CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

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MG you may be totally right. I have said so from the beginning. And since I haven’t seen evidence to convince me either way, I will try to answer you with what I think. You know, just my gut feeling.

They didn’t yet prove he returned to the house. They have a grainy picture of someone in a different color shirt but cannot know if it’s him. And I think there was a question of if the judge will allow it to be introduced as evidence. If he didn’t return then he didn’t lie.

Kelsey’s phone. That one stumps me. Unless KK was there and she had it. I can’t answer. At one point the pings show her phone traveling one direction and his another direction.

I’m not sure about the bank surveillance statement by the bank manager, who happens to be the mother of a girl PF dated supposedly. I believe her though.

As I said, I didn’t buy into the bat death. Maybe a beating. I never believed a sweater and candle story. Never happened. It’s possible he drugged KB or abducted her. We know the neighbors camera only picks up certain angles.

I think with KK as the killer it all fits because PF and she were in this together. Let me put it this way. KK wanted KB dead. Her reasoning doesn’t matter to me as I think she is crazy.

The minute I heard that the Doss employee said KB told them of a weirdo bringing her Starbucks coffee I knew KK had no qualms with murder as she said. If KB had drank that coffee she would have been dead.

Remember in the CBS video, KK said it was HER idea to put a lethal dose of Valium and Ambien in the coffee. If she didn’t taint the coffee, why take it to the door and deliver it?

We all need to see and hear the evidence. Right now we have the DA saying PF tried to solicit a hitman. When I mentioned that possibility you guys laughed at me.

I am saying this case is a mess because a young mother is dead and we have a psychotic other woman telling a story that gets PF convicted and gets her at most three years because she got caught. She lied to investigators and they went back after her and gave her the opportunity of hiring a good lawyer and getting a good deal. She should have been jailed and she never was.

I agree with the community rodeo neighbor who praised KK months ago and then changed her tune in the video. She said there is NOTHING KK can say now and that her community will judge her far more than a judge ever would.

Well apparently that is true because the DA only charged her with tampering with evidence. Big deal.

You make many good points, and they are very thoughtful and well written. I appreciate that, number one.

Question about the hitman theory (and if I was among those who laughed, my apologies).
If KK knew of a hitman, why would she not have reported that to the investigators, rather than roll on PF, a man she (once) loved?
 
You make many good points, and they are very thoughtful and well written. I appreciate that, number one.

Question about the hitman theory (and if I was among those who laughed, my apologies).
If KK knew of a hitman, why would she not have reported that to the investigators, rather than roll on PF, a man she (once) loved?

<modsnip: unnecessary, off topic>

There are many questions we don’t have answers for but I do believe investigators should have done a better job rather than taking KKs word. Her statement alone should have given them some red flags. Why would she report a hitman to investigators when she wouldn’t even call LE to report her own solicitation? (Why didn’t her friend, MS, report it? Watch the CBS video. MS raises her voice and defends herself like she is some saint. Multiply that times a thousand for KK)

I believe, at this moment and not knocking other theories, that KK and PF were in this together. I do believe PF or KK , doesn’t matter who, thought of bringing in a hitman and maybe they did.

I don’t think KK planned to turn on PF. Nor do I think she left blood for LE to find because she is a good person or because she was afraid of PF. Nonsense. She went to Vegas to party after the murder! She is NOT a good person.

She was the first one to get caught. She lied. She told investigators she never heard of KB. She told them she knew nothing about the murder. They KNEW she lied and let her go. She then hired a well known Denver lawyer, or her Aunt did. She agreed to meet with investigators with her lawyer present. She had days to think up a story. As I said, she is psychotic. Throwing PF under the bus was a minor inconvenience if it meant she got a good deal. And had the situation been reversed, PF would have turned on her as well.
 
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If KK is the killer, then why did PF return to the house?

Why did he lie about returning to the house?

Why did Kelsey’s phone leave when PF did?

Why was he so concerned about being seen on bank surveillance?

Why was Kelsey never seen or heard from again after Thanksgiving afternoon?

How did all the blood get over the bathroom?

I could probably come up with another couple dozen questions here.

That’s the point though. The story told by the evidence and by KK, seems to be overwhelming. It also seems to fit.

With KK being the killer, nothing fits, and we have more questions than answers.

