Casey "really did" expect her mom to stand by her, Here's why:

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I'm thinking maybe ICA put the ladder there later in case she ended up having to go with the drowning fable. Thoughts?

Or ICA could have put it there whatever day it was......during the 31 days that CA was bugging her to come home so she could see Caylee.....Just to be able to say "Well, we were there today and went swimming".
 
Time will tell if CA will continue to tell the truth and not cover for ICA. I hope so! Also, I can't help thinking what CA wanted to talk to ICA about on that visit ICA refused on mother's day weekend and why she wanted to see her (?). She was going to meet her alone and for what purpose I wonder?:waitasec:

kinda makes you wonder, why did Cindy go and what the hell was ica thinking, not talking to her, since SHE needed CA a whole lot.

otoh, imo CA has already crossed the bridge. there is no going back in her non support.

i hope.
 
This doesn't have anything to do with the subject of this thread, but I have to say that the video of Casey when she got arrested and taken to jail reminds me so much of Diane Downs. I recall Downs strutting to the bus in her outrageous sexy outfit when she was being transported to prison, and I see Casey strutting to the car with the cuffs on, and the same attitude from both.

Yes, there are evil women, Casey is one of them.

If you are talking about the video when ICA was 1st arrested (wearing the blue hoody she bought with AH's money) I total agree. I was just watching that video last night and that sickening smile and smirk on her face! Evil!
 
My apologies ahead of time, but there's no other way to explain it than to be graphic:

The chloroform/duct tape "accidental" theory (something bad happened): KC needs sitter. Chloroforms Caylee. Places duct tape on mouth to keep her quiet in case she wakes up, and leaves her in the trunk of her car. Caylee semi-wakes-up and she is nauseous, vomits and aspirates. Jimmy Hendrix died that way. So did Janis Joplin.... even though they DIDN'T have their mouths covered with duct tape. Yes, they weren't "chloroformed", but they overdosed and overdoses make you vomit. Maybe Casey used a bit too much chloroform - this time.

I don't know about that because Caylee's nose was covered as well? Unless that piece was put on at a later time along with the heart sticker?
 
Okay, I have no idea where to put this, but it's about CA's testimony. I'm thinking I heard it right.

She said at one point that, when ICA was 16 she had a Winnie The Pooh themed bedroom. She went on to say they used many of the items to furnish Caylee's nursery. Okay, I've seen kids when they are in their early twenties collect things from shows they watched when they were young (my daughter found a Care Bear teeshirt and still likes Hello Kitty although her own daughter is not that interested in the Sanrio stuff). I knew lots of them at college age who were into all the Disney Princess characters and had them in dorm rooms. At that age, they are newly grown up but have the room to feel nostalgic about their favorite childhood characters. But at 16 or even at tweenage, most of them are trying desperately to have grown-up rooms. And Pooh characters are so juvenile they are found on items in the infant sections of JC Penney and Target.

I don't get it. I cannot imagine CA forcing her 16-year old to have a Pooh room and why on earth would a high-school junior want Winnie the Pooh all over? However, if it's true, and they did use many of the items to furnish Caylee's nursery, that's a whole other reason Miss Center of the Universe would hold a grudge against her mother, for taking "her" possessions and giving them to the baby. Yikes!

That's what I have been wanting to post. People are saying oh I know so and so who likes Pooh. So do I...she's in her 30s and she collects Pooh stuff. But developmentally first you need to go through the rejection of childish things. Pooh is appropriate for a small child, or as a collectible to a grown up, or like you said nostalgic for a college student, but at 16 a normal room involves posters and a huge mess, with a closed door.
 
I've been thinking about this a lot. I've been trying to figure out what was told to the Anthony's and when.

According to the Anthony's attorney, the Anthony's have known that Caylee died in the pool since February. Notice that Cindy says she stopped looking for Zanny six weeks ago. Six weeks ago would have been April 16th, 2011. So what was told to the Anthony's in February that made Cindy still search for Zanny??

I believe that Jose brought them in and told them that they had no choice but to go with an accidental drowning. That it would be the only way to get Casey out of this. I believe that they allowed the Anthony's to still believe that this whole Zanny the nanny story was true and that they were only going with this story because the world was against Casey. Cindy and George would go along with something like that because they have been made to believe that everyone is out to get them.

During the March hearings is when all this doctor mess came up. The defense wanting their doctors to testify in the guilt phase. I believe it was in April that the State tried to take their depositions and then wanted to have their own experts examine Casey and the defense took them off their witness list.

I believe this is when the State got into contact with the Anthony's attorney and it would fall in line with the "six weeks." The Anthony attorney said that he read the doctors reports and said that Casey was really disturbed.

