Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[Bartholemeus]

here is a link that shows the VS series commodore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VS)

perfect vehicle for a fake taxi.

Looks like this will rule out PW and SR and LW !

Not necessarily.

If the DNA read is true then yes, but they may have access to such a car. LW's parents owned a service station in Mosman Park. One was near the corner of Stuart St and didn't have a mechanic service from memory but the two on opposite corners of Victoria St did. It would be good to ascertain which service station they owned.

 

[Bartholemeus]

so it was clothesline all along since 2011 the police knew that. In 2009 the police review announced that they had found something at Jane's grave site. They didn't say they had opened her grave; hard to do because she had been cremated and I understand that most evidence would have been destroyed during that process. So did the killer leave something at her gravesite prior to 2009? Her remains are in the John Meagher Memorial Gardens which is a strip close to Railway Parade.

Can you post the article if you haven't already please.

 

[papertrail]

Earlier this month, a five-person international review team revealed it had uncovered a new line of inquiry in the Claremont serial killings, based on scientific examination of samples taken from the grave site of murdered 23-year-old Jane Rimmer (POST December 11).

Given the Postnewspaper's detail published today (but released tomorrow), the reference in the article (linked below) to 'grave site' might be an error which should have referred to 'disposal site'.


https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/aussiecrime/conversations/topics/34

 

[Bartholemeus]

I am not sold on the Cemetery as being used for a scare tactic to keep the victim quiet. I think he went there more because it was a comfort zone for him.

Or it was close by and isolated.

Also, regarding the paint, he might have worked part/full time at a custom t-shirt shop or even a car interior design place that would have the machines necessary. He doesn't need to have owned the equipment.

Or the printing evidence was already on the clothesline before he acquired it and has no real link to him.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Does this suggest the victims were dressed in t-shirts ?????
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Not sure how you read that into it? My understanding is JR was naked and CG was fully clothed (redressed basically).

 

[Bartholemeus]

The model of car they refer to was launched in 1995.
Who drove brand new cars?
Fleet vehicles?
Taxis?
Were these cars used as Taxis in 1995?

Telecom workers.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Watch the news tonight. Ch 7

Was there anything?

 

[papertrail]

Not necessarily.

If the DNA read is true then yes, but they may have access to such a car. LW's parents owned a service station in Mosman Park. One was near the corner of Stuart St and didn't have a mechanic service from memory but the two on opposite corners of Victoria St did. It would be good to ascertain which service station they owned.

There was never a service station at corner of Stuart St, the servo was on the western side corner of Willis and Stirling Highway (no longer there) and from memory it was a Caltex. And there is a Shell servo just east of Willis. I recall a servo on the eastern corner of Victoria but can't for the life of me recall what brand it was; was a bit dumpy wasn't it ?

Can I ask how you know the Williams family owned a servo in this area; is it detailed somewhere ? Don't forget the had LW under 24 hour surveillance for years so I doubt he had borrowed a vehicle.

If they have DNA as Bret has detailed today, I am sure they would have acted before now if they had a perp on their dart board. I am really 'angry' to read about the 'lost' samples that were rediscovered when the Chemistry Lab moved; what a shambles which would have occurred during the Caporn / Lane era. But it seems everything got sorted from 2008 onwards.

 

[papertrail]

Not sure how you read that into it? My understanding is JR was naked and CG was fully clothed (redressed basically).

CG was partially clothed. Yes JR was 'reportedly' naked but perhaps the extra clothing found at her scene reported by media may have given police the lead re screenprinting / t-shirts etc.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The t-shirt pattern might be linked to the (Atlanta) olympic games held in 1996; officially opened on 19 July and concluded 4 August which just happened to be the day that Jane's remains were discovered.

Why I thought it was a soccer ball (or similar) withthe main design outline being a circular shape with what appears to be 5 circles within the circle so that would match the 5 olympic circles.

Anyone know if there were any olympic t-shirts printed in Western Australia or anywhere else in Australia ?