Let’s examine you questions logically:
Q: If KK is the killer, then why did PF return to the house?
A: There is no proof that PF returned to the house. A furniture store security camera photo of a red truck with a white tote in the back just doesn’t cut it. PF’s red truck was parked in the Walmart lot at the time, without any tote. A distant security camera captured a figure in a white shirt or top, while PF wore nothing but gray t-shirts. Obviously, PF denies the allegation that he returned to the house to kill KB. The jury will hear and see both sides.

Q: Why did he lie about returning to the house?
A: How could he have lied? KK said he returned to the house. He denies it. It’s that simple.

Q: Why did Kelsey’s phone leave when PF did?
A: KB’s phone did not, in fact, appear to leave with PF. PF attempted two tomake two phone calls on his phone as he was leaving Woodland Park. The body of cell phone evidence shows that PF’s phone and KB’s phone were interlinked via Verizon’s “Calls to Other Devices” feature in the “Settings” section of the phone which dictated that every time one of the phones “pinged” on a new cell the other phone would then ping, if it was in the coverage of the same cell. PF’s phone pinged when he re-entered the main Woodland Park service cell, and KB’s did not. Again, PF obviously denies that he had possession of KB’s phone. The jury will hear and see both sides, based on all of that phone evidence.

Q: Why was he so concerned about being seen on bank surveillance?
A: The bank surveillance video clearly shows PF driving his red Toyota truck, with KF under the same blanket that she was under in the Safeway video of KB, proving that PF’s claim of the handoff outside the condo was legitimate. Why on earth would he NOT want a copy of that video?

Q: Why was Kelsey never seen or heard from again after Thanksgiving afternoon?
A: That is for the jury to decide. They are the only legal entity, other than the coroner, medical examiner or grand jury that can make a determination that death has occurred. Again, PF is obviously denying that he has any special knowledge of KB’s whereabouts.

Q: How did all the blood get over the bathroom?
A: PF would not be expected to explain that, under any circumstances. He is a cowboy, not a scientist. As of the cause hearing, none of the samples had actually been tested. The use of Blue Star only indicates what samples should be tested, but does not give results. LE cited “years of investigative experience” as the reason to believe it was in fact blood. Some of the samples were large enough to receive a field test for DNA, and returned a high likelihood that a majority of the samples were KB’s DNA. It stands to reason that the primary user of the bathroom should leave the most DNA samples on towel racks, door handles, shower curtains, etc. Ultimately, the only opinion on that which matters is the jury’s.

We should hear better answers as the trial progresses. To earn a matched set of eight “Guilty” verdicts, prosecution has to prove KK’s story is predominantly true. Your six questions clearly show that to be a tremendous challenge. As usual, all of this is just my opinion JMO
 
You make many good points, and they are very thoughtful and well written. I appreciate that, number one.

Question about the hitman theory (and if I was among those who laughed, my apologies).
If KK knew of a hitman, why would she not have reported that to the investigators, rather than roll on PF, a man she (once) loved?

Could she have hired the hit man? She seems to have done everything else, why leave that one task to the incompetent cowboy? JMO
 
Let’s examine you questions logically:
Q: If KK is the killer, then why did PF return to the house?
A: There is no proof that PF returned to the house. A furniture store security camera photo of a red truck with a white tote in the back just doesn’t cut it. PF’s red truck was parked in the Walmart lot at the time, without any tote. A distant security camera captured a figure in a white shirt or top, while PF wore nothing but gray t-shirts. Obviously, PF denies the allegation that he returned to the house to kill KB. The jury will hear and see both sides.

Q: Why did he lie about returning to the house?
A: How could he have lied? KK said he returned to the house. He denies it. It’s that simple.

Q: Why did Kelsey’s phone leave when PF did?
A: KB’s phone did not, in fact, appear to leave with PF. PF attempted two tomake two phone calls on his phone as he was leaving Woodland Park. The body of cell phone evidence shows that PF’s phone and KB’s phone were interlinked via Verizon’s “Calls to Other Devices” feature in the “Settings” section of the phone which dictated that every time one of the phones “pinged” on a new cell the other phone would then ping, if it was in the coverage of the same cell. PF’s phone pinged when he re-entered the main Woodland Park service cell, and KB’s did not. Again, PF obviously denies that he had possession of KB’s phone. The jury will hear and see both sides, based on all of that phone evidence.