I think this is when the Anthony's realized that Casey killed Caylee and that she was going to bring them down with her. Cindy stopped looking for Zanny. They were not going to go down in flames with her.

Yes, Casey thought that Cindy would always cover for her... but she took it too far this time. Way too far.
 
June 17 apparently and yes she did tell her coworkers.

Hmm. I think CA would have noticed it if it were still on there on the 16th. Plus if good old ex-le George were going to cover up a drowning, he would have removed the ladder. Sounds like ICA put the ladder there on Tuesday in an effort to throw things off.

ETA: What am I saying? I'm acting like this is anything the least bit credible. :eek:
 
I really think this shows what a sociopath Casey is. She doesn't understand that there is a line that normal people won't cross, or at least a line that her own mother won't cross. Cindy is supposed to be so loyal to Casey that no matter what Casey does, Casey expects Cindy to totally destroy her life rather than Cindy destroy her loyalty to Casey. Casey expected Cindy to always choose her over George and even Lee, I suspect. That is sociopathic thinking. It's always about me, they owe their lives to me, how dare they not support me. And that's with ANYTHING. There is no line that anyone should have in the mind of the sociopathic person. Or in Casey's case, her mother shouldn't have had any limit to her love and support of her. She was depending on her mother getting up on that stand and defending Casey no matter what. She couldn't understand that her mother is a narcisstic person who has a limit that Casey forced out of her. Casey expected her mother to love her more than Cindy loves family appearances.

Now, I have to admit that Cindy enabled Casey to think this way. She supported Casey over Caylee for three years. Casey had to think that mom would go down to save her. After all, she kills Caylee and what does mom do but support Casey over Caylee. Casey really believed that she had won, that her competition was gone and that GA and especially CA really did love her more than they loved Caylee. I can see this leading Casey to think she could do or say what she wanted and CA would still love and support her no matter what. After all, killing is worse than molestation - killers get longer sentences, sometimes even the death penalty while child molesters serve shorter sentences and are able to have lives outside of prison to the point that they usually offend again. Society as whole deems killers to more worth prison time and death than child molestors, and Cindy supported Casey in Caylee's death, so Casey would think that her mother would support her calling dad and brother child molestors. I mean, in Casey saying to Cindy, "You don't know what my role was?" was Casey essentially saying, "Come on mom, you know I killed Caylee." In her sociopathic mind, if she could get away with murder with her mom, she could get away with anything with her mom.

But Cindy does not love Casey more than she loves herself and family appearances. Casey forgot that her mother is narcisstic in nature, and for Casey to ask her to have everyone believe that she was married to a child molester and gave birth to a child molester was too much for Cindy. Casey was asking Cindy to go beyond her own line and still love and support Casey. Judging by Cindy in court on Saturday, Cindy is not willing, was never willing, to do that. I think Cindy not looking at Casey was a sign that Casey had finally gone too far. And what does Casey do, not get sad and truthfully teary eyed that mom doesn't love her anymore (depression, not anger), she throws a fit like a five year old like how DARE mom doesn't support me and love me over dad! How DARE she not look at me! How DARE mom not be loyal to ME!

It makes me wonder how much Casey assured her attorneys that Cindy would go along with what they were doing no matter what, and her attorneys, Baez in particular, agreed with her. He didn't make that opening statement on the hope for Cindy and maybe even George would go along with it. He made that opening statement believing that Cindy, and maybe even George (because of that statement on record that he would do anything to help Casey) would help to support it no matter how crazy it was. He had to because with even with George not supporting that OS, Cindy at least had to because it COMPLETELY falls apart without at least Cindy's support.

Wow, it's truly a dysfunctional situation - the sociopath expects the narcissist to not be narcissist and support the sociopath over the rest of the dysfunctional family. You just can't make this stuff up!!!!
 
Didn't take it to be snarky or judgmental....although I think they would be happy to be broke WITH Caylee being alive.
But with ICA not in the house, I imagine the dynamics are a lot more peaceful. It seems like GA and CA are still working on their marriage and it seems that they are winning the battle.

I see two people still in love, I am sure ICA was the problem between them.IMO ICA was the cause of their problems.My grandson's mom is a lot like ICA minus the stealing.We almost broke up because of the h3ll she caused our family,but I (all of us)took a lot of crap from her.We all knew he was being taken care of,because we did 99% of taking care of him.She would leave him in his crib,no diaper changes,no bottles,for 8 hours when she was alone home with him.After we always made sure 1 of us was home to take care of him.
 
I don't understand. Cindy testified about the pool ladder AFTER KC's melt down in court. Her testimony right before that was light and not really significant. I think it was Cindy's walk away without looking at her and hugging George that sent her over the edge.

