CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[SapphireSteel]

I think in Jessica's case that the perp had a plan to get her out of public sight very quickly. He probably figured he could have her out of sight in less than 15 minutes, so he didn't have to worry about the school notifying Jessica's parent.

I think that if Jessica's mom had answered her phone, it would not have made any difference. The police would still have wanted the school to re-check attendance, then they would have checked public places a child might go in cutting school, checked out Jessica's friend's houses, etc.

LE would not have jumped straight into door to door searching right away.

I'm guessing the perp also thought his hiding place (probably wherever it is he lives) was outside the likely search perimeter. I think he got a nasty surprise when LE got closer than he thought they would.

I agree 100%.

Jessica was lost the minute she walked out her door.

I hope her mum feels no guilt. There is nothing she could've done to prevent this.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

there were a rash of abduction attempts in NJ before Autumn went missing. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/2...ink-between-autumn-pasquale-death-and-recent/
these attempts must be made more public with stronger warnings. no kid should be out alone with this stuff going on.
the saddest thing about this is Jessica had the Candyman abduction attempt flyer in her backpack and was still out by herself.


this is NJ's reaction. (I grew up in New England so maybe that's why I feel this way too)
""Until they find out who did it, you don't let your kids out," he said."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/23/missing-girl-nj-pasquale/1651305/

She had the candyman flyer in her back pack? Why would she have it?It happend in Arvada.

 

[i8mypaint]

The aurora thing looks separate. Not a good part of town. My friend lives there and I am always telling her she needs to move. Crime rate is pretty high. IMOO not related at all.

 

[absentia]

here's the letter that was sent home to all Witt Elementary students on 9/13 with the candyman sketch. I still can't find where it says Jessica had it on her when she was abducted, but I remember reading that. With that going on, I can't believe any kids were out alone, or that parents weren't checking on their whereabouts regularly. In NJ, too. same situation. warnings went out but kids were still out and about alone. so, prevention does seem possible.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10...students-in-wake-of-attempted-luring-reports/

""September 13, 2012

Dear (name of school) parents/guardians,

This letter is to make you aware of recent incidents involving “stranger danger” in the Arvada area.

Arvada Police received a report that a child was approached by a stranger offering candy, asking them to get into the stranger’s car. A police report has been filed and they are investigating. There is an additional report of a child being approached by a stranger at Fitzmorris Elementary in Arvada after school. Once again, police are investigating that incident.

We want you to know that student safety is always our top priority and this event reminds us of the importance of talking with your child about stranger danger.

Reinforce safe behaviors with your child and tell them to always be aware of their surroundings.

If a stranger approaches your child, whether it is at school or outside of school, be sure that your child knows what to do: yell or shout, run away and immediately tell an adult. Stress to your child the importance of going straight to school and coming home immediately after dismissal, or leaving the bus stop.

Remind your child that if he/she sees anything suspicious around the neighborhood or school, they need to immediately contact the police department and notify the school.

I know that together, we can help protect the safety of our children. If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to call me at 303-982-XXXX.

Sincerely,

Principal XXXXX""
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/...ger-Danger-Warning-Last-Month--173730311.html

 

[absentia]

She had the candyman flyer in her back pack? Why would she have it?It happend in Arvada.

same school district I believe. all Witt elementary students received them.

 

[Foxfire]

I feel like the case will be solved. I'm not sure if it will be soon, but I would be very surprised if it's still unsolved a year later. I feel like with 200+ LE working a murder case, it's even more shameful if they can't solve it. If you are going to devote more resources/money into a case than 99.9% of other cases, then you better solve it.

Holly Bobo abduction investigation (TN) 04/13/2011, had virtually the same local, state, and federal LE Agencies & other resources for weeks and months. Eighteen months later neither Holly or the perp has been located and the perp remains at large. Although Holly is not a child. Everyone is someone's child.
Praying that Jessica's abductor/s are apprehended..

