CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[thess]

And unless they have undeniable PROOF they are willing to take to a courtroom they will continue to comment this way...

Is it just me or do the rest of you not believe there are this many copycats/ wanna be's out there?

I don't believe it...sorry. I think more cases are connected than LE is going to come out in MSM and admit. They seem to "have no reason to believe" connections until they can prove it in court. I find this extremely disturbing that there are all these "unrelated" cases...yet apparently there is no public safety issue.:waitasec:

I know LE is doing the very best they can to find these people...I do. It's just hard to interpret what is truth and what is to prevent panic in communities that face multiple "like-crimes" such as these.

Personally, all the different information out there is exactly the reason I'm one of the types of posters who harps so much on what is factually/officially known versus what is speculation/rumor. I'm a huge believer in the power of information--factual information. It's the thing that comforts me, whereas faith in (whatever) may comfort other people. I understand that putting the puzzle pieces together, including pieces we don't really have, is a huge aspect of WS. But I think it's important to stay anchored in the 'known' at the same time.

I would imagine it's extremely hard for locals right now as well. I'm thousands of miles away and this case has me looking over my shoulder in my own home. Unfortunately discovering this site has had a bad effect on my sleep, too. Which may be why this post is rambly.

 

[mck16]

there were a rash of abduction attempts in NJ before Autumn went missing. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/2...ink-between-autumn-pasquale-death-and-recent/
these attempts must be made more public with stronger warnings. no kid should be out alone with this stuff going on.
the saddest thing about this is Jessica had the Candyman abduction attempt flyer in her backpack and was still out by herself.[/QUOTE]

What? When was the contents of her backpack revealed? OMG

 

[absentia]

there were a rash of abduction attempts in NJ before Autumn went missing. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/2...ink-between-autumn-pasquale-death-and-recent/
these attempts must be made more public with stronger warnings. no kid should be out alone with this stuff going on.
the saddest thing about this is Jessica had the Candyman abduction attempt flyer in her backpack and was still out by herself.[/QUOTE]

What? When was the contents of her backpack revealed? OMG

early on I read that she had it with her. In her hand? backpack? or had recently received it. I may have mis-stated that it was in her BP. If it was in her BP, it was reported that she had it before the BP or her body was found.
this was the info: (it was stated another way, as if Jessica had the letter with her when she was abducted) "In mid-September, school officials warned parents of two attempted abductions, one by a man offering candy if a child got into his car." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/u...ng-leaves-community-heartbroken-and-edgy.html

 

[mck16]

early on I read that she had it with her. In her hand? backpack? or had recently received it. I may have mis-stated that it was in her BP. If it was in her BP, it was reported that she had it before the BP or her body was found.

Had not heard anything about that. Maybe they passed them out at school. jmo

 

[AlwaysReading]

Yeah, I think that fake scenerio was just not done convincingly enough. In reality, if the girl would have screamed bloody murder at the top of her lungs, there may have been a better reaction from the public.

I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a child didn't scream much more than the actress - there's no evidence that JR screamed at all. Some people freeze up and girls especially are socialized not to make a scene.

However, I do agree that not all people will help out no matter what the situation. We, as a society, need to try to teach other people to become more willing to stand up and help out in times of need. I realize that is very difficult to do because it goes to the very essence of who we are, and some people probably are just not cut out for it. But, I am convinced we could change some minds and maybe change some people. This is one of those things that we have to start working on and realize it will be a slow grueling journey.

I think this is where I am at with it, and it was the crux of my question. There is a lot of responsibility put on kids to "react the right way" to strangers or in situations that "just don't feel right." But I really haven't seen much of a push to educate adults on how to react in these situations. I've been to self-defense classes and I don't ever remember hearing instruction on how to stop a perpetrator or intervene on someone's behalf.

I think we need to do this, because it isn't instinctual for many of us to get involved in someone else's business. And it is horrifying to me that all of the burden is placed on the child to get away when it is pretty clear that even a grown woman (or man) may not be able to manage it on their own.

I think the biggest fear in stepping into a situation is that IF it is a kid acting up, or even a couple in a scuffle (gross to think about that) that we risk offending or even being on the receiving end of an uncomfortable or even dangerous confrontation. I'm not sure how to get past that fear and step into a situation.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you. This is so encouraging, and I think it is a sign that we, as a society, are startting to change for the better and a lot more people are willing to stand up to a perp(s) or at least not go down without a fight.

A perfect example is the hijacking of airplanes (or lack thereof anymore). Ever since 9/11, we have seen MANY instances of the public on airplanes taking down people who were disrupting the flight and acting threatening to the flight. To me, this shows us that a lot more of the general public has changed for the better, and are much more willing to jump in and help out.
Before 9/11, it seems we behaved like "sheep" on a plane, but nowadays, I am convinced and comfortable that if something happens, there would be enough people willing to take action if needed.

