CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #59

[MassGuy]

Hmmm... I'm questioning if the time PF phoned Sean to share pregnancy news was for first pregnancy because Sam seems to think that ma SF still did not know about KB being pregnant when this news shared with Sean.

Just seems far fetched to me SF would not know at 7 months (KB definitely showing then) unless KB had no contact with SF during her pregnancy. I could be wrong and this was when pregnant with baby K.

MOO

I made a big boo boo. I meant to say SF2!

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. I totally agree that there seems to be a lot of motives that may have all contributed.

Another possible one is remember when PF's sister tried to get KB to get dirt on PF for something about the litigation of the estate. Well what if PF and Ma thinks KB is helping that sister, even if KB was definitely not helping the sister, it could be that PF and Ma mistakingly thought she was.

Could just be another possible thing in the long list of possible motives.

What puzzles me is that, according to CB, PF's mother/sister so disliked KB she couldn't be in the same room at SF's house yet the sister expected KB to help her get dirt on PF concerning something about the estate of their dad.

It doesn't make a whit of sense. In the flurry of the prosecution witnesses the last several days, SF hasn't been called yet she was first to be called at prelim.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

What puzzles me is that, according to CB, PF's mother/sister so disliked KB she couldn't be in the same room at SF's house yet the sister expected KB to help her get dirt on PF concerning something about the estate of their dad.

It doesn't make a whit of sense. In the flurry of the prosecution witnesses the last several days, SF hasn't been called yet she was first to be called at prelim.

JMO

She may have disliked Kelsey because she refused to help her lawyer.

SF will likely be called when it’s her place in the timeline. That would be around the time of the fire, which would probably be after KK testifies.

 

[zea mays]

I cannot wait for the doc dump once the trial is over. I know reporters are trying as best as they can but I feel like we’re still missing so much.

Thank goodness for the state of CO and their open records laws. We'll hopefully get Watts level record dumps.

So many sharp, observant people....LE Evidence Man, woman at the bank and the Verizon guy.

Seems like Patrick's creepy countenance did him in with the last two.

"Excuse me, genius, while I google you."

I love that mental picture.

It is driving me NUTS that we cannot read or hear actual testimony! This is like the dark ages! What harm can it do for the public to hear testimony or read it?? Good grief!

It is totally obnoxious.

That makes all the difference.
KK being a nurse she may have also brought something that "cleans" blood.

We haven't heard all the evidence--so it wouldn't surprise me.

It's pretty unlikely IMO that KK would have access to much beyond what the public would have access to. She'd likely have access to gowns/gloves/etc but probably not much by way of janitorial supplies.

Seriously, five bank DEPOSITS on 22nd? Did he steal cash from her? Is that what the the other charge (killed in the course of a felony?) is about?

And 1 December household waste dump. Was that the one we watched unfold?

I'm really curious about the deposits, too.

Why is lil K in the front seat??? Little babies do not go in the front seat.

They do in trucks with no back seats or back seats that are not appropriate for car seats. Most trucks have the ability to turn off the airbag for just this reason.

If anyone would know how to completely clean up blood and tissue it would be a critical care nurse.

Eh. IMO, a lot has been made of KK being a nurse and some special knowledge nurses have about cleaning up blood. I'm an RN - there really isn't any magical way to clean up blood that a hospital has that the general public wouldn't be able to find somewhere. Maybe she wouldn't be as grossed out and she likely would have had access to gowns/gloves/etc but not really any solvents, etc, that would be more effective than bleach, peroxide, hot water, etc. MOO, of course.

 

[Seattle1]

Yes, and part of the agreed upon child support would be his share of that medical insurance, I'd bet.

Do you remember if the Doss employee was asked about this, though? AFAIK, it came from PF so I'm just wondering how accurate it is. MOO

This was discussed in tonights FB live (Sam) but I don't think Doss personnel testified today.

Not sure where this info came up in court testimony or by which witness.

It does make sense though that Doss probably did not provide paid insurance for dependents, and with no salary being earned by missing KB, there's no payroll deduction for baby K's premiums.

 

[Gardener1850]

Something still seems off about pf murdering kb just because of finances though. It's a component probably but not all.
If I understand right, kb's parents were offering to help them get a ranch. I imagine that means a down payment and co-signing. But the offer was refused.
Soooo....did he want kk back and thus wanted kb out of the picture.
Staying tuned for more details.
So sad kb got mixed up with crazee frazee. As someone above said, it reminds you a bit of the Watts guy who got rid of his family, to be free for his mistress.
After the details today, I'm starting to wonder...

