CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

Well a close second to our wants and needs, is that justice is done.

This trial is going to take place as scheduled, which I would take over live Tweeting and a delay.

It’s not as if we won’t know what’s happening in the courtroom; we’ll just have to wait a couple hours to know the specifics.

If I keep telling myself this, I think I’ll be less frustrated than I currently am.

You're right:

Big picture, this trial is starting as scheduled. That's remarkable, really.

A lot of people here couldn't even envision this trial starting on time.

So there's that.

But this Decorum Order is hugely problematic in terms of limiting the general public's ability to closely follow the proceedings.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on any/all live reporting in the courtroom, there's no way we're going to get a verbatim account of what the witnesses are saying. No way.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on video recording, we're not going to be able to read the witnesses' body language, their expressions, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with each other.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on audio recording, we're not going to be able to hear or hear the witnesses' tone of voice, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with one another.

The public is going to miss a whole lot of what's being conveyed verbally in the courtroom, and nearly all of what's being conveyed non-verbally in the courtroom.

Most of communication is non-verbal, so the fact that the public will get no access to that, is going to make it almost impossible to follow what's really happening in that courtroom.

We as members of the public are going to be completely dependent upon reporters to get their frantic, scribbled tweets, as well as their courtroom observations, entirely accurate.

Because we've seen here what happens when there's even the slightest misstatement. Chaos ensues.

Reporters are fallible. Consequently, there will be some misreporting of facts.

Without any courtroom audio or video available to fact-check the information we'll be getting via literally secondhand reports, this could all quickly degenerate into a massive version of the Chinese Telephone Game.

This is horrible decision-making on the part of this judge, and by horrible, I mean, absolutely terrible.

Can someone please explain, for example, how audio recording of the trial proceedings in any way, shape, manner or form disrupt the court proceedings? @gitana1, can you please read the Decorum Order and let us know if this is reasonable and our concerns are unfounded?

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

You're right:

Big picture, this trial is starting as scheduled. That's remarkable, really.

A lot of people here couldn't even envision this trial starting on time.

So there's that.

But this Decorum Order is hugely problematic in terms of limiting the general public's ability to closely follow the proceedings.

Since there's a ban on any/all live reporting in the courtroom, there's no way we're going to get a verbatim account of what the witnesses are saying. No way.

Since there's a ban on video recording, we're not going to be able to read the witnesses' body language, their expressions, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with each other.

Since there's a ban on audio recording, we're not going to be able to hear or hear the witnesses' tone of voice, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with one another.

The public is going to miss a whole lot of what's being conveyed verbally in the courtroom, and nearly all of what's being conveyed non-verbally in the courtroom.

Most of communication is non-verbal, so the fact that the public will get no access to that, is going to make it almost impossible to follow what's really happening in that courtroom.

We as members of the public are going to be completely dependent upon reporters to get their frantic, scribbled tweets, as well as their courtroom observations, entirely accurate.

Because we've seen here what happens when there's even the slightest misstatement. Chaos ensues.

This is horrible decision-making on the part of this judge.

Can someone please explain, for example, how audio recordings of the trial proceedings in any way, shape, manner or form disrupt the court proceedings? @gitana1, can you please read the Decorum Order and let us know if this is reasonable and our concerns are unfounded?

JMO.

Are "scribbled tweets" done with Swype? I'm not really up to date on this skillset. Just asking.

 

[Dontknow?]

You can smoke pot and all legally, skii, get cold, see snow and make snow angels but you can't watch or hear a darn court proceeding that is to be public?

I wonder how many live news reports that have turned a case around due to evidence being conveyed on the witness stand & tweeted?

This stinks, but hey, I don't live there. Sucks for the many supporters of KB though. jmo

 

[Gardenista]

We know from the Chris Watts case that all of the info gets released after the fact. So I guess when it's over we'll have tons of info to go through.

 

[Alethea]

I really can't with this no bathroom thing. No coffee for anyone that morning. Yikes.

or like any morning for the 3 week trial. Rough.

Think about it from the perspective of the parties and the judge. It's extremely disruptive to have people walking in and out of the court room, opening and closing the doors, while you are trying to argue your case. The lawyers can't just get up and leave and come back. There will be scheduled breaks when people will be allowed to come and go.