There is a lot we can do, and if we no longer have our strength as we get older, we can still help out in other ways like you mentioned if a bad sitiuation develops.

The key is to educate and help more people to become willing to help out in times of need.

Before 9/11, the airlines and the government actually had a policy of encouraging airplane passengers to cooperate with hijackers. There was good reasoning behind it: before 9/11 no hijacker in the US had wanted to do anything more than use the plane as free transportation to somewhere (usually Cuba). Encouraging people to comply with hijackers probably prevented injuries and deaths caused by a nervous hijacker who really just wanted to get the plane to go where he wanted it to go.

The events of 9/11 changed that, although I'm not certain we're actually preventing hijackings. Sadly, there have been several cases where passengers who had mental illness were killed by over-zealous passengers (usually by untrained passengers not realising how easily someone who is on the floor facing down with weight on top of them can smother).

For me the key is to keep generating options and acting on them until I hit on one that works. If throwing my cell phone didn't work, then I could grab my shoes and throw them. I might be able to grab my wheelchair bag and throw it.

If there is even a small downward slope between me and the abductor and child, I could probably roll down and just physically ram them. Yes, there's a chance I might hurt the child as well but it probably wouldn't be serious (kids are made of india rubber and they bounce) and certainly less serious than what an abductor would have in mind.

If it were winter and I were close enough, I could rip off my coat and throw it at the abductor with the child, hoping that the sudden covering of his head would make him loosen his grip.

The important thing is not to stick with one single strategy if it isn't working. Try it and then move on to trying something different. Don't just keep doing the same thing and hoping to get different results the next time.

 

[SapphireSteel]

And unless they have undeniable PROOF they are willing to take to a courtroom they will continue to comment this way...

Is it just me or do the rest of you not believe there are this many copycats/ wanna be's out there?

I don't believe it...sorry. I think more cases are connected than LE is going to come out in MSM and admit. They seem to "have no reason to believe" connections until they can prove it in court. I find this extremely disturbing that there are all these "unrelated" cases...yet apparently there is no public safety issue.:waitasec:

I know LE is doing the very best they can to find these people...I do. It's just hard to interpret what is truth and what is to prevent panic in communities that face multiple "like-crimes" such as these.

:moo:

I lease: they find these people and make examples of them.

It is more comfortable to believe they are related.

If they are not related, that opens up something truly scary - that there really are monsters prowling about in plain view, hunting our kids.

It's more comforting to think these attempts are either related or misreported.

The truth is, we just don't know...but I personally have noticed an extreme escalation in violence to children in North America especially in about the last 10 years so it wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of these are copy cat wanna-bes.

I wonder if our boys idolise some past vicious serial killer, it's part of the fantasy that they want to be just like him or *shudder* better.

I believe personally, this is largely related to the spread of meth with a kicker from the internet. Meth is one evil, evil drug and now we've opened Pandora's Box as well.

:cow:

 

[Hatfield]

And unless they have undeniable PROOF they are willing to take to a courtroom they will continue to comment this way...

Is it just me or do the rest of you not believe there are this many copycats/ wanna be's out there?

I don't believe it...sorry. I think more cases are connected than LE is going to come out in MSM and admit. They seem to "have no reason to believe" connections until they can prove it in court. I find this extremely disturbing that there are all these "unrelated" cases...yet apparently there is no public safety issue.:waitasec:

I know LE is doing the very best they can to find these people...I do. It's just hard to interpret what is truth and what is to prevent panic in communities that face multiple "like-crimes" such as these.

:moo:

I lease: they find these people and make examples of them.

I agree especially regarding the attempted abduction near the bar because of the attempted use of the rag. I just cannot wrap my mind around someone else using that exact same method so closely in time to the jogger event.

I'm just trying to be realistic and think what are the odds that 2 different people would use the exact same method. I know we see it on TV a lot, but the chance of people actually getting or making that chemical and actually using it in an abduction so close in time and close in area, just seems a little too much for me.

If they have more evidence in the bar event, they should pursue that anyway since it was a serious crime too. If they can solve that one, then it may lead to solving Jennifers case. That is the hope anyway.

 

[GrainneDhu]

GrainneDhu, I am your biggest fan!:blushing:

I thought I was!

I hardly know what to say.

You are both very kind, thank you so much. I really needed a lift and this was so well timed.

 

[absentia]

Yeah, I think that fake scenerio was just not done convincingly enough. In reality, if the girl would have screamed bloody murder at the top of her lungs, there may have been a better reaction from the public.

However, I do agree that not all people will help out no matter what the situation. We, as a society, need to try to teach other people to become more willing to stand up and help out in times of need. I realize that is very difficult to do because it goes to the very essence of who we are, and some people probably are just not cut out for it. But, I am convinced we could change some minds and maybe change some people. This is one of those things that we have to start working on and realize it will be a slow grueling journey.

an abductor would probably not yell at the girl at the beginning. I think it happens quietly and that's why people don't notice. if a child is fearful, they can freeze and not be able to scream. dropping to the ground is a great idea. it's easy if you're scared. women also have a lower center of gravity with stronger legs than upper body, generally speaking, so they can fight better from the ground with their legs.