I have to wait for CA's entire testimony before I know for sure she has decided to tell truth. I want to hear her say the car smelled ofndeath NOT pizza.

BBM: Exactly ... I agree !

If Cindy stands by her "infamous" 9-1-1 call that it "smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" and NOT rotten pizza ... it will be OVER for ICA !

It will prove that FINALLY, Cindy has had enough of ICA's "fairy tales" ...

It will prove that CA has FINALLY accepted "the fact" that ICA put Caylee in the trunk of her car AND murdered her granddaughter.

MOO MOO and MOO ...
 
My apologies ahead of time, but there's no other way to explain it than to be graphic:

The chloroform/duct tape "accidental" theory (something bad happened): KC needs sitter. Chloroforms Caylee. Places duct tape on mouth to keep her quiet in case she wakes up, and leaves her in the trunk of her car. Caylee semi-wakes-up and she is nauseous, vomits and aspirates. Jimmy Hendrix died that way. So did Janis Joplin.... even though they DIDN'T have their mouths covered with duct tape. Yes, they weren't "chloroformed", but they overdosed and overdoses make you vomit. Maybe Casey used a bit too much chloroform - this time.

That is a darned good theory! I have often wondered how often KC might have put Caylee to sleep in the trunk of the car. IIRC the parking area at TL's apartment was in the back alongside a grassy/wooded area that was a ways removed from the apts. Possibly ICA figured if Caylee woke up, having tape over the mouth, nobody would hear her moaning. She may have stuffed her full of cough syrup, benedryl, AND chloroform....the chloroform having immediate effects and the other two having more long lasting effects.
 
I really think this shows what a sociopath Casey is. She doesn't understand that there is a line that normal people won't cross, or at least a line that her own mother won't cross. Cindy is supposed to be so loyal to Casey that no matter what Casey does, Casey expects Cindy to totally destroy her life rather than Cindy destroy her loyalty to Casey. Casey expected Cindy to always choose her over George and even Lee, I suspect. That is sociopathic thinking. It's always about me, they owe their lives to me, how dare they not support me. And that's with ANYTHING. There is no line that anyone should have in the mind of the sociopathic person. Or in Casey's case, her mother shouldn't have had any limit to her love and support of her. She was depending on her mother getting up on that stand and defending Casey no matter what. She couldn't understand that her mother is a narcisstic person who has a limit that Casey forced out of her. Casey expected her mother to love her more than Cindy loves family appearances.

Now, I have to admit that Cindy enabled Casey to think this way. She supported Casey over Caylee for three years. Casey had to think that mom would go down to save her. After all, she kills Caylee and what does mom do but support Casey over Caylee. Casey really believed that she had won, that her competition was gone and that GA and especially CA really did love her more than they loved Caylee. I can see this leading Casey to think she could do or say what she wanted and CA would still love and support her no matter what. After all, killing is worse than molestation - killers get longer sentences, sometimes even the death penalty while child molesters serve shorter sentences and are able to have lives outside of prison to the point that they usually offend again. Society as whole deems killers to more worth prison time and death than child molestors, and Cindy supported Casey in Caylee's death, so Casey would think that her mother would support her calling dad and brother child molestors. I mean, in Casey saying to Cindy, "You don't know what my role was?" was Casey essentially saying, "Come on mom, you know I killed Caylee." In her sociopathic mind, if she could get away with murder with her mom, she could get away with anything with her mom.

But Cindy does not love Casey more than she loves herself and family appearances. Casey forgot that her mother is narcisstic in nature, and for Casey to ask her to have everyone believe that she was married to a child molester and gave birth to a child molester was too much for Cindy. Casey was asking Cindy to go beyond her own line and still love and support Casey. Judging by Cindy in court on Saturday, Cindy is not willing, was never willing, to do that. I think Cindy not looking at Casey was a sign that Casey had finally gone too far. And what does Casey do, not get sad and truthfully teary eyed that mom doesn't love her anymore (depression, not anger), she throws a fit like a five year old like how DARE mom doesn't support me and love me over dad! How DARE she not look at me! How DARE mom not be loyal to ME!

It makes me wonder how much Casey assured her attorneys that Cindy would go along with what they were doing no matter what, and her attorneys, Baez in particular, agreed with her. He didn't make that opening statement on the hope for Cindy and maybe even George would go along with it. He made that opening statement believing that Cindy, and maybe even George (because of that statement on record that he would do anything to help Casey) would help to support it no matter how crazy it was. He had to because with even with George not supporting that OS, Cindy at least had to because it COMPLETELY falls apart without at least Cindy's support.

Wow, it's truly a dysfunctional situation - the sociopath expects the narcissist to not be narcissist and support the sociopath over the rest of the dysfunctional family. You just can't make this stuff up!!!!

