CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[v0x]

That's the concern. The ex-wife implies that the suspect's mother knew what was being burned simply because the mother asked about it. I doubt they answered by telling her that it was his wife, so chances are although the mother was curious, she was fed a lie that was plausible.

I’ve seen no reporting that PFs mother asked anything about the fire. Please link if you have. Thanks

 

[Herat]

Poor thing was probably secretly hoping she'd get a Thanksgiving Day dinner invite, instead of the bleak prospect of staying home all along, on a major holiday.

I suspect that as a busy working mother with an active near-toddler, she might welcome a day off at home all to herself, rather than a dinner in a household where there is already tension. It’s not like she would be there with HER family.

If you’re a working mom, a quiet day off can be awfully nice

 

[ab01]

What makes this case all the much more sad:
my interpretation only!

It seems to me PF wooed KB they started up a relationship, he was the classic wolf in sheeps clothing.

PF made her promises that he knew he wouldn't keep, Their own ranch out in the country he would make big money etc.

Perfect house perfect family and so on.

He gets her pregnant, she asks for a commitment and rightfully so.

He lies and says its going to happen I just have to make more money, prices on livestock are low etc. just give me more time.

I think his lies finally caught up to him, and KB started asking questions he couldn't lie his way out of.

PF's true colors start to show through and he realizes that he can't lead her on forever bc she wasn't buying his bs anymore.

PF decided that control of his child was worth more than her life, bc how dare she call him out on his lies.

PF starts to look for away to eliminate her and save face and protect his property(his child).

That my friends is a true scocialpath/pyschopath and the heart of this sad reality.

I think thats pretty close to what this whole case boils down to IMO

So incredibly sad!

Especially even more tragic, as I think KB was worth more than a million PF's

JMO how do you think my aim is?

ETA: I think KK was a mere convenience to pf, somebody that he knew was obsessed with him and would do anything to be with him.

 

[girlhasnoname]

According to Fox 31 news from the press conference today they are bringing in specialists to help with the landfill hunt....Said based on the information they have gathered it all points to the landfill.

Godspeed to all involved in the search of the landfill. The last insulting degradation of KB by these two horrible excuses for a human beings ever.

 

[Dave F.]

They'll be looking for a partially burned black tote bag, aren't they? Shaped in a "lump" according to KK?

It's not a bag. It was a hard plastic tote, like a tool box' with silver handles (probably electro-galvanized steel). With a hard plastic lid, possibly hinged. LE has the exact description of what it was, as KKL showed them 3 more on PF's property on the 21st of December, just after his arrest. It was burned in a tank almost exactly like is shown at the link. IMO
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon

 

[otto]

“PF is stupid, but make no mistake, he is as evil as they come.

He drove this plot; he wanted Kelsey dead.

There is no evidence that KK was the person who pushed him to kill Kelsey, and every indication that the opposite is true.

In August, he was thinking about gaining sole custody of their baby.

That appears to be the motive, not KK.

Saying that KK is the one who is “cold and calculating” and PF is merely “some stupid man,” doesn’t jibe with the facts here.

It makes a man who literally bashed Kelsey’s face in, into some innocent pawn, and shifts the blame to KK.

Hell no.”
——————————————————
Respectfully,we will have to agree to disagree. But I do think he is evil and easily manipulated by someone with a bit more intelligence

This is supported by the fact that he tried to convince KK to murder Kelsey a couple of times, but she refused. She was the pawn in this scenario. Eventually, he killed Kelsey, but he still got KK to clean up his mess - thereby involving her and binding her to silence about the previous plans.

 

[MemPat]

I wonder if during the long evening before, PF made sure to invite KB to Chez Frazee for T-Day dinner, assuring she would be at home making plans and getting Baby K ready. He is meanwhile planning to kill her before the real T-Day dinner, so he has an alibi.

When he arrives at KB’s, she and Baby K are dressed up and getting ready to leave with him.

Then he attacks? Has to have a quick shower to clean himself, get the phone, not gonna make it to SF’s by 2;30 when SF2 & family arrive....

I wonder what he told SF when he showed up with Baby K but not KB. SF must have known KB was there the night before. I wonder if SF will ever tell us.

I would imagine there is much SF will never tell us.

 

[sunshineandlove]

Could life insurance be a motive? KB had a good job that might have included insurance benefits. From what I can gather PF was self employed so the only way he would get one is to go out and do it himself and pay for it. If she was "engaged" and she thought PF was her fiance, would she put him as the beneficiary of a policy through work? Her idea would be that Baby K was supported if something happened to her, she trusted him. His idea would be...