1. It could be any 1 of thousands of different circular logos. The fact that you're narrowing it down to a couple of options is laughable.
2. Why does it matter what that circular image is?

 

[papertrail]

Was there anything?

google "fresh clues in claremont serial killings" just gone online - footage of VS vehicle, interview grab with Bret. All 1min45secs. I think police are going to buckle under the pressure; this is going to be very hot new this weekend.

 

[Bartholemeus]

There was never a service station at corner of Stuart St, the servo was on the western side corner of Willis and Stirling Highway (no longer there) and from memory it was a Caltex. And there is a Shell servo just east of Willis. I recall a servo on the eastern corner of Victoria but can't for the life of me recall what brand it was; was a bit dumpy wasn't it ?

There was a Caltex or Shell on the Southern corner of Victoria and the dumpy one was on the northern corner. It's still there, but has been done up and there's no bowser. Not sure if there was a bowser at the old one either. It's now called Mosman Park Autocare.

Can I ask how you know the Williams family owned a servo in this area; is it detailed somewhere ?

DM's book.

Don't forget the had LW under 24 hour surveillance for years so I doubt he had borrowed a vehicle.

But we're going back to 1995 Karra rape and CSK murders which were before he was under surveillance.

He got his license back a couple of days after SS went missing (after losing it for DD for a few years) but had purchased his new Hyundai Excel a few weeks earlier. In 1995 he had no license nor car.

If they have DNA as Bret has detailed today, I am sure they would have acted before now if they had a perp on their dart board. I am really 'angry' to read about the 'lost' samples that were rediscovered when the Chemistry Lab moved; what a shambles which would have occurred during the Caporn / Lane era. But it seems everything got sorted from 2008 onwards.

If they do have DNA then LW, PW, SR, Judoman etc can all be ruled out.

I'm just not convinced. 50/50 at best for me.

 

[papertrail]

1. It could be any 1 of thousands of different circular logos. The fact that you're narrowing it down to a couple of options is laughable.
2. Why does it matter what that circular image is?

Because it may be able to be nailed to a printer in WA that's why duh you gotta think outside the box occasionally and because this guy (MM1) was struttin his stuff with this t-shirt showing meant something to him.

 

[Bartholemeus]

google "fresh clues in claremont serial killings" just gone online - footage of VS vehicle, interview grab with Bret. All 1min45secs. I think police are going to buckle under the pressure; this is going to be very hot new this weekend.

If they have DNA then the CSK should be getting all hot and bothered. Hope he doesn't think "well I'm going to get busted, may as well go out with a bang"

If there's no DNA then the police and watching someone pretty hard.

Either ay, things are hotting up.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I don't know what other people do but the first thing I'd do with a new car is put seat covers on it. Especially if it was a family type vehicle.
I'm guessing it was a fleet vehicle..company rep perhaps?

 

[Bartholemeus]

Another thing that strikes me as odd;

Bret Christian is the only guy who has the story. All the other media outlets' stories are based on Bret's stories. Police are clearly only talking to The Post.

The final word from the youbube;

"We are mindful of the public interest in this matter, however we need to balance this with the interests of the investigation"

 

[Bartholemeus]

Because it may be able to be nailed to a printer in WA that's why duh you gotta think outside the box occasionally and because this guy (MM1) was struttin his stuff with this t-shirt showing meant something to him.

Police claim they spoke to everyone outside bar MM. Therefore they spoke to MM1. He was wearing a t-shirt with a round design on it. So what? I think you're trying to hard to find something.

 

[elastic]

Question 1: If they had DNA then why weren't the words DNA up in big lights back in October? The words used were "forensic link" and only one publication used the letters "DNA". I would have though LE finding DNA is a massive breakthrough and the letters DNA would be splashed on the cover of every WA newspaper?

Question 2: It seems pretty clear Bret Christian is the chosen mouthpiece by police. I assume this is because he is local and they believe the CSK is local.


So;
Karra victim tied up with clothes line that has printing material on it.

