CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

[NaanOfYourBusiness]

Well, it was actually theorised here first many threads back when this started that these 2 weren’t victims, but the actual culprits.

yup. i mentioned i had that feeling here on WS when these boys were still considered 'missing'. I felt the RCMP had them i.d. as suspects by the way they were communicating with the press . it didn't have the usual elements of a traditional 'missing persons' case .. then sure enough, less than 24 hours after I posted that the RCMP changed there status from "MISSING" to "SUSPECTS".

 

[Moonlitnight]

I have wondered too if they never left Meadow Lake and had someone else drive the Rav to Gillam and torch it. Were they actually seen at Gillam or just the Rav? JMO

I have been trying to find this out for a while. Were they actually "seen" in Gillam? We are told there were "two sitings" but where? Both of them torching the Rav4 makes no sense. I think it was a decoy and they have long since gone with their accomplice who "inadvertently" drove them out of the area, or drove into the area alone specifically to torch the vehicle. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

It prolongs 'the adventure'.

I'd be surprised if they had help, maybe there was a gaming buddy, but if they got out I'm guessing it was a stroke of luck and they've found an empty cabin somewhere. I don't put much faith in their outdoorsmen skills after hearing the bogged Rav4 report.

If they had any plan, I don’t think it involved getting identified as suspects. They might’ve thought the burned truck would become untraceable.

 

[Moonlitnight]

There are 2 sightings of them in Gillam, before the Rav was torched.

Where were these sitings? Were they in a store? By the side of the road? Does anyone know? Did this info come from LE?

 

[Optics]

I can understand holdbacks to the general public IF the victims knew their attacker(S) but this situation was pretty clear that this was not the case. The lack of warning proved to quickly and easily target another innocent person.

To put things into perspective the Liard murders and the Dease Lake murder which happened 4 days later were 510kms or for USA members 317 miles Apart! To paint a visual the distance between the two is like the distance between a murder in Redding, California and another murder in Los Angeles, California, except there are no McDonalds or Starbucks or virtually anything between our northern locations. Those of us who have lived up there, been on those highways know how extremely remote it is up there.The immediate news of a murder of 2 people at Liard went out IMMEDIATELY through out my whole province. For those of us also following the Mackenzie Lueck case she went missing and was murdered in a city! and look how long it took to track her down.

 

[LoisLane]

I also feel that claim was intriguing. I feel like if that is true and if it were one of the suspects, one hitchhiker limping playing on sympathy getting picked up and a second in the bush rushing the driver, they could have kidnapped someone, gained a vehicle, killed the driver, dumped the body and could be back in BC, or wherever. If the person had no family etc, who knows where they could be.

This is how I see them ambushing from the side of the road. Would also explain why the one wears camo. Silly shirt guy “appears” harmless hailing help or thumbing on the road and then camo dude jumps out.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I hope you are right and I agree with you about no answers. Hope we are at a turning point.

But I have to say as a non Canadian that I'm surprised that the the lack of outrage isn't more widespread, even on social media. Haven't heard a peep from politicians, press, mayors etc.

The lack of US press on the ground in northern canada following the story of a US Citizen gunned down while on vacation is also stunning and surprising. None of the major networks did an update today and the story seems to have gone silent which was disappointing. The major networks seem to simply be recycling AP/Reuters reports rather than doing any investigative work.

RCMP said early on that they would be briefing the FBI on the Deese/Fowler case. But with the extensive resources of the FBI why is there no update as to whether they are participating in the investigation? Even the way the involvement of the Aussie Detectives was postured was as 'family liasons' rather than contributing members of an investigative team. Why? Did the Aussies have nothing to add of value to the process? Is the RCMP unwilling to work with outside law enforcement agencies?

Tourism is a big industry in Canada and for this reason alone I would have thought that RCMP would invite outside assistance but so far it hasn't been seen other than the Canadian Air Force today in Gillam. The idea that peak tourist season is in full swing and 2 teenagers passed through 3 provinces with no alerts from RCMP to people on the roads that might not be following the news is something that I think few will forget. People have just been lucky that unsuspecting tourists have not been seen to be targeted en masse.

The territory of the search is enormous and the terrain punishing so I hope that the RCMP has the resources it needs to effectively find 2 6'4" needles in a very large haystack!

There is no outrage in Canada because Canadians actually understand the terrain and the size of the country.