 

[scorekeeper]

My opinions – so far – Sorry for the long post but these are some things I have written down and wanted to put out there. I am sorry for posting thoughts and not providing MSM links…but here goes…
1. I think the perp lives closer to the body dump site. I think he may have gone there in his teen years. I think he drives by there on a regular basis. For some reason he goes to Westminster on a regular basis (either for work or to visit friends or may be originally from that area).
2. I think the backpack was left where it was to draw the searchers from current areas or for a laugh from the perp and/or to taunt the police.
3. I think Jessica knew the perp maybe not well but was familiar with them. As spoken many times here, stranger to stranger abduction is rare. Someone may have abducted her for someone else. There were 3 adults living with Jessica and I believe they all worked outside the home so that tells me that a lot of co-workers knew about Jessica, her age, where she lived, went to school, etc.
4. I think the perp knew that trash was picked up at Pattrich Park on a regular basis. I think he wanted her found because there were obvious ways he could have disposed of her that may never have been found.
5. I think the cross was a personal belonging of the perp’s. I don’t know if it was left on purpose or not. I think the markings tell something about him and he may have other items with same/similar markings.
6. I think he may somehow work with chemicals (lawn care – a lot of golf course around the area/factory, etc.) or has a knowledge/fascination of chemical compounds.
7. I think he is around 25-35 years of age. He probably likes to hunt, video games (things he can do by himself). I think he has close friends that he has had since high school (I don’t think he makes or wants new friends). Meaning he is social within his own group. He may have a girlfriend and I think he probably is verbally and/or physically abusive with her. I think something major has happened in his life recently.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I have to disagree that Jessica had no chance the minute she was abducted. If she had been reported missing 8 hours earlier people would have been looking for her. The abductor could have even had the radio on and telling Jessica that no one was looking for her. I wonder how many people Jessica saw while with the abductor? The perp probably would have been less confident if he'd heard on the radio that she was missing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think this is where I am at with it, and it was the crux of my question. There is a lot of responsibility put on kids to "react the right way" to strangers or in situations that "just don't feel right." But I really haven't seen much of a push to educate adults on how to react in these situations. I've been to self-defense classes and I don't ever remember hearing instruction on how to stop a perpetrator or intervene on someone's behalf.

I think we need to do this, because it isn't instinctual for many of us to get involved in someone else's business. And it is horrifying to me that all of the burden is placed on the child to get away when it is pretty clear that even a grown woman (or man) may not be able to manage it on their own.

I think the biggest fear in stepping into a situation is that IF it is a kid acting up, or even a couple in a scuffle (gross to think about that) that we risk offending or even being on the receiving end of an uncomfortable or even dangerous confrontation. I'm not sure how to get past that fear and step into a situation.

SBM

How I got past the fear of offending was by always intervening in the nicest way I can.

So if I see a woman raising her voice to her child, I step over and say something like "oh, children pick the worst times, don't they? Can I keep an eye on your child for just a second while you catch your breath?"

Not once has anyone taken offence. More than once, the adult teared up. On one occasion, I ended up with mom and child in my arms sobbing because her mother had just died earlier that day. I cried too.

When I try to step in, I always try to give the benefit of the doubt and approach it with the attitude that I'm on everyone's side. I just want everyone to be happy (which is the absolute truth).

Likewise in situations with couples who are fighting a little too vehemently in public. I don't take sides because I don't want to force a victim into defending their abuser (a common reaction). I just say something like "wow, the two of you have a lot of sparks flying! Going home must be interesting." The response to that tells me whether I need to start menacing the abuser to get them to go away or whether they just needed to be reminded they are out in public (I've done both).

The more often I intervene in the affairs of complete strangers, the easier it has become. I am now completely inappropriate in public and my teen nephews have given their eyeballs quite the workouts in the past few years (they are both in the stage where they are easily embarrassed by their crazy auntie).

 

[cindersoot]

I agree 100%.

Jessica was lost the minute she walked out her door.

I hope her mum feels no guilt. There is nothing she could've done to prevent this.

I know I would feel guilty, but that just how a mom is, we always feel guilty when something happens to our kids.