Also, the fact that they shared a phone plan bothers me. She thought it was because they were sharing something and saving money but I now think he was stalking and controlling her right away. Bet it was his idea.

 

[otto]

No. LE has already recovered burned plastic blobs with evidence of an accelerant from the burn site.

I believe LE is looking for small charred bone material

Thank you for this - I have been out of the loop for a couple of weeks.

In the case I mentioned earlier, by the time it was charred, it was ash (Liknes, O'Brien). There were some teeth, if I recall correctly, but nothing more.

 

[MemPat]

Has anyone tried to understand or speculated if what we think we know happened if KKL actually did what she said she did? If it's true, I cannot figure out what was in it for her. I have a few ideas but none of these would even make me get out of bed to put my shoes on let alone drive hundreds of miles several times for someone I didn't really even have a "real" relationship with to clean up a murder mess.

What would do it for her? What was her investment?

Guy from back in the day "hot" rodeo guy says he can't stop thinking about her. (Meanwhile he has a girlfriend he moved across the country likely by the same manipulative tactics and has a toddler with her.)

Guy who she considers a friend, a past love interest and possible future with calls and starts a conversation with a girl he has learned of her weaknesses in the past, and starts grooming her with charm that perhaps she was the one after all? She is in a stagnant place in her relationship and welcomes the attention. (That quiet horse life set in and suddenly a husband and kids with a mortgage payment in the same small town you grew up in isn't what you thought it was. PF secretly calls while she's on her way home from work and get's her all riled up about the what if.) Husband has no idea. Or he does, but they don't acknowledge it.

She can move to the ranch, bring her kids, after all it's "his" ranch. If only she can prove she really loves him. There's just one problem.......

Really low self esteem because hers came from her success as a big fish in a small sea back in the day in high school, and her rodeo achievements.

Just pure hate for the competition. Or did she even know but then when she found out she got pissed and signed up? Some kind of promise about the future? Together?

Sex life? (Morbidly wonder if this bonding moment turned PF or them on where they were intimate before she went home after burning what she knows to be KB's remains.) Did they get off on laughing about and discussing this? Or just one of them did? Sorry I know it's sick but I have to believe KKL spent the night after THAT day. And they don't see each other that often.

Or did he completely use her as narcissists do and before she knew it she was in over her head and panicked? You would think there would be blinking red lights, huge flags, slaps in the face, with sirens and horns but sometimes the grooming and manipulation is beyond what we can see.

All of the above? Some of the above? None? PF doesn't strike me as being a ladies man and not even good looking or charming off the bat.

Hard to understand, just wondering what other sleuthers think if you were in her shoes. What on earth could have made her do this as a human, a woman, a mother, a girlfriend? Really struggling with it. Would like to hear others idea of what would encourage this type of insane behavior.

I personally would have called LE if I heard this idea from ANYONE more than a very small joke or passing small conversation people have about their ex. Actual directions or plans, burner phones, sitting in someone's driveway, plane tickets, rental/borrow cars, driving hundreds of miles, bringing bleach and hazmat suit, leaving keys, metal rods, how-to's? WTH

This is speculation and I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone. MOO, MOS, JMO

Good thoughts, Sunshine. Maybe PF started off acting as though he was teasing with KK about killing KB, grooming her.

Then as time went by he started cooking up the story about KB being crazy, obsessive and abusing her sweet baby with an iron.

Maybe Mama F talked with KK and fed the story.

Then one day the murder plans got serious and they were off to the races? MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Could life insurance be a motive? KB had a good job that might have included insurance benefits. From what I can gather PF was self employed so the only way he would get one is to go out and do it himself and pay for it. If she was "engaged" and she thought PF was her fiance, would she put him as the beneficiary of a policy through work? Her idea would be that Baby K was supported if something happened to her, she trusted him. His idea would be...

Also, the fact that they shared a phone plan bothers me. She thought it was because they were sharing something and saving money but I now think he was stalking and controlling her right away. Bet it was his idea.

I’d buy the life insurance theory if he had left a body behind.

When people kill for that motive, they want a relatively quick payout.

What they aren’t willing to do, is wait years until that happens.

Without a body, that’s one hell of a long game, and an uncommon way to do it.

 

[otto]

I suspect that as a busy working mother with an active near-toddler, she might welcome a day off at home all to herself, rather than a dinner in a household where there is already tension. It’s not like she would be there with HER family.

If you’re a working mom, a quiet day off can be awfully nice

That, and it's normal that after a couple splits they take turns with holidays. If he had their daughter for Thanksgiving, she would have their daughter for Christmas.