BBM :sigh:
 
I think since that hearing where CA testified that she sprayed the car with febreze, and when she left the stand, KC acknowledged her. It looked like she mouthed the words 'thank you' but I can't be sure. CA said 'I love you' to her. However, since six weeks ago, things have changed. JMO, KC thought CA would testify that she may left the ladder on the pool, and also not stand behind GA regarding the abuse allegations. My opinion is that the A's are possibly starting to see truth. CA wasn't going to stand behind her daughter and try to protect her anymore.

Many times CA has tried desperately to catch KC's attention in court before KC has been escorted out of the courtroom and KC wouldn't give her the time of day. CA tried to visit her on mother's day and KC wouldn't see her. JMO but it has to be heartbreaking to know that your daughter is accusing your family of horrible allegations, and they are not true. KC is a narcissistic sociopath who went into a fit of rage when her mother turned the tables on her, and decided to tell the truth. JMO
 
Thank you! I've been thinking about this since the film of CA and GA walking hand in hand into the courthouse. CA and GA were together long before ICA came along. GA spoke fondly/wistfully of when he first met CA.

Marriages begin with a couple, children are added, and then the couple regroups when the children are grown and on their own. I think CA and GA have done this in spite of everything. Regardless of their past difficulties, I think they are each others support and comfort.

ICA didn't expect this to happen. She thought she would drive them apart. She's amazed that her mom has chosen to stick with her husband. She doesn't understand that this is the natural order of things.

Thank you for your poignant post. George and Cindy have experienced many adversities during their marriage but seem to forge ahead regardless of the obstacles that they've encountered. They need each other more now than ever before, and I trust that their love will help them weather this storm.
 
I think since that hearing where CA testified that she sprayed the car with febreze, and when she left the stand, KC acknowledged her. It looked like she mouthed the words 'thank you' but I can't be sure. CA said 'I love you' to her. However, since six weeks ago, things have changed. JMO, KC thought CA would testify that she may left the ladder on the pool, and also not stand behind GA regarding the abuse allegations. My opinion is that the A's are possibly starting to see truth. CA wasn't going to stand behind her daughter and try to protect her anymore.

Many times CA has tried desperately to catch KC's attention in court before KC has been escorted out of the courtroom and KC wouldn't give her the time of day. CA tried to visit her on mother's day and KC wouldn't see her. JMO but it has to be heartbreaking to know that your daughter is accusing your family of horrible allegations, and they are not true. KC is a narcissistic sociopath who went into a fit of rage when her mother turned the tables on her, and decided to tell the truth. JMO

BBM. Sure! ICA thought CA would say her medication has made her remember EVEN more and now she remembers leaving the ladder there.:waitasec:
 
I really think this shows what a sociopath Casey is. She doesn't understand that there is a line that normal people won't cross, or at least a line that her own mother won't cross. Cindy especially is supposed to be so loyal to Casey that no matter what Casey does, Casey expects Cindy to totally destroy her life rather than Cindy destroy her loyalty to Casey. Casey expected Cindy to always choose her over George and even Lee, I suspect.
Respectfully snipped
IMO Cindy was protecting Caylee over KC all along.She knew Caylee would not be taken care of if she was not living at the family home.To me it is not because she is narcissistic in nature,or worried about what people thought it was because she did all she could to protect Caylee.In order to be able to over see Caylee and keep her under her roof.People think it is so easy to take a child away from an unsafe mother,believe me it is almost impossible.If you attempt it and do not get custody the mom will most likely will take child away so it is a double edged sword. Cindy was not willing, was never willing, to put KC before Caylee ,but she had to make it seem she did to keep Caylee safe.IMO
 
Hmm. I think CA would have noticed it if it were still on there on the 16th. Plus if good old ex-le George were going to cover up a drowning, he would have removed the ladder. Sounds like ICA put the ladder there on Tuesday in an effort to throw things off.

ETA: What am I saying? I'm acting like this is anything the least bit credible. :eek:

If the ladder was attached to the pool on the 17th, that is the day ICA borrowed the shovel.

So she backed the car into the garage with a deceased baby in the trunk.....was planning on putting the baby in the pool to simulate a drowning...and to cover up whatever she had done to her to cause her to die. Then she thought better of that scenerio, remembering from Forensic Files type shows, that an autopsy would show that the baby hadn't drowned......no water in the lungs. So she used the shovel to fish her out of the pool.
 
T/J

BBM is the one acronym I haven't figured out yet. I will drobably say DUHHH when it is explained, but I still have to ask...what does BBM stand for?

Bolded By Me. The part I bolded is something a member used to say and I miss it.
 

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