 

[SapphireSteel]

here's the letter that was sent home to all Witt Elementary students on 9/13 with the candyman sketch. I still can't find where it says Jessica had it on her when she was abducted, but I remember reading that. With that going on, I can't believe any kids were out alone, or that parents weren't checking on their whereabouts regularly. In NJ, too. same situation. warnings went out but kids were still out and about alone. so, prevention does seem possible.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10...students-in-wake-of-attempted-luring-reports/

""September 13, 2012

Dear (name of school) parents/guardians,

This letter is to make you aware of recent incidents involving “stranger danger” in the Arvada area.

Arvada Police received a report that a child was approached by a stranger offering candy, asking them to get into the stranger’s car. A police report has been filed and they are investigating. There is an additional report of a child being approached by a stranger at Fitzmorris Elementary in Arvada after school. Once again, police are investigating that incident.

We want you to know that student safety is always our top priority and this event reminds us of the importance of talking with your child about stranger danger.

Reinforce safe behaviors with your child and tell them to always be aware of their surroundings.

If a stranger approaches your child, whether it is at school or outside of school, be sure that your child knows what to do: yell or shout, run away and immediately tell an adult. Stress to your child the importance of going straight to school and coming home immediately after dismissal, or leaving the bus stop.

Remind your child that if he/she sees anything suspicious around the neighborhood or school, they need to immediately contact the police department and notify the school.

I know that together, we can help protect the safety of our children. If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to call me at 303-982-XXXX.

Sincerely,

Principal XXXXX""
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/...ger-Danger-Warning-Last-Month--173730311.html

So, Jessica was well aware of stranger danger.

I'm taking a leap here but I believe that he had perhaps followed her home from school one day, learnt where she lived and her general patterns, then realised he could intercept her somewhere close to her house one morning, likely alone.

If she met up with a group of kids normally, maybe he followed that group home one night and saw Jessica break away and walk off on her own.

Or...maybe it's completely random, maybe he just hung out in some trees somewhere and waited for the first small person to come along.

In the early days though, LE did say "non-random" so that would imply planning and prior knowledge of Jessica.

Do we know the abduction site?

:dunno:

 

[iamnotagolem]

I thought LE said there is a direct link from Jessica to the may case at ketner lake but that they don't know that it was the same person.

Here is the link

http://www.9news.com/news/article/295677/339/Ridgeway-Memorial-Day-lake-attack-connected

WESTMINSTER - The Westminster police announced on Monday evening there is a direct link between the Memorial Day attempted abduction at Ketner Lake and the Jessica Ridgeway murder case.

Investigator Trevor Materasso would not say if investigators believe the same person was involved in both attacks.

"We're limited beyond that to talk in detail or give specifics on how those two connections are made," Investigator Trevor Materasso told 9NEWS.

 

[cindersoot]

I thought LE said there is a direct link from Jessica to the may case at ketner lake but that they don't know that it was the same person.

Here is the link

http://www.9news.com/news/article/295677/339/Ridgeway-Memorial-Day-lake-attack-connected

WESTMINSTER - The Westminster police announced on Monday evening there is a direct link between the Memorial Day attempted abduction at Ketner Lake and the Jessica Ridgeway murder case.

Investigator Trevor Materasso would not say if investigators believe the same person was involved in both attacks.

"We're limited beyond that to talk in detail or give specifics on how those two connections are made," Investigator Trevor Materasso told 9NEWS.

How can it be a direct link, but not the same person.:waitasec:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Holly Bobo abduction investigation (TN) 04/13/2011, had virtually the same local, state, and federal LE Agencies & other resources for weeks and months. Eighteen months later neither Holly or the perp has been located and the perp remains at large. Although Holly is not a child. Everyone is someone's child.
Praying that Jessica's abductor/s are apprehended..

Holly Bobo is a missing person. Jessica is a murder victim. I believe that 200+ officers working a murder case is unprecedented (by a huge amount), but that many on a missing person case is a bit more common. Also, do you have a link that says that hundreds of LE, many agencies were working on Holly's case for months? From what I've seen in previous high-profile missing person cases, usually by the 2nd month, the #of officers decreases dramatically like from hundreds to a handful.

I just hope Jessica's case isn't unsolved a year from now, with two officers assigned to the case, and $2 million spent.

 

[SweetT]

I know I would feel guilty, but that just how a mom is, we always feel guilty when something happens to our kids.

