passengers knowing Sherman's usual procedure before vacation?

I think the cheap putt putt would be picked up once they arrived in Florida?? IMO

It refers to a rental car to use while down there. IMO

 

[PaulR]

Intersting re the circling. Hm. What would $300,000 be in today’s money? I bet at least a million

$350K in 1967 Canadian dollars is $2.5M today: http://inflationcalculator.ca/

That's just inflation adjusted, put into a bank account. Even invested conservatively it would be worth much more than that.

 

[PaulR]

Possibly, Beverly didn't view her brother through the same lens that you do?
I think, all these years later and without knowing ALL of the circumstances, we should not be second guessing the wishes of a dying mother.

I know next to nothing about her brother, but Im sure that if she thought he was suitable, she would have chosen him and, as you say, put aside the religious aspect.

All I read was that he was prepared to move into HER house and send the boys to UCC. Perhaps, she saw him as circling in the hopes of getting what would have been a large inheritance. Im basing that on something that said the boys got approx $300,000+ each as they came of age, so a significant amount of money.

And, obviously her chosen religion was seen to be very important to her to pass on to the children.

OK, maybe this is getting into Beverly's issues, but - her house? It's a house. She was dying. You can't take it with you, and we don't preserve houses as shrines. Either you leave the house to family who is taking care of the kids and have them move in - probably less disruptive to the kids, and maybe better since the house already had bedrooms for all of them and they could stay in the same schools and have the same friends in class and in the neighborhood - or you ask for the house to be sold. If she really wanted the house to go to her kids eventually, you can set up a life estate where her brother could live in the house until he passed and then it would go to the kids, or set up some kind of trust where everyone could live in the house until all the kids graduated high school and then they'd figure out what to do with it.

I don't know if "perhaps she saw him circling" is how she felt, I certainly hope not because if she was not trusting of Barry's offer to run the business for the benefit of the kids, and not trusting of her brother to raise the kids in the house where they were already growing up, I don't think that says as much about Barry and Wayne as much as it does about Beverly.

 

[clearskies1]

Wondering if JD's departure from Apotex was in the works before the killings. JMO.

 

[human]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nnector-with-best-rolodex-in-the-country.html

She’d shun expensive restaurants for meetings over a bagel or omelettes at United Bakers in Lawrence Plaza. She’d rent “some little putt-putt” car when the couple went down to Florida, Sinclair said. Honey would wave it off if prodded, saying she’d asked for the cheapest.

In the days before she died, Honey was in touch with many of her friends, chatting about Kaelen’s upcoming wedding and the new baby in the family. She sent a last congratulatory email to Aubrey on Dec. 12, about a donation he’d made.

She spoke to Sinclair that day to confirm dinner plans. Those plans never came to fruition.


As the Florida trip was coming - had the cheap little "putt-putt car" been delivered already ....? What if the murderers were some additional passengers knowing Sherman's usual procedure before vacation?

I think the car was in Florida. I imagine they fly down there