Just imagine in this old building that there's a creaky door. Every time someone in the court wants to use the bathroom, the witness or person speaking will be distracted by the commotion in the back.

I am 100% for open courts but at the end of the day the trial has to be fair. You don't want the defense to be able to argue their client did not get a fair trial because of the media circus.

 

[Alethea]

If you're that upset by the order, you can go to the court like the public has done for hundreds of years. Video streaming is a new invention. If you're surprised that the law does not keep up with technology and the wants and needs of the internet-reared generation, I have a lot of bad news for you... Some state courts do not even put their dockets online.

 

[Seattle1]

Think about it from the perspective of the parties and the judge. It's extremely disruptive to have people walking in and out of the court room, opening and closing the doors, while you are trying to argue your case. The lawyers can't just get up and leave and come back. There will be scheduled breaks when people will be allowed to come and go.

Just imagine in this old building that there's a creaky door. Every time someone in the court wants to use the bathroom, the witness or person speaking will be distracted by the commotion in the back.

I am 100% for open courts but at the end of the day the trial has to be fair. You don't want the defense to be able to argue their client did not get a fair trial because of the media circus.

And this from a seasoned reporter that knows the Teller County courthouse. There are many built in distractions from the building itself. Some have sworn it's haunted too!

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
Replying to @SamKraemerTV

Especially while straining to hear over coughs, creaking seats and rumbling semis. This is gonna be a peach.

6:56 PM - 23 Oct 2019

ETA: a rumbling semi is a lorry, and they also rumble.

 

[Warwick7]

And this from a seasoned reporter that knows the Teller County courthouse. There are many built in distractions from the building itself. Some have sworn it's haunted too!

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
Replying to @SamKraemerTV

Especially while straining to hear over coughs, creaking seats and rumbling semis. This is gonna be a peach.

6:56 PM - 23 Oct 2019

ETA: a rumbling semi is a lorry, and they also rumble.

Oh boy........

 

[gitana1]

You're right:

Big picture, this trial is starting as scheduled. That's remarkable, really.

A lot of people here couldn't even envision this trial starting on time.

So there's that.

But this Decorum Order is hugely problematic in terms of limiting the general public's ability to closely follow the proceedings.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on any/all live reporting in the courtroom, there's no way we're going to get a verbatim account of what the witnesses are saying. No way.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on video recording, we're not going to be able to read the witnesses' body language, their expressions, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with each other.

Since Judge Sells issued a total ban on audio recording, we're not going to be able to hear or hear the witnesses' tone of voice, or observe how the attorneys and the witnesses interact with one another.

The public is going to miss a whole lot of what's being conveyed verbally in the courtroom, and nearly all of what's being conveyed non-verbally in the courtroom.

Most of communication is non-verbal, so the fact that the public will get no access to that, is going to make it almost impossible to follow what's really happening in that courtroom.

We as members of the public are going to be completely dependent upon reporters to get their frantic, scribbled tweets, as well as their courtroom observations, entirely accurate.

Because we've seen here what happens when there's even the slightest misstatement. Chaos ensues.

Reporters are fallible. Consequently, there will be some misreporting of facts.

Without any courtroom audio or video available to fact-check the information we'll be getting via literally secondhand reports, this could all quickly degenerate into a massive version of the Chinese Telephone Game.

This is horrible decision-making on the part of this judge, and by horrible, I mean, absolutely terrible.

Can someone please explain, for example, how audio recording of the trial proceedings in any way, shape, manner or form disrupt the court proceedings? @gitana1, can you please read the Decorum Order and let us know if this is reasonable and our concerns are unfounded?

JMO.

You gotta’ link me.

 

[Steelslady]

I really can't with this no bathroom thing. No coffee for anyone that morning. Yikes.

or like any morning for the 3 week trial. Rough.

Good thing I'm not on jury duty- they'd have to dismiss me. I'd fail that bladder control training within the first minute.

 

[GordianKnot]

You gotta’ link me.

Whoops, sorry, here you go!

