CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

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I think killing the mother of your child makes you a bad father. I would think he feels like K is his property. In my experience, men often try to get child custody because it is cheaper than paying support to the mother and because it is a way to have control over the mother. Usually, they have cheap or free built-in childcare (their mother, new wife or gf, etc.). On the scale of bad dads, he's better than CW.

I meant before he killed her. Obviously.

 

[otto]

I don't think so. I think the break up is only coming from PF telling her mother that. I hold 0% of what he said to anyone to be even remotely truthful.

Even if they were not ending their relationship, wouldn't the mother of a 15 month old child be thinking about socialization with peers for the child? It seems odd to me that the child was dragged around to work with PF and looked after by whomever was on site to babysit. That's no life for a child, and most mothers should want something more suitable for a child. Maybe she just started walking at 14 months and that marked the time when day to day care needed to change?

 

[MsBetsy]

Ending a relationship is a very big life change.
I think the information came from an aunt, but I don't have the link. I only know that it has been repeatedly stated here that they ended their relationship on Nov 22.

Yes, the VI did say that. I had asked how she came to know that but I'm not sure we ever got an answer. Her posts have been sporadic, likely because of the investigation. I do think it is possible that she may have broken it off that day, although many think that is a story made up by PF. We don't know if Kelsey told someone she broke up with him or if he told her mom that.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

The arrest came very quickly, something you rarely see in “no body” murder cases.

Their evidence must be strong.

Massguy - I certainly respect your knowledge and input to these forums and certainly hope this is the case - that the evidence they have so far is strong. I have a feeling that unless his accomplice sings like a canary or they can glean some info from her or his cellphone there is very slim chance of finding her unless some hiker, climber or hunter stumbles across the remains. I don't even want to entertain the idea of her never being found and they have to settle for something less than 1st degree - premeditated. I would never accept the fact he gets out in less than 20 years and still has a lot of his life ahead of him. It just would not be fair to KB. MOO

 

[heartgoesout]

Even if they were not ending their relationship, wouldn't the mother of a 15 month old child be thinking about socialization with peers for the child? It seems odd to me that the child was dragged around to work with PF and looked after by whomever was on site to babysit. That's no life for a child, and most mothers should want something more suitable for a child. Maybe she just started walking at 14 months and that marked the time when day to day care needed to change?

The one thing that I have learned as I've aged is that things I would never do or never say, or behave this way or do that, etc..surprises me everyday on what people say, behave and do.

 

[Kapua]

I don't think so. I think the break up is only coming from PF telling her mother that. I hold 0% of what he said to anyone to be even remotely truthful.

I'm 99% sure that's the case. PF had to tell LE that they'd broken up; otherwise, a custody exchange on Thanksgiving day would not make sense. Not that any of the other things he did make sense, either. MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

Massguy - I certainly respect your knowledge and input to these forums and certainly hope this is the case - that the evidence they have so far is strong. I have a feeling that unless his accomplice sings like a canary or they can glean some info from her or his cellphone there is very slim chance of finding her unless some hiker, climber or hunter stumbled across the remains. I don't even want to entertain the idea of her never being found and they have to settle for something less than 1st degree - premeditated. I would never accept the fact he gets out in less than 20 years and still has a lot of his life ahead of him. It just would not be fair to KB. MOO

Fortunately, they don’t need a body to prove that she is dead.

He is charged with first degree murder, and I’m confident that there is good reason for that.

They know that he solicited someone to kill her, and that means they have a person who can testify to that, or some sort of strong evidence that this interaction took place.

He’s going away for life, body or not.

I ain’t scared.

 

[BingoBongo]

I would think that men who need to control women, but who are unsuccessful in gaining that control in the first 6 months, probably move on to an easier target. However, it has always struck me as odd that Kelsey did not have a circle of friends who raised the alarm when she vanished. Isolation from friends and family is usually one of the first steps in a controlling relationship, and Kelsey certainly seemed to be isolated from friends and family.

