CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

[Inthedetails]

IF this goes to trial, the defense will be ALL over this and it will
be a HUGE effort to overcome for DA. IE- planted evidence.

I think it will be okay. I think a huge amount of blood soaked into the floor. My opinion only, not fact.

jmo

 

[Sweetsbeach]

I've read that the most successful liars are the ones who embellish and distort the truth, not the ones who make up a complete story. I think KK is the first type and PF is the second.

We have no idea how much blood there was and we probably never will know. Perhaps KK is exaggerating to make PF look worse. Same thing with the tooth and the bloody baby toys - those are details guaranteed to turn a jury's stomach against PF, but there's no actual evidence - only the word of one known liar talking about another known liar.

It still seems to me that although it KK has a solid alibi for Thanksgiving Day, there's no actual solid proof of when KB died. I know how I would see it, knowing just what we know now, if I were a juror, but some might see it as 'reasonable doubt'. If you can accept the possibility that KB wasn't actually killed on Thanksgiving Day, then you've opened the door to the possibility that KK was the real killer.

I think much is going to depend on what was said in texts available to LE. I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges to cellphone pings as reliable evidence of where each phone's owner was, meaning even seemingly incriminating texts might not be what they appear to be.

I think the 'bones' of KK's story are probably pretty accurate and I think she's unquestionably put her own 'spin' on what details to include and what to leave out. It's going to be very interesting now to see how PF tries to 'spin' his way out. IMHO, she's better at putting together a coherent story, but he's got a lot of time to think and a lawyer to work with to tighten up his own story.

IMO KB died when LE believes. Remember, KB's phone travels with PF's to his home that Thanksgiving evening. Then he makes calls to her phone, both phones together pinging in Florissant, tower sector facing Frazee's residence. Yet PF said he wasn't with KB Thanksgiving night because he hasn't seen her since the last time he was at her home at the baby exchange in an alley...which we know isn't true.

Plus his Mommy dearest who can put a nail in this plead the 5th. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the actual trial.

 

[ab01]

If they could see it, then CBI should have been able to see it, MOO. They’re trained investigators!

Yep they should have although I do believe it was a drop on the underside of the toilet bowl. They missed it probably shouldn’t have but they did apparently. They are human and I’m sure they are kicking themselves. But there definitely wasn’t huge swipes of blood smeared everywhere that was visible to the naked eye. Moo

 

[margarita25]

Here’s another thing I don’t get with these dumbasses: Since this was obviously premeditated, why did PF do this in the house, and in that manner, where there would be so much blood evidence? I mean, there are a million other places and ways he could have done this which would potentially bode better for him, evidence wise.

IMO PF enjoyed the sick game and brutality, he was obsessed with this “beating” thing considering the second and third solications.

Those poor animals in his care.

 

[oviedo]

Yep they should have although I do believe it was a drop on the underside of the toilet bowl. They missed it probably shouldn’t have but they did apparently. They are human and I’m sure they are kicking themselves. But there definitely wasn’t huge swipes of blood smeared everywhere that was visible to the naked eye. Moo

And this was days after the murder IIRC - doesn't blood turn a darker color over time? I've cut my foot and missed droplets on my tile - it looks like dirt after a few days IMO. Not making excuses but just wondering what it looked like after all that time? maybe I will google this and see

 

[Esma]

I am just not believing that KKL wasn’t in Colorado on Thanksgiving. And SF knows it. I really think KKL did the killing, or they both did it. I don’t believe her story at all.

 

[Aydrianna523]

While all true, I think the blood that was able to be seen by the naked eye was extremely minimal. I think it was only revealed how much there was when they sprayed the luminal. Moo

Yes, but upthread it was said that it wasn't luminol that worked but something called blue star...

 

[1mtroyal]

I don’t think he ever gave the gun back to her.

Two references to her getting the gun back were:
-PF’s convo with Berreth’s after KB went missing that was littered with untruths.
-Text from KB’s phone evening of 11/22 when she likely was no longer with us.

I’m guessing the gun never left the ranch. Too precious in his scheme.

I think at least part of the reason he called KK about her “mess” was because he is a spoiled mama’s boy. He did make a small effort to clean with baby wipes. When he realized it was going to be more work than he anticipated, he had a tantrum. Already mad at KK for not following through. So it became her mess.

I was wondering if PF did any cleaning. And then I read today on Yahoo news that the search of his ranch home found blood on a bleach bottle and mop (results are not back yet.)Those were probably items he used to clean up a little.

 

[ab01]

Yes, but upthread it was said that it wasn't luminol that worked but something called blue star...

I believe blue star is a specific type of luminol moo

ETA BLUESTAR Forensic - Chemistry and history

 

[Mercedes]

I was wondering if PF did any cleaning. And then I read today on Yahoo news that the search of his ranch home found blood on a bleach bottle and mop (results are not back yet.)Those were probably items he used to clean up a little.