Q: Why was he so concerned about being seen on bank surveillance?
A: The bank surveillance video clearly shows PF driving his red Toyota truck, with KF under the same blanket that she was under in the Safeway video of KB, proving that PF’s claim of the handoff outside the condo was legitimate. Why on earth would he NOT want a copy of that video?

Q: Why was Kelsey never seen or heard from again after Thanksgiving afternoon?
A: That is for the jury to decide. They are the only legal entity, other than the coroner, medical examiner or grand jury that can make a determination that death has occurred. Again, PF is obviously denying that he has any special knowledge of KB’s whereabouts.

Q: How did all the blood get over the bathroom?
A: PF would not be expected to explain that, under any circumstances. He is a cowboy, not a scientist. As of the cause hearing, none of the samples had actually been tested. The use of Blue Star only indicates what samples should be tested, but does not give results. LE cited “years of investigative experience” as the reason to believe it was in fact blood. Some of the samples were large enough to receive a field test for DNA, and returned a high likelihood that a majority of the samples were KB’s DNA. It stands to reason that the primary user of the bathroom should leave the most DNA samples on towel racks, door handles, shower curtains, etc. Ultimately, the only opinion on that which matters is the jury’s.

We should hear better answers as the trial progresses. To earn a matched set of eight “Guilty” verdicts, prosecution has to prove KK’s story is predominantly true. Your six questions clearly show that to be a tremendous challenge. As usual, all of this is just my opinion JMO
Good thoughts.

What a case!
 
<modsnip: unnecessary, off topic>.

There are many questions we don’t have answers for but I do believe investigators should have done a better job rather than taking KKs word. Her statement alone should have given them some red flags. Why would she report a hitman to investigators when she wouldn’t even call LE to report her own solicitation? (Why didn’t her friend, MS, report it? Watch the CBS video. MS raises her voice and defends herself like she is some saint. Multiply that times a thousand for KK)

I believe, at this moment and not knocking other theories, that KK and PF were in this together. I do believe PF or KK , doesn’t matter who, thought of bringing in a hitman and maybe they did.

I don’t think KK planned to turn on PF. Nor do I think she left blood for LE to find because she is a good person or because she was afraid of PF. Nonsense. She went to Vegas to party after the murder! She is NOT a good person.

She was the first one to get caught. She lied. She told investigators she never heard of KB. She told them she knew nothing about the murder. They KNEW she lied and let her go. She then hired a well known Denver lawyer, or her Aunt did. She agreed to meet with investigators with her lawyer present. She had days to think up a story. As I said, she is psychotic. Throwing PF under the bus was a minor inconvenience if it meant she got a good deal. And had the situation been reversed, PF would have turned on her as well.

Again, many solid points, and passions definitely run high when discussing this case, myself included.

IMO, it comes down to this. "And had the situation been reversed, PF would have turned on her as well." Had the situation been reversed, PF could and would have turned on KK. He had every opportunity to do so, from the first time he spoke to investigators. If PF knew that KK was the killer, his lawyers most certainly would have advised him to give every bit of that story up, just as KK did.

But that's not what happened, because that's not how it happened. The facts and evidence were not there for PF to turn on KK.

It will be an interesting trial, to say the least.
 
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Again, many solid points, and passions definitely run high when discussing this case, myself included.

IMO, it comes down to this. "And had the situation been reversed, PF would have turned on her as well." Had the situation been reversed, PF could and would have turned on KK. He had every opportunity to do so, from the first time he spoke to investigators. If PF knew that KK was the killer, his lawyers most certainly would have advised him to give every bit of that story up, just as KK did.

But that's not what happened, because that's not how it happened. The facts and evidence were not there for PF to turn on KK.

It will be an interesting trial, to say the least.
PF remained quiet. Period. I always thought he knew there were others or another watching him. I believe they agreed neither would talk. I think he was blown away that she turned on him, but think about it. Turning on her would have made him admit his part. Keeping his mouth shut gives him a chance of a hung jury. Krystal knew she was caught. PF hadn’t yet been arrested. She only knew she had to turn this into a “he told me to do it and I was fearful”. “Let me get a lawyer and I will give you a good story.”

As others have said, that woman wasn’t fearful. She never called police from their first conversation. For anyone to give her any credit turns my stomach.