I doubt that PF could qualify for a loan for a ranch property even with KB's parents as co-signers and paying a down payment. He was already in default on a $70,000+ loan. No bank is going to give him more money to throw away with that credit history. We all wondered from the beginning why only KB's name was on the Condo and not PF...Well now we know. He could not have helped purchase that Condo even if he had wanted to make the relationship work. And KB's family was smart to put it in a trust to protect it. Meanwhile, PF stopped paying child support just 2 months after KB purchased the condo with her parent's help. I bet he was seething with anger that KB bought a home without him.
MOO.

 

[katydid23]

She may have disliked Kelsey because she refused to help her lawyer.

SF will likely be called when it’s her place in the timeline. That would be around the time of the fire, which would probably be after KK testifies.

I think you are right about that. They seem to be going chronologically to try and keep things straight. And they don't need SF for Thanksgiving info anymore. Just the alleged bonfire incident.

 

[PommyMommy]

This was discussed in tonights FB live (Sam) but I don't think Doss personnel testified today.

Not sure where this info came up in court testimony or by which witness.

It does make sense though that Doss probably did not provide paid insurance for dependents, and with no salary being earned by missing KB, there's no payroll deduction for baby K's premiums.

If I'm not mistaken, it came from the preliminary hearing. I'll go dig, lol.

 

[MemPat]

Eh. IMO, a lot has been made of KK being a nurse and some special knowledge nurses have about cleaning up blood. I'm an RN - there really isn't any magical way to clean up blood that a hospital has that the general public wouldn't be able to find somewhere. Maybe she wouldn't be as grossed out and she likely would have had access to gowns/gloves/etc but not really any solvents, etc, that would be more effective than bleach, peroxide, hot water, etc. MOO, of course.[/QUOTE]

I'm so surprised to hear this.

Not only our nurses but those of us who were not medical personnel had to take tests every year on how to perfectly clean up bodily fluids.

We had to know names of the chemicals/disinfectants and how long to apply each one for maximum effectiveness.

There was a cabinet holding all the chemicals on the list along with disposable cleaning materials and biohazard bags.

We even had plastic cones that had to stay around the area for a predetermined length of time.

 

[MyBelle]

Or, did he take out a loan and mummy co-signed for it? He would need co-sign since he owned no property of his own.

PF is an adult. He doesn't need a co-signer on a loan if he has an income and we know he sold cattle-herding dogs and worked as a farrier.

JMO

 

[iambarb2]

suziQ, how did KB's mother get the baby away from Frazee, after the murder?

There was a court proceeding where SF and EF petitioned the court for temporary custody of Kaylee. Mom & Dad Berreth countered for temporary custody and were granted temporary custody. They have maintained custody and in about month there is another hearing about custody.

 

[katydid23]

PF is an adult. He doesn't need a co-signer on a loan if he has an income and we know he sold cattle-herding dogs and worked as a farrier.

JMO

It doesn't matter if he is an adult or not. He would still need a co-signer if he didn't have a high enough credit score and consistent income. Selling cattle dogs and being self employed as a farrier wouldn't be enough to get a mortgage okayed. You need solid, provable income.

 

[Seattle1]

The neighbor didn’t “save” anything. Those images were recovered from one of her devices after they had been deleted by the system.

If the times of those images are off, they are only off by an hour (of each other). It’s clear that PF was there when he shouldn’t have been, in direct conflict with both his “alibi notes” and what he told law enforcement.

His vehicle is also captured by surveillance from a furniture store, as he made his way to the Franch.

This fits perfectly with the timing of the last photo taken of him at Kelsey’s. The fact that it was his vehicle, and he was driving, is not in dispute.

I'm breathing a sigh of relief because Sam confirmed that investigator doing the analysis of neighbor's surveillance camera explained to jury that he did several "self-tests" of the camera system with himself as the subject.

His experiment proved camera was very hit and miss, but also testified that camera seemed to best capture only KB's front door.

Sam thought this testimony will help explain why KK was not seen on neighbor's surveillance camera.

I really wanted the jurors to grasp this-- whew!