Sadly, it's been my experience (personal and observed) that men who harm women are all about control, and sometimes the most psychotic will make a game of it..."let's see how long she can hold out" types. Those gamers, I believe to be the most dangerous. As I said in a previous post, they seem to relish the toying aspect of abuse.

I assume he'd already convinced her to move to CO, so he had at least one "win".

 

[Irmese]

I meant before he killed her. Obviously.

Not meant as skewering you at all. I think he likes being seen as a good father, but I think it is part of the façade he puts up.

 

[PrairieWind]

Even if they were not ending their relationship, wouldn't the mother of a 15 month old child be thinking about socialization with peers for the child? It seems odd to me that the child was dragged around to work with PF and looked after by whomever was on site to babysit. That's no life for a child, and most mothers should want something more suitable for a child. Maybe she just started walking at 14 months and that marked the time when day to day care needed to change?

Even assuming they were not romantic anymore, I think they may have been ok with this set up at least for now. Neither is paying child support (which can be very difficult for the non custodial parent) and they weren’t having to pay for child care (which is staggeringly expensive for a child this age). A lot of non married couples would love to have this arrangement. As the child got older then more socializing would be important but not for a year or more. As a parent, day care is where your child goes to get sick!! Then you take time off from work but pay the same. Ouch!!

 

[girlhasnoname]

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I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for a VI to post with any frequency or in depth discussion of an on going investigation. She was most probably instructed by LE to not post or share on any MB or SM.

The time that PF had custody of Baby K before his arrest must have been an unimaginable tightrope to walk for LE and the family.

 

[MsBetsy]

Another study about murder and body disposal:

"The theory proposed in this study was that offenders will operate within their awareness space. In most cases, it appears that the chosen crime site is not random, rather a selected place within the offender’s knowledge space (Brantingham & Brantingham, 1993:5). When examining the disposal sites, all of the offender’s were familiar with the area. In 47 percent of the child, 25 percent of the young adult and 50 percent of the adult cases, the offender knew the area because he lived nearby. Other offenders knew the disposal sites because they had camped in the area, worked nearby, travelled through the area, and a couple of offenders had committed previous crimes in the area. In this study 62 percent of offenders planned ahead of time where they would dispose of their victims."​

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/56371942.pdf

It would help to know whether the offenders in the study were serial killers or killers in intimate partner homicides. It may make a difference.

 

[Jupiter05]

True story and not meant to go off topic but it is kinda on topic. I went through a divorce when my son was a teenager. Hooked up with my junior high school crush at a high school reunion shortly after. I grew up with him. Thought this was the real deal. He was kind, loving, supportive and took a big interest in my son. He lived in a small mountain town not far from Woodland Park. My son was struggling with issues surrounding the divorce. He grew to love and trust this man. We moved up to this small mountain town on top of a mountain where there was a gate, like PF's. There were cows, horses, chickens. We were isolated from my friends and family. It was a family property. The emotional and physical abuse started and it was life changing. No one can hear and the family living in different outbuildings and campers ignored it. It was gaslighting. At first I felt loved and protected, then I was in fear for my and my sons lives. The family was complicit. I will never ever forgive myself for putting my son and I in that horrible situation. I could have very easily been KB. There is so much danger out there everywhere, and looks can be deceiving. Other families had no idea. This was a church going family. Just sayin'. Doubt I will ever recover emotionally, nor my son. But we did it. There are strange families out there who appear to be normal. IMO And they protect their blood above everything. Edited to say that I had a good job and my own money that was snuffed out due to this man and his families weird beliefs. I was a trusting and vulnerable person, and I see Kelsey this way. For a time, we lost everything....our souls, our self respect, our innocence , and our security. But we got out, in a bilzzard with what we had on our backs.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Fortunately, they don’t need a body to prove that she is dead.

He is charged with first degree murder, and I’m confident that there is good reason for that.

They know that he solicited someone to kill her, and that means they have a person who can testify to that, or some sort of strong evidence that this interaction took place.

He’s going away for life, body or not.

I ain’t scared.