Police lost evidence and found it 15 years later. That evidence showed fibres from the VS Commodore that were found on JR. After she was exposed to the elements for 5 months.


Err, what? He just said the evidence was lost and then relocated in 2011. Now he's saying 2004?

It was also widely reported that all 8/9 reviews of the case found no incompetence on behalf of the police.

My "sh** not adding up" beacon is flashing and making a loud noise. Maybe I'm reading it wrong because I've had a few beers but it's just not quite adding up right now. The only thing I'm sure about is police are working pretty hard for a result.

It does show complete utter incompetence from the police to lose evidence in Australia's biggest most expensive investigation, ever. Mind blowing. Atleast they found it though after all those years. There was a similar situation with Hayley Dodd so the police need to have a review on their evidence holding process and sort it out, now.

It's not clear if he is linked to the printing business, although the article does imply that. However if he stole the washing line from a business that did printing on fabric and dyes then it's very possible that he is not linked to those businesses. Although the way both articles are written you would think it is implying that there is enough forensic evidence to suggest he may be linked. I think that needs to be looked at more closely as it may narrow the focus somewhat. It should still be out there but whether it is known for certain that the link it definite.

Its definitely good news and it does now narrow the focus to potential suspects somewhat to a point that the public may actually be able to help the case in some capacity. Its a smart move and should have been done alot earlier.

The key part of the post article are the following.

The Karrakatta victim apparently identified a 'white panel van' -Witness Statement
Jane Rimmer was abducted in a 'white Holden VS Commodore Series 1' (thought to be Station Wagon) -match the upholstery

The Karrakatta Victim was tied up with 'washing line' -impregnated with materialused in screen printing

'Traces of DNA' were left on the Karrakatta Victim
DNA left on the body of the 1997 victim,Ciara Glennon

 

[Parkie]

CG was partially clothed. Yes JR was 'reportedly' naked but perhaps the extra clothing found at her scene reported by media may have given police the lead re screenprinting / t-shirts etc.[/QUOTE

Just, just in case you are thinking Papertrail, that clothing was left from one victim at anothers.. Well that is not the case. Just getting in early on that one.Anyways; Me thinks the clue is the rope left in the bushes.

 

[papertrail]

Question 1: If they had DNA then why weren't the words DNA up in big lights back in October? The words used were "forensic link" and only one publication used the letters "DNA". I would have though LE finding DNA is a massive breakthrough and the letters DNA would be splashed on the cover of every WA newspaper?

Question 2: It seems pretty clear Bret Christian is the chosen mouthpiece by police. I assume this is because he is local and they believe the CSK is local.


So;
Karra victim tied up with clothes line that has printing material on it.

Police lost evidence and found it 15 years later. That evidence showed fibres from the VS Commodore that were found on JR. After she was exposed to the elements for 5 months.


Err, what? He just said the evidence was lost and then relocated in 2011. Now he's saying 2004?

It was also widely reported that all 8/9 reviews of the case found no incompetence on behalf of the police.

My "sh** not adding up" beacon is flashing and making a loud noise. Maybe I'm reading it wrong because I've had a few beers but it's just not quite adding up right now. The only thing I'm sure about is police are working pretty hard for a result.

How I read it is the fibres were discovered with the Schramm review, and obviously sent off to the chem lab at some stage, who then 'misplaced' them and they were rediscovered in 2011 and it was found they had not been tested against other crimes etc. 2011 which just so happens to be the year (May 2011 from memory) they made contact with screenprinting companies too.

Seems to me the original investigators didn't consider linking the Karrakatta rape, or any other rape for that matter, with the Claremont murders.

I don't consider Bret a 'mouthpiece' for police at all; in fact he would be considered the opposite in my mind. That is one that will not and does not hold back on exerting pressure. He has amazing ability to get the job done; his record seeking justice for victims and wrongly accused stands for all to see. I think Bret has had enough of the police secrecy and he will keep digging and prodding.