Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[papertrail]

No it's not, it's what I have picked up along the way. So feel free to disregard it, after all if it's not public then it's not true is it?

it seems to me you've read details somewhere because you posted that he refused to provide a dna sample and I'm very curious to read more

 

[papertrail]

I'm preparing to post something and just asking the question as to whether dna can be obtained from a minute blood sample ?

 

[GreenDevil]

I'm preparing to post something and just asking the question as to whether dna can be obtained from a minute blood sample ?

Short answer is yes.

 

[silver tongue]

have fun viewing these photos http://www.auspolcars.info/


cant find anything there, cheeres anyway did come across very similar model and it was actually a police dog vehicle, panel vans were also police dog vehicles in the 90s

 

[papertrail]

snips
Posted 3 Dec 2004, 5:07pm
Map: Claremont 6010

A homicide profiler appointed to review the Claremont serial killer investigation in Western Australia says the crimes are sexually motivated and committed by an organised and methodical offender.

This is somebody who's put some planning into these crimes," she said.


"He's methodical, probably looks very normal on the surface, might have a steady job, no problems with employment."





http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-12-03/claremont-killer-organised-methodical/596728

 

[papertrail]

The new security system is interesting; "The engineers also made a change to the security system, allowing you to select either drivers door or all door unlocking".

Did this mean the perp could lock the passenger doors and only he could choose to open ?

Was this perp a rev head ?

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_commodore_vs.php

 

[JMC44]

Damn, so the last sighting of Ciara Glennon next to a white Holden is actually now pretty much certainly her talking to her killer(s).

 

[lavagirl]

With this confirmation about the car, I thought I would check over the Highgate/Northbridge man Con Bayens mentioned. From what I can find, his Commodore was ex police (bought at auctions) but was a sedan. If the reenactment is anything to go by, it also looks like it's a VP series. He was pulled over in 2002 so car would have been 8+ years? I'm not convinced it's the same man...Questioning why someone would downgrade their car unless as someone said, he had access to the wagon, and was not the owner.

I always thought it was Morey but this description of the man in this book suggests otherwise. But certainly is food for thought in that he may have had that presence about him that convinced the girls that he was trustworthy.

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...Jo4ChDoAQgYMAA#v=onepage&q=con bayens&f=false

 

[elastic]

He was asked to provide a DNA sample and refused. I think they may have obtained a sample via a court action though. Even so, just because they have DNA now, it does not mean any of the previous POI's have been ruled out, the DNA sample may be a partial degraded sample (highly likely) that is not enough to pass scrutiny in court.

The way the article reads is that a partial DNA sample that was able to be matched to the Karrakatta DNA sample. Hence they should have a DNA profile. I notice other than the post not many other articles talk about the DNA link.

 

[GreenDevil]

The way the article reads is that a partial DNA sample that was able to be matched to the Karrakatta DNA sample. Hence they should have a DNA profile. I notice other than the post not many other articles talk about the DNA link.

Police have not released what the forensic link is, so I am loathe to conclude that the link is DNA. I am more inclined to believe that the link is not DNA, because if it was I believe we would have seen an arrest by now.

I believe that yes they have DNA from Karrakatta, but they don't have DNA from any of the CSK murders and the forensic link is something else that's very tenuous which needs to be further investigated in an attempt to obtain useable physical evidence.

 

[Sutton]

Police have not released what the forensic link is, so I am loathe to conclude that the link is DNA. I am more inclined to believe that the link is not DNA, because if it was I believe we would have seen an arrest by now.

I believe that yes they have DNA from Karrakatta, but they don't have DNA from any of the CSK murders and the forensic link is something else that's very tenuous which needs to be further investigated in an attempt to obtain useable physical evidence.

The Post reads

Importantly, he left his DNA on the body of the 1997 victim, Ciara Glennon, traces that police have now matched to a teenager’s late-night abduction in Claremont and rape in Karrakatta cemetery in February 1995

I think this is a pretty conclusive statement.

 

[Parkie]

Yep. DNA link to Karrakatta but no suspect to link it to. Is Plan B the MM footage frame that the SCS now know about?

 

[Parkie]

With this confirmation about the car, I thought I would check over the Highgate/Northbridge man Con Bayens mentioned. From what I can find, his Commodore was ex police (bought at auctions) but was a sedan. If the reenactment is anything to go by, it also looks like it's a VP series. He was pulled over in 2002 so car would have been 8+ years? End quote. Lava he has been cleared. Virtually everyone has.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Damn, so the last sighting of Ciara Glennon next to a white Holden is actually now pretty much certainly her talking to her killer(s).