In no way am I saying PF is innocent.
 
"KK said there were bloody footprints all over the house including in KB’s bedroom. The footprints were big. Not likely they were KB’s. KK said it took about 3 to 4 hours to clean up the home."

1. I own a cleaning business. I've said it before, there is no way you can clean such a "horrific bloody mess" in 3-4 hours.

2. What do we know about any lumonol used? Even after bleach and peroxide lumonol will pick up a blood glow.
(Sorry can't sleep tonight so I keep posting. Lol!)
Yes, they used luminol and I believe they found even more blood evidence with Bluestar, which does not alter DNA. Imo
 
Yes, they used luminol and I believe they found even more blood evidence with Bluestar, which does not alter DNA. Imo
I went back thru pages and pages last night. I read about the star and lumomol. We know about the bathroom, but did they say if used elsewhere in the house? Can't remember if they said or not.
 
I used to clean houses too. I’m with you. No way she did it in 3 to 4 hours.
Well, this was a townhouse so if she worked fast I think it's possible to clean in that amount of time. It was probably only about eight or nine hundred square feet.
She probably just concentrated on getting all the blood and didn't have to do much in Kelseys bedroom. It's not like she dusted, polished, and vacuumed.

Imo
 
Yes, they used luminol and I believe they found even more blood evidence with Bluestar, which does not alter DNA. Imo

They used Blue Star in the bathroom, and Luminol in the living room / kitchen area. LE also did field test which indicated KB's DNA in the bathroom. We know that laboratory DNA tests were done on some samples, but the only result that we have are positive for KB's DNA in the blood sample swiped on the toilet face, and KB's DNA, and unknown male DNA, and another female DNA in the bathroom sink drain. The other female may or may not be KF. This is unclear IMO.
 
LE used Blue Star in the bathroom search on December 6th. Luminol was used on December 12th in the Living / kitchen areas, and field DNA indication tests were done in the bathroom and kitchen of December 12th. Further Luminol was used on ripped up floorboards, etc on December 14th. JMO
 
I went back thru pages and pages last night. I read about the star and lumomol. We know about the bathroom, but did they say if used elsewhere in the house? Can't remember if they said or not.
I don't think they specified where else they used it. But if they used in it the bathroom I don't see why they would not have used it elsewhere.
They removed many large items from the house. They found blood under the floorboards and in many other places they could not see with the naked eye.
They must have used something in order to see it. It doesn't make sense to me that they didn't use it, especially if it does not destroy DNA.

Imo
 
There was blood in the living room, too, right? As KK says she deliberately didn't clean all of it up around the fireplace.

So blood in the one bedroom, the bathroom and the living room?

Doesn't KK have an alibi as to the actual time of the murder?
 
LE used Blue Star in the bathroom search on December 6th. Luminol was used on December 12th in the Living / kitchen areas, and field DNA indication tests were done in the bathroom and kitchen of December 12th. Further Luminol was used on ripped up floorboards, etc on December 14th. JMO
Thanks! Of course I just finished my post and then read this.
 
I went back thru pages and pages last night. I read about the star and lumomol. We know about the bathroom, but did they say if used elsewhere in the house? Can't remember if they said or not.
And just because it doesn't say they did---that can mean little. There is much that hasn't been released to the public.
 
In addition, on December 21, KK pointed out some specific spots where she claimed to have deliberately left KB's blood for LE to find. My guess would be that these samples went straight to the lab for testing, but I don't know that for a fact. JMO
 
There was blood in the living room, too, right? As KK says she deliberately didn't clean all of it up around the fireplace.

So blood in the one bedroom, the bathroom and the living room?

Doesn't KK have an alibi as to the actual time of the murder?
And she talked of bloody footprints in the upstairs bedroom.
 
And just because it doesn't say they did---that can mean little. There is much that hasn't been released to the public.

Blue Star and Luminol are two different brand-name products that have the exact same purpose in a criminal investigation. There would be no reason to spray any area twice. JMO
 
I don't think they specified where else they used it. But if they used in it the bathroom I don't see why they would not have used it elsewhere.
They removed many large items from the house. They found blood under the floorboards and in many other places they could not see with the naked eye.
They must have used something in order to see it. It doesn't make sense to me that they didn't use it, especially if it does not destroy DNA.

Imo
Excellent point
 
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