I will be the first to admit I know nothing about the legal process but I did sit on a jury once in a criminal trial. But I am sure the judicial system works the way it does for a reason and those involved are doing their best.
I just don't want a big injustice to happen because of some slick talking lawyer coupled with some panty waisted judge deciding that PF didn't get enough hugs when he was little and therefore plea bargain him something lower where he is out walking the streets a free man before he is 50 years old. That would be hard for most of us to accept. I am sure there are many advocates on this forum of rehabilitating some of these criminals and I can accept that to a point. But when you take the life of a mother of a 15 month old child I think reality has to set in. MOO

 

[dkryder]

OK. thanks for the feedback on my comment about PF getting into the truck holding the child. however, it all looked like a very well rehearsed move to me. like he had to have done it multiple times before. like some people i see holding several bags of groceries up over the steering wheel. like i said, i'm no parent but i'm an uncle 7 times over. so, a 1 y.o. child is ok getting into a car seat across the front seat of a truck? and the thing about news cameras, if ya got nothing to hide and you're such a great guy then why the complete loss of ability to have a spine and face the cameras? why not be the professional, great, nice, caring, good dad all your homies say you are and let everyone else see it?

 

[BingoBongo]

True story and not meant to go off topic but it is kinda on topic. I went through a divorce when my son was a teenager. Hooked up with my junior high school crush at a high school reunion shortly after. I grew up with him. Thought this was the real deal. He was kind, loving, supportive and took a big interest in my son. He lived in a small mountain town not far from Woodland Park. My son was struggling with issues surrounding the divorce. He grew to love and trust this man. We moved up to this small mountain town on top of a mountain where there was a gate, like PF's. There were cows, horses, chickens. We were isolated from my friends and family. It was a family property. The emotional and physical abuse started and it was life changing. No one can hear and the family living in different outbuildings and campers ignored it. It was gaslighting. At first I felt loved and protected, then I was in fear for my and my sons lives. The family was complicit. I will never ever forgive myself for putting my son and I in that horrible situation. I could have very easily been KB. There is so much danger out there everywhere, and looks can be deceiving. Other families had no idea. This was a church going family. Just sayin'. Doubt I will ever recover emotionally, nor my son. But we did it. There are strange families out there who appear to be normal. IMO And they protect their blood above everything.

Happy you both are out and okay!!!! Not that versed on documented family dynamics of all abusers, but the one's (abusers) I have known come from families that enable, are complicit and are what is often referred to as "flying monkeys".

 

[otto]

Even assuming they were not romantic anymore, I think they may have been ok with this set up at least for now. Neither is paying child support (which can be very difficult for the non custodial parent) and they weren’t having to pay for child care (which is staggeringly expensive for a child this age). A lot of non married couples would love to have this arrangement. As the child got older then more socializing would be important but not for a year or more. As a parent, day care is where your child goes to get sick!! Then you take time off from work but pay the same. Ouch!!

BBM

I have a different opinion about child care. I think that the first 6 years are the most critical in development. Socialization, stability, structure, routine etc. is very important even at 15 months. The priority should be about the child's wellbeing, not the parent's convenience. The child was well past the age of being dragged around with PF while he worked.

If Kelsey or her parents realized/believed that the child had her own needs, that conversation could have put PF on the defensive such that he may have felt that he was losing control of their child. The financial free ride would be over.

At 15 months, most children are walking, climbing, talking, exploring and soaking up the world. What sort of care could she receive with the donkeys?

 

[otto]

It would help to know whether the offenders in the study were serial killers or killers in intimate partner homicides. It may make a difference.

The first study I posted relates to domestic homicide, the second is non-familial homicide.

Both somewhat apply since they did not live together, but were intimate at some time.

 

[MsBetsy]

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It makes a huge difference knowing whether she initiated a breakup or he made up the story. Either way it provides him with a motive, although he may have said it to make it look like she just took off and needed some time to herself. Imo

 

[Kapua]

I was hoping that we'd find out what they found in ID today, or that LE would arrest whoever it is that inspired the solicitation for murder charge.