I agree. And the sad fact is there are many moms out there like this. I was single for yrs, had to work 50-60 hrs a week to make ends meet. I was not usually there when my kids left for school and not home when they arrived back from school. I can see how someone could go 8 hrs without a parent knowing where they are. If someone didnt have my work number and my extension they would not have been able to get a hold of me either. Now I had 3 kids and they did a pretty good job of watching out for each other, but I can see how something could happen and it would not be good. Yes, we as a mother/parent would always feel guilt if something happened to our child and we were not there to protect them.

 

[msthinksalot]

3. I think Jessica knew the perp maybe not well but was familiar with them. As spoken many times here, stranger to stranger abduction is rare. Someone may have abducted her for someone else. There were 3 adults living with Jessica and I believe they all worked outside the home so that tells me that a lot of co-workers knew about Jessica, her age, where she lived, went to school, etc.

Snipped and BBM.

Actually, it's interesting... I don't think we've talked about this from that particular point of view. I remember us talking about possible coworkers of Jessica's mom, but not her grandmother.

Grandparents talk a LOT about their grandchildren. In my old office, the women who had grandchildren had more photos on/around their desks than most parents did, and during office parties and at events, they loved to talk about their grandkids.

We know that Jessica's grandma owns the house they live in. I wonder where she worked and I can only presume at this point that LE is looking into her coworkers and friends. Admittedly, speaking from a friends POV only, that may make the perp older than what we keep thinking of (around 28 or so?), but IMO it would explain a familiarity with the family's schedule, including Jessica's schedule, and familiarity with the address, etc.

 

[jenandemmie]

I know they don't typically release victim info, especially in sex assault cases, but does anyone know if they have released her general description/physical stature? I'm thinking in terms of her size/ht/wt in comparison to his. Did he choose a smaller/shorter woman bc she would be easier to subdue and transport (or maybe even blonde? Is he selecting blondes) or was she a taller/larger woman and/or brunette? Since there are two victims known now, victimology suggests we start with any similarities in victims. If their only common attributes are that they are both female and were alone at the time, than that changes things significantly in my mind.

 

[Elley Mae]

How can it be a direct link, but not the same person.:waitasec:

That is what I thought when I read that. Wonder what is up with that.

 

[Foxfire]

It is more comfortable to believe they are related.

If they are not related, that opens up something truly scary - that there really are monsters prowling about in plain view, hunting our kids.

It's more comforting to think these attempts are either related or misreported.

The truth is, we just don't know...but I personally have noticed an extreme escalation in violence to children in North America especially in about the last 10 years so it wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of these are copy cat wanna-bes.

I wonder if our boys idolise some past vicious serial killer, it's part of the fantasy that they want to be just like him or *shudder* better.

I believe personally, this is largely related to the spread of meth with a kicker from the internet. Meth is one evil, evil drug and now we've opened Pandora's Box as well.

:cow:

"There's a phrase you hear in addiction circles about meth; Meth makes a good guy go bad. And a bad guy badder." In most serial killers of late that I have researched. There seems to be a common denominator of methamphetamine either directly or indirectly.

One side effect of meth is an increased labido..
The meth epidemic seems to be creating psychopathic personalities in otherwise normal people.

Imo, the meth cartels are controlled by ruthless gangs and attract many
unsavory characters across the US. Many have sociopathic/psychopathic personalities, imo.


example from 1980s-
Speed Freak Killer tip-offs lead police to human bones at California ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...nes-california
Feb 13, 2012 – He and a childhood friend Loren Herzog became known as the Speed Freak Killers for a methamphetamine-fueled killing spree that claimed as ...

 

[TnVolsFan]

I know they don't typically release victim info, especially in sex assault cases, but does anyone know if they have released her general description/physical stature? I'm thinking in terms of her size/ht/wt in comparison to his. Did he choose a smaller/shorter woman bc she would be easier to subdue and transport (or maybe even blonde? Is he selecting blondes) or was she a taller/larger woman and/or brunette? Since there are two victims known now, victimology suggests we start with any similarities in victims. If their only common attributes are that they are both female and were alone at the time, than that changes things significantly in my mind.

I've wondered this myself.