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...rest/2018CR330/Frazee Decorum Order Trial.pdf

 

[katydid23]

Thanks for heads up on the new Decorum Order for the trial.

In a nutshell -- NO LIVE REPORTING from the Teller Courthouse property: courtroom, sidewalk, park, alley, parking (Bennett Ave., First St).

Reporters can use their laptops and silent phones inside the courtroom to take notes, compose their tweets, etc. but will have to cross the street away from the "property" to hit send and/or transmit their data-- flooding us with their tweets and trial updates!

I think we best propose runners for Sam to occupy eligible corners and shelters to accommodate us!

It is annoying. But I think there was a recent trial where the judge would not even allow anyone to take notes or compose tweets at all, while inside the courtroom. They were only allowed to quietly listen, and then go outside if they wanted to write things down.

Does anyone else remember that case?

 

[gitana1]

Whoops, sorry, here you go!

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Frazee Decorum Order Trial.pdf

It’s frustrating because the public has an interest in seeing justice occur in this case. But I guess reporters covering have to follow old fashioned reporting techniques to let us know what’s happening. We are so used to watching that we’re spoiled I guess.

I’m not sure why live tweeting is problematic once the jury is impaneled. Maybe he feels it will be distracting and affect jurors and witnesses if they know everything that happens is being live tweeted as it happens?

 

[Seattle1]

 

[Seattle1]

I’m not sure why live tweeting is problematic once the jury is impaneled. Maybe he feels it will be distracting and affect jurors and witnesses if they know everything that happens is being live tweeted as it happens?

^^SBM
I think it's in the Media thread-- @PommyMommy posted more tweets from reporters tonight commenting on the Decorum Order for PF trial. I recall one stating something to the effect that Judge was concerned that witnesses not allowed in courtroom would read the tweets and/or be distracted by them.

ETA: Found the tweet I was referencing:

Carol McKinley‏ @CarolAMcKinley
#PatrickFrazee trial judge is worried that key witnesses waiting to testify will monitor #breakingnews from live tweeting /reporting from the courtroom, so he's not allowing it. To report breaking news, reporters must leave the courthouse. #kelseyberreth @abc

4:17 PM - 23 Oct 2019

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

It is annoying. But I think there was a recent trial where the judge would not even allow anyone to take notes or compose tweets at all, while inside the courtroom. They were only allowed to quietly listen, and then go outside if they wanted to write things down.

Does anyone else remember that case?

Even though it's not being allowed, the best Trial by Tweet was WAT at the Arias trial. I still use the word "reclinating" for someone reclining in a chair. Sorry, your tag line brought back the memories of Juan. Horrific trial, but made so much easier with a little levity with their texts.

 

[?mysterian?]

We know from the Chris Watts case that all of the info gets released after the fact. So I guess when it's over we'll have tons of info to go through.

I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure, and here's why:

Thousands of Colorado court cases hidden from public view (IIRC, this was posted in a previous thread)

<snip>"Thousands of court cases across Colorado — hundreds of them involving violent felonies — are hidden from public view, concealed behind judges’ orders that can remain in effect for years, The Denver Post has found. More than 6,700 civil and criminal cases have been restricted from public access since 2013, usually by judges who agreed to a request from prosecutors or defense lawyers to shield them, The Post found."<snip>

 

[PommyMommy]

Dr. Mehmet Oz on Twitter (Video)
I’m sitting down today with a friend of missing mom Kelsey Berreth to discuss Berreth’s relationship with her fiancé Patrick Frazee - the man on trial for her murder.
8:00 AM - 24 Oct 2019

 

[?mysterian?]

I'm thinking catheterization.

Problem solved.

Well, KK is a nurse, and she'll probably have to be in town anyway for the trial, so, those needing/wanting that could just stop in PF's l'il tweet-free tent of secrecy and let her perform the procedure there before continuing on to the courtroom.

 

[NWLady]

Surely the judge, jurors and other courtroom personnel will be taking breaks, especially for lunch and possibly they will even between times as well. Every jury I have sat on, there was 15-20 minute random breaks at least once or twice during an 8 hour day, and always a lunch break. So, IMO, media/reporters will have breaks in between. JMO