If American news outlets aren’t all over this, it’s because they are preoccupied with Trump and two American teenagers who have allegedly killed a cop in Italy, neither of these being stories that require trying to find people in a vast wilderness. Besides, American journalists probably find a free trip to Rome more enticing than a free trip to Gillam.

The RCMP haven’t brought in “help” from US and Australian police because the RCMP know what they are dealing with in terms of geography, have the resources they need, can draw on more resources if needed (there are 110o RCMP officers in Manitoba alone), and because of one other small matter - foreign police have no jurisdiction in Canada, any more than Canadian police have jurisdiction in the US or Australia.

But hey, bring in Crocodile Dundee, who no doubt will sort this out in a jiffy

 

[afitzy]

I found an article that's kind of interesting about the differences.

This article makes me think either they're dead or they could be serial killers. The fact that they don't know their victims is also interesting.

Why Spree Killers Are Not Serial Killers

Interesting article.

It might be hard to tell which they are at this point as we don't know why there has been radio silence for 4 days or so. We had report that one of the suspects was limping so perhaps this necessitated a recovery break. Or, they could be dead? Or, as some have suspected they escaped from Gillam and are now far away planning their next crime.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have been trying to find this out for a while. Were they actually "seen" in Gillam? We are told there were "two sitings" but where? Both of them torching the Rav4 makes no sense. I think it was a decoy and they have long since gone with their accomplice who "inadvertently" drove them out of the area, or drove into the area alone specifically to torch the vehicle. JMO

The alleged murders of the innocent victims makes no sense either. I don’t think logic is applicable.

 

[1987]

If they had any plan, I don’t think it involved getting identified as suspects. They might’ve thought the burned truck would become untraceable.

with three dead already I think they thought they would be thought dead also, assumed to also be victims.

 

[Optics]

I don't have a link, but maybe someone else does. I do believe it was reported that the guy that saw the smoke, it took him 45 minutes to find where it was coming from. So that would mean from the time they torched it, they had minimum 45 minutes to drive away if they had another vehicle.

Does someone know where I can find that? It was either in an article or a FB/twitter post?

ETA: Welcome to Websleuths

No, he spotted dark smoke from his home which is I think on the Fox Cree Nation reservation. He drove down there reported it and it took 45 minutes for police to get there. (The Rav4 was burnt approx 70 kilometers northeast from Gillam.) His name is Billy Bready if I recall.

 

[srper2]

Does anyone have any better information from this woman's report? There are very few details (again) provided by police. 'Heated exchange' with mystery man before couple found dead on highway
If there was a "mystery man" seen arguing with Chynna and Lucas on the night of their death, what did he look like, did he have a car? Have I missed this info here or is this "mystery man" the drawing with the cap that has been made public? Why are the police not also actively searching for him, as he was the last probably seen with these two murder victims and they were seen having what seemed to be an altercation? The police could also be searching security footage of him and tracking him down. If he has done nothing wrong, why, after realising that he was seen on the highway and seeing his sketch all over the news with a description (possibly) of the car he was driving, has he not come forward?

 

[Trooper]

I hope you are right and I agree with you about no answers. Hope we are at a turning point.


RCMP said early on that they would be briefing the FBI on the Deese/Fowler case. But with the extensive resources of the FBI why is there no update as to whether they are participating in the investigation? Even the way the involvement of the Aussie Detectives was postured was as 'family liasons' rather than contributing members of an investigative team. Why? Did the Aussies have nothing to add of value to the process? Is the RCMP unwilling to work with outside law enforcement agencies?

Edited by me for brevity.

awww. ..fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate.. I would think any contribution the NSW police could make would be of a profiling, technical nature, which is most likely firmly ensconced. The NSW police would have utterly , absolutely no jurisdiction in any province or territory in Canada, no authority to question , investigate, adjudicate, or evaluate a damn thing. They really are there, and there is only two of them, as de facto family liason for the Fowler clan. That is all.

And that is a tremendous example of international co-op by the RCMP, which has a solid and enduring history of responsible and successful liason, with all Australian police, both state and Federal, over a century of it, and in particular the Western Division (Vancouver) of the RCMP in the matter of Regina V Brett Cowan.

 

[gitana1]

If they had any plan, I don’t think it involved getting identified as suspects. They might’ve thought the burned truck would become untraceable.

That's what I thought. They felt burning it would cover their tracks.