 

[cindersoot]

I have been gone, have a sinus infection so was at the doctor this morning. Has the verdict come in on the clump of hair that was found?

 

[mck16]

an abductor would probably not yell at the girl at the beginning. I think it happens quietly and that's why people don't notice. if a child is fearful, they can freeze and not be able to scream. dropping to the ground is a great idea. it's easy if you're scared. women also have a lower center of gravity with stronger legs than upper body, generally speaking, so they can fight better from the ground with their legs.

Considering the quickness of JR's abduction, I have to believe it was someone she either recogonized or knew. Bad weather and a little girl walking would be easily tempted to take a ride especially if she knew the person. jmo

 

[SweetT]

I have been gone, have a sinus infection so was at the doctor this morning. Has the verdict come in on the clump of hair that was found?

Nope sending it off for testing even if it is synthetic just to process it as if it were a piece of important evidence cause you never know.

 

[palaminodee]

I have been gone, have a sinus infection so was at the doctor this morning. Has the verdict come in on the clump of hair that was found?

not yet

 

[Elley Mae]

an abductor would probably not yell at the girl at the beginning. I think it happens quietly and that's why people don't notice. if a child is fearful, they can freeze and not be able to scream. dropping to the ground is a great idea. it's easy if you're scared. women also have a lower center of gravity with stronger legs than upper body, generally speaking, so they can fight better from the ground with their legs.

I just thought about Jessica possibly being approached from behind with the chemical rag and hope she was able to grab and scratch his hand. Then thought that is something else that should be looked for, Scratches on hands or face.

 

[LotusPawprint]

When was the last presser held by WPD? I know they've been releasing statements on FB but can't recall the most recent press conference.

Wonder if they've received any helpful leads on the cross. Local shops selling it or credible sightings of someone who wore it pre 10/5. Hope so. Hope people on FB and calling in tips listened to the WPD request to lay off the analysis of the markings and what kind of wood was used..... I think it may be useful but I think the PD knows what they need best!!

 

[GrainneDhu]

yes I am well aware of WHY they weren't reported missing right away, but it is very coincidental. like someone knows their freedom and independence levels. If you have read all the threads you will see I've been posting since the beginning so have obviously read everything.

I think in Jessica's case that the perp had a plan to get her out of public sight very quickly. He probably figured he could have her out of sight in less than 15 minutes, so he didn't have to worry about the school notifying Jessica's parent.

I think that if Jessica's mom had answered her phone, it would not have made any difference. The police would still have wanted the school to re-check attendance, then they would have checked public places a child might go in cutting school, checked out Jessica's friend's houses, etc.

LE would not have jumped straight into door to door searching right away.

I'm guessing the perp also thought his hiding place (probably wherever it is he lives) was outside the likely search perimeter. I think he got a nasty surprise when LE got closer than he thought they would.

 

[cindersoot]

I think I heard thats how they got the DNA from the perp who assaulted the woman in May. Under her nails.

 

[absentia]

I think in Jessica's case that the perp had a plan to get her out of public sight very quickly. He probably figured he could have her out of sight in less than 15 minutes, so he didn't have to worry about the school notifying Jessica's parent.

I think that if Jessica's mom had answered her phone, it would not have made any difference. The police would still have wanted the school to re-check attendance, then they would have checked public places a child might go in cutting school, checked out Jessica's friend's houses, etc.

LE would not have jumped straight into door to door searching right away.

I'm guessing the perp also thought his hiding place (probably wherever it is he lives) was outside the likely search perimeter. I think he got a nasty surprise when LE got closer than he thought they would.

I know. It seems that by the time they're missing it's too late. but still, I'm surprised parents don't know where their kids are for 8 hours. I can see how it can happen. but I don't know if I'll ever be comfortable with that myself.

 

[SweetT]

Ok I have been thinking, since they LE stated that the attempted abduction in May is the same person as the one that took Jessica. Some thoughts and questions have come to mind. First, if the abductor would have succeeded in abducting the jogger using chemicals on a towel etc..then what was he going to do next? Put her in the bushes? Carry her to a car? Come back for her later? Cause wouldnt you think it would be risky to come back for her later, I mean she possibly told people where she was going and they'd be looking for her right? or was she single and most likely did not tell anyone? If he was going to do whatever with her right then and there, then he would have to be quick etc. I guess the bushes would have been enough cover for some bad deeds? Or did this lady run this path daily? Did he live or watch her long enough to know she would be alone, lived alone? He surely would not have been able to carry her out of there without being noticed I would think. Does he live close enough to there that he has a daily view of this area? Just questions.