He used baby wipes. What a Twitt!

 

[Inthedetails]

I am just not believing that KKL wasn’t in Colorado on Thanksgiving. And SF knows it. I really think KKL did the killing, or they both did it. I don’t believe her story at all.

I am on the fence. Her father says she was in ID. The friend can testify to the date she loaned her vehicle. Cellphone records will be critical as well.

Yet, it does seem like she was there. I wonder if she slipped into the house with the bat while KB was at the grocery store that morning. I've had a weird feeling about that grocery store run from the start - seems like a set up to get her out of the house.

How did the bat get into the house?

If PF tells KB to put a sweater over her eyes to guess the scent of a candle (weird), did he have the bat in his hand when he asked her to do that? Or did he tell her to sit there with a sweater on her head while he somehow got the bat? Or...was she blindfolded by one of them while the other fetched the bat?

The store, the bat, the sweater, the candle....it's all weird. Something is still missing from the story, imo. Is that missing piece KK? IDK.

jmo

 

[margarita25]

I was wondering if PF did any cleaning. And then I read today on Yahoo news that the search of his ranch home found blood on a bleach bottle and mop (results are not back yet.)Those were probably items he used to clean up a little.

What dumba$$ keeps the bloody mop?

 

[Reachingfornettles]

If they could see it, then CBI should have been able to see it, MOO. They’re trained investigators!

The Investigators were searching for a missing person not a murder. That's what the officer said on stand.

 

[oviedo]

Here’s another thing I don’t get with these dumbasses: Since this was obviously premeditated, why did PF do this in the house, and in that manner, where there would be so much blood evidence? I mean, there are a million other places and ways he could have done this which would potentially bode better for him, evidence wise.

IMO PF enjoyed the sick game and brutality, he was obsessed with this “beating” thing considering the second and third solications.

Those poor animals in his care.

Wonder if beating her in her own home was part of the thrill? She bought the townhome in May IIRC. Continued punishment - desecrate the house she lived in with her baby and presumably loved?? Why else? JMO

 

[dkryder]

Here’s another thing I don’t get with these dumbasses, since this was obviously premeditated, why did PF do this in the house, and in that manner, where there would be so much blood evidence? I mean, there are a million other places and ways he could have done this which would potentially bode better for him, evidence wise.

IMO PF enjoyed the sick game and brutality, he was obsessed with this “beating” thing considering the second and third solications.

Those poor animals in his care.

i was thinking the same. for instance the 2 where out late the night of 11/21-11/22 supposedly to "check on cattle" i read. the farm would seem to me to be a better location. all i can think of is something happened to prevent an attempt there, so then the 2 were at his farm later and she was making trips to get medicine, could have been another opportunity blown. so all i can think of is the condo was a easy kill zone, KB was captive there, he was really angry about not getting it done and blew up. just my opinions.

 

[ab01]

What dumba$$ keeps the bloody mop?

Survey says: *ding* *ding *ding* PF

 

[Mercedes]

Talking about security for PF, what about KK? If she is the DA’s number one witness for the prosecution, she may need to be protected.

Surely LE has her on tape, but she should be present for cross examination by the defense. And, in person trumps a recording every time. IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

What dumba$$ keeps the bloody mop?

A lazy one?

jmo

 

[ajaylee]

IMO KB died when LE believes. Remember, KB's phone travels with PF's to his home that Thanksgiving evening. Then he makes calls to her phone, both phones together pinging in Florissant, tower sector facing Fraser's residence. Yet PF said he wasn't with KB because the last time he saw her was PF baby exchange in an alley...which we know isn't true.

Plus his Mommy dearest who can put a nail in this plead the 5th. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the actual trial.

I agree with you, I am just trying to imagine what the defense will say, what kind of loopholes might come up that would sway a juror. One juror getting hung up on one point - that's all it takes.

We know where cellphones were - we don't always know whose hands those cellphones were in. We do already know that people were playing fast-and-loose with cellphones and fake texts. Can the defense use that to suggest that just because two cellphones were pinging at the ranchette, that doesn't mean they were in PF's hands? Could KK have been standing at the gate with both phones and PF didn't even know it?

Another oddity re: phones. It appears that on Thanksgiving Day, PF's phone was at KB's all afternoon, even though we know he went back to SF's for dinner. That doesn't make sense - except I believe he and KK both had burner phones and we have no actual evidence that I'm aware of about how and when those burner phones were used - other than KK saying she and KB exchanged phone numbers.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I'd be surprised if she even asked. KK was there with PF. SF didn't want to know any more.

"Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies"

I agree that SF wouldn't need to ask because she already knew. She was probably just checking on the progress, and seeing if PF needed momma's help. JMO.