 

[minn77]

Is it at all possible their truck accidentally started on fire. My parents went to alaska recently and a campground squirrel pulled insulation from under the hood and packed it on the manifold..next morning..next stop smoke pouring out from under the hood and my dad being an experienced mechanic knew exactly where it was coming from and removed the smouldering insulation.. these two wouldnt have had a clue. Would explain, lack of clothes, not taking their computer...backtracking to the third murder location and needing another vehicle

 

[Thinkzerz]

So seems like they wanted to be considered” missing “ in the beginning. Why? Because now with them being “quiet” they seem to have what they wanted in the first place. Which would be “missing, not found” JMO

 

[Xyzzia]

Continuing above thought process ... let's consider how Lucas/Chynna met their tragic fate.

Their blue van became unusable sometime during the afternoon of July 14, right on the Alaska Highway.

Lucas was a decent mechanic, and diagnosed the problem. He decided to let the flooded engine dry up over several hours. He declined help from at least one mechanic.

While they were waiting, our young men, with significant criminal potential, got on the same Alaska Highway.

The young men last Friday. The young couple left Saturday. So they both ended up on the same highway headed north. The young couple stopped and got gas at Fort Nelson. So somewhere along the line between when they both entered the Alaskan Highway North the two groups might have met up. Perhaps even at the gas station. And I know there was video of the gas station but maybe they met before the gas station or after the gas station stop. So the two groups made of got friendly. And then when Lucas and China broke down and we're on the side of the road.... Kam and Bryer may have shown up at night time. They could have had their truck parked somewhere along the bush and went by foot to the van.
Perhaps they were 'stalking' the couple.
I can't remember if I read anywhere about any blood in the van but the window was shot from the inside out word. So maybe the two young men were in the van with Chynna and Lucas. And then it went down.

I don't recall getting it any information prior to what both sets of people were doing before the murder scene. Other than the video of Chynna and Lucas at the gas station. But what about Kam and Bryer since they left Port Alberni?

 

[bcsleuth01]

This is possibly what you’re thinking of -

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799
“When Beardy saw thick, black smoke that evening, he couldn't have guessed the charred ride represented a significant clue in the hunt for two suspects that's sent fear rippling through the region.

He is spooked by the thought that fugitives suspected of killing three people would have been close to him.

"We sat here for, like, 45 minutes before anyone got here. They could have been sitting in the bush watching us," Beardy said Thursday.

Even if they just came out of the bush … we would have probably just helped them out, because it's just pretty much the way we all are around here."

Beardy and his family were the first people to find the burning SUV linked to McLeod and Schmegelsky. He reported it to RCMP, and then Manitoba conservation officers once they became concerned the fire would spread...”

I was looking but couldn’t find it again, thank goodness you did.

There were pictures online of the RAV 4 fully engulfed, the fellow in this article found it very soon after it was lit afire.

So assumingly, since the fire was big, and the SUV was still engulfed in flames, and the witnesses sat there for 45 minutes after he found it, the suspects couldn’t have gotten very far. That said I’ve never seen a vehicle burn from start to finish.

So ya, who was travelling that road that evening? I live in a very remote area and I’m on local logging roads a lot. I would presume, given the small population of the area, someone local who travels that road a lot would notice an unfamiliar vehicle with two lost city boys behind the wheel. If this road is used for work, do workers use VHF radios to call out their position to avoid accidents? I’d guess the suspects didn’t have a radio. Furthering the chance of someone remembering seeing them.

Long story short, with 70km of dirt road, and locals travelling it, and no real place to turn off, you would have to think someone would have spotted them and remembered seeing them. Despite them not having been reported in the news yet.

 

[Sillybilly]

(Image from July 23 CBC article)


No big deal but I notice the driver of the Rav4 could have a white t-shirt on. In the Meadow Lake pic of them in the store, Schmegelsky is wearing a white t-shirt under his camo jacket, while McLeod is just in the black t-shirt.

It's not really significant, but could mean that although BS doesn't have a licence he could be doing some of the driving.

 

[Cdndadeh]

Sorry if this has been discussed at length before. But one main thing that doesn’t sit right with me is the early events. The first two murders occur then 4 days later the boys are still only several hours away from first crime scene, they commit a third murder and then book it east covering three provinces in as many days??? My guess is they had the camper so they could bunker down until supplies ran low probably in an effort to conserve gas... and then they seized the opportunity to seek out a new victim/ride. If this is the case it’s pretty important because they had three days in between where they would have planned what’s next... if they took the time to calculate those plans and execute them, then everything they’ve done since is likely as planned. The stop at co-op, burning the rav4. I for one don’t think there’s a chance in Haiti these boys are dead. They’re alive and nowhere near Gillam.