This has been assumed since 2008.

I got seriously interested in approx 2010. I always assumed that the guys at the bus stop seeing CG talking to a white car, possibly Holden station wagon, was info from the start. It appears, thanks to Sutton, this was only floated in 2008. This justified the blitz attack theory.

Now it sems the holden station wagon is the real deal which again casts doubt on the blitz theory.

What's going on here? How does white Holden VS and blitz attack fit in together?

Confused.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The Post reads

Importantly, he left his DNA on the body of the 1997 victim, Ciara Glennon, traces that police have now matched to a teenager’s late-night abduction in Claremont and rape in Karrakatta cemetery in February 1995

I think this is a pretty conclusive statement.

It's a conclusive statement but is it true? Are police playing mind games with their suspect or do they actually have DNA?

If they have DNA then all suspects are ruled out, meaning that the whole time the CSK was off the radar. So why did he stop?

 

[Sutton]

It's a conclusive statement but is it true? Are police playing mind games with their suspect or do they actually have DNA?

If they have DNA then all suspects are ruled out, meaning that the whole time the CSK was off the radar. So why did he stop?

Valid point.

I know you've expressed that possibility before, but I did not think of 'false information' when reading GreenDevil's post.

 

[Sutton]

What's going on here? How does white Holden VS and blitz attack fit in together?

Confused.

RSBM. Was it a blitz attack or did Ciara willingly talk to her killer? It can't be both, unless...

The killer gained confidence during past attacks, so he tried to interact with and con Ciara into his vehicle. When this failed, he drove down the road a bit, pulled over and waited for her.

I'm not necessarily putting this forth as my theory, just trying to come up with possibilities that fit the newly released info.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Valid point.

I know you've expressed that possibility before, but I did not think of 'false information' when reading GreenDevil's post.

I know you weren't questioning him, just pointing out that the whole DNA thing is not necessarily the done deal we all want to think it is. I felt there were a few flaws in Bret Christian's article but I had beer goggles on so need to go back and re-read.

There's still too many iffy things for me to move into the "I'm now satisfied it's highly likely they have DNA" territory. I'm hovering around 50/50 at this stage.


But the question needs to be asked;

If LE have DNA that has ruled out all their main suspects, then that means the CSK is someone off the grid. So why did he stop? There was probably no real heat on him, perhaps none at all. Then LW is numero uno and he would have known he had some room to move. Why did he stop?

 

[papertrail]

This has been assumed since 2008.

I got seriously interested in approx 2010. I always assumed that the guys at the bus stop seeing CG talking to a white car, possibly Holden station wagon, was info from the start. It appears, thanks to Sutton, this was only floated in 2008. This justified the blitz attack theory.

Now it sems the holden station wagon is the real deal which again casts doubt on the blitz theory.

What's going on here? How does white Holden VS and blitz attack fit in together?

Confused.

What is your reading of what the phrase 'blitz attack' means or refers to ? It's my understanding the word blitz means 'any sudden intensive attack'. Thus the blitz attack theory regarding how the Claremont victims were overcome, would possibly be they were 'blitzed' once inside the perp's vehicle.

Both Sarah Spiers and Ciara Glennon were making their way back to Mosman Park (for our overseas contributors Mosman Park is located between Claremont and Fremantle).

Has anyone been able to pinpoint what year the attack on the girl ex Fremantle cinema occurred; I am referring to the one detailed by ex WA policeman Dobson where 2 x chillean nationals were involved. When I listened to Dobson I got a feeling he was talking about 1995 ?

 

[papertrail]

With this confirmation about the car, I thought I would check over the Highgate/Northbridge man Con Bayens mentioned. From what I can find, his Commodore was ex police (bought at auctions) but was a sedan. If the reenactment is anything to go by, it also looks like it's a VP series. He was pulled over in 2002 so car would have been 8+ years? I'm not convinced it's the same man...Questioning why someone would downgrade their car unless as someone said, he had access to the wagon, and was not the owner.

I always thought it was Morey but this description of the man in this book suggests otherwise. But certainly is food for thought in that he may have had that presence about him that convinced the girls that he was trustworthy.

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...Jo4ChDoAQgYMAA#v=onepage&q=con bayens&f=false

the reason for choosing to 'downgrade' a vehicle may be that perp realized if the vehicle was 'brand spanking' new and the police finally traced DNA or other forensic links to that 'new' vehicle, a 2nd hand vehicle would have a mix of DNA and forensic items ie upholstery or carpet fabric would be more difficult to match ?