 

[Herat]

Grooming her.

This is exactly what the Narcissist does. Suggests something as a test to see how you react. Then suggests something else to keep testing how far you will go. When you agree to a behaviour, a thought, a plan then the next one will go a little farther.

Kinda the frog in a pot won’t jump until it’s too late

 

[otto]

What makes this case all the much sadder:
my interpretation only!

It seems to me PF wooed KB they started up a relationship, he was the classic sheep in wolves clothing.

PF made her promises that he knew he wouldn't keep, Their own ranch out in the country he would make big money etc.

Perfect house perfect family and so on.

He gets her pregnant, she asks for a commitment and rightfully so.

He lies and says its going to happen I just have to make more money, prices on livestock are low etc. just give me more time.

I think his lies finally caught up to him, and KB started asking questions he couldn't lie his way out of.

PF's true colors start to show through and he realizes that he can't lead her on forever bc she wasn't buying his bs anymore.

PF decided that control of his child was worth more than her life, bc how dare she call him out on his lies.

PF starts to look for away to eliminate her and save face and protect his property(his child).

That my friends is a true scocialpath/pyschopath and the heart of this sad reality.

I think thats pretty close to what this whole case boils down to IMO

So incredibly sad!

So very sad as I think KB was worth more than a million PF's

JMO how do you think my aim is?

ETA: I think KK was a mere convenience to pf, somebody that he knew was obsessed with him and would do anything to be with him.

I don't think she necessarily called him out on her lies, but I do think that when she bought the condo, he realized that he was not going to get their child as easily as he had hoped.

 

[Steelslady]

I'd go so far as to say she cleaned, but what she left, was left there (staged) to make it look like she took off on her own.
She calculated her every move in KB's house!
Moo

Who deliberately takes off on their own, and leaves food out on the counter, and for that matter, in the fridge?

If that was the best that they could do to set her up, they epic failed. That wouldn't make sense to anybody.

 

[ab01]

I don't think she necessarily called him out on her lies, but I do think that when she bought the condo, he realized that he was not going to get their child as easily as he had hoped.

BBM
I think there is a misunderstanding, I do not believe KB ever lied, but I believe PF told many lies!

 

[otto]

It's not a bag. It was a hard plastic tote, like a tool box' with silver handles (probably electro-galvanized steel). With a hard plastic lid, possibly hinged. LE has the exact description of what it was, as KKL showed them 3 more on PF's property on the 21st of December, just after his arrest. It was burned in a tank almost exactly like is shown at the link. IMO
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon

Thank you. Incinerated, then. I understand now. If they find that, they find her ashes and that is important to her family. Makes sense.

 

[Dave F.]

From the description, I envision to black tote to be similar to this Northern Tool Model from Harbor Freight:
Secure tools or paperwork in this roomy JTT storage trunk. Features all-weather construction and is fitted with heavy-duty hardware and a reinforced padlock hole for security. Made of 100 recycled plastic. U.S.A. Oversize shipping charge applies. Material 100 recycled plastic, Lock Type Padlock hole padlock not included, Includes Interior hanging file folder slots, Handles qty. 2, Handle Type Molded handles, Handle Included Yes, Color Black, Dimensions L x W x H in. 32 1/2 x 15 3/4 x 13 3/4, Product Type Trunk. All-weather construction Heavy-duty hardware Reinforced padlock hole Large molded handles for easy carrying Interior hanging file folder slots Solid steel hinge rod Meets airline requirements 100 recycled plastic Model Number: 2820-20P
IMO

 

[gngr~snap]

Wait a dang min!
This has to be wrong!
Right?
Did she clean up with the body still there???

"The arrest warrant states that Frazee and Kenney together drove Berreth’s body to Frazee’s Nash Ranch in Fremont County, where they placed it, reportedly stuffed in a black bag, in a barn atop haystacks. Later, they retrieved the remains"
Investigators depict gruesome murder scene with new details in Berreth murder case

Moo

 

[MemPat]

They'll be looking for a partially burned black tote bag, aren't they? Shaped in a "lump" according to KK?

I pictured KK seeing the lump while the rectangular shape of the "tote" melted down as the fire burned.

KB's body could have then started to burn and it sounds like the tote ended up as black balls of plastic in the dirt.

Her flesh would have burned quickly and maybe, just maybe some of her DNA mixed with that black plastic.

Slow burning pieces of bone, especially large bones like femurs may have been scooped up by PF and could be in the landfill.

I once thought he would have dumped her into a mine shaft but there must be a good reason to order an expensive, prolonged examination of designated areas of the dump/landfill. MOO