 

[MemPat]

I doubt that PF could qualify for a loan for a ranch property even with KB's parents as co-signers and paying a down payment. He was already in default on a $70,000+ loan. No bank is going to give him more money to throw away with that credit history. We all wondered from the beginning why only KB's name was on the Condo and not PF...Well now we know. He could not have helped purchase that Condo even if he had wanted to make the relationship work. And KB's family was smart to put it in a trust to protect it. Meanwhile, PF stopped paying child support just 2 months after KB purchased the condo with her parent's help. I bet he was seething with anger that KB bought a home without him.
MOO.

I agree that Patrick was furious to see his plan of becoming financially independent of mama thwarted when he was left off the deed for Kelsey's condo.

His siblings had most likely ribbed him about using their mom and he may have tried to mooch off them in the past.

There may end up being a long list of circumstances that led to the Thanksgiving rage of Patrick Frazee.

 

[MyBelle]

I doubt that PF could qualify for a loan for a ranch property even with KB's parents as co-signers and paying a down payment. He was already in default on a $70,000+ loan. No bank is going to give him more money to throw away with that credit history. We all wondered from the beginning why only KB's name was on the Condo and not PF...Well now we know. He could not have helped purchase that Condo even if he had wanted to make the relationship work. And KB's family was smart to put it in a trust to protect it. Meanwhile, PF stopped paying child support just 2 months after KB purchased the condo with her parent's help. I bet he was seething with anger that KB bought a home without him.
MOO.

Is the condo in a trust or an LLC? I don't know about anybody else but I'm not about to buy property to provide rent-free to someone my adult child is dating. Do we know details about the $70,000+ loan such as terms and what kind of loan it was? I sure don't consider the stoppage of voluntary child support to be a motive for murder. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that PF wasn't a good dad.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Is the condo in a trust or an LLC? I don't know about anybody else but I'm not about to buy property to provide rent-free to someone my adult child is dating. Do we know details about the $70,000+ loan such as terms and what kind of loan it was? I sure don't consider the stoppage of voluntary child support to be a motive for murder. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that PF wasn't a good dad.

JMO

I have. I think killing the mother of your child qualifies.

 

[Steelslady]

I wouldn't think on RF's estate, rather on mummy's franch. If SF co-signed she becomes responsible for the loan. If PF defaulted she's left "holding the bag" so-to-speak.

eta: On second thought maybe they can go after SF's franch:
Sean Frazee also acknowledged ongoing dispute among him, his sister Erin Frazee and #PatrickFrazee over late father’s estate worth $400k, including Mom’s house. In successfully warding off objection by defense, DA Dan May says “financial pressures” are part of case #KelseyBerreth

Lance Benzel on Twitter

I thought it said "including Mom's house." Which is why I was under the impression that maybe she was allowed to live there until either her death or her children were all out of the house.

 

[Seattle1]

There was a court proceeding where SF and EF petitioned the court for temporary custody of Kaylee. Mom & Dad Berreth countered for temporary custody and were granted temporary custody. They have maintained custody and in about month there is another hearing about custody.

Sam's live FB video tonight alluded to the custody hearings will continue until a verdict delivered on PF.

Obviously, if PF acquitted, he will want baby K back unless the Court prevents it. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

Something still seems off about pf murdering kb just because of finances though. It's a component probably but not all.
If I understand right, kb's parents were offering to help them get a ranch. I imagine that means a down payment and co-signing. But the offer was refused.
Soooo....did he want kk back and thus wanted kb out of the picture.
Staying tuned for more details.
So sad kb got mixed up with crazee frazee. As someone above said, it reminds you a bit of the Watts guy who got rid of his family, to be free for his mistress.
After the details today, I'm starting to wonder...

I thought the testimony by CB is that she offered to help KB purchase a ranch. If she wasn't married to PF, there would be no need to include him. If KB wanted, she could add PF to the deed later.

And, it is a fact that KB's parents DID buy the condo for her and PF's name is nowhere on it.

JMO

 

[iambarb2]

Can a felon become a nurse?
The answer is yes....Short Answer: Some felons have become nurses while others have been turned down. As with many instances involving felons, the answer can be complicated…but “in general,” It’s somewhat possible for felon can become a nurse five years after the completion of their sentence (which includes parole, if that was part of the sentence).


I wondered if KK could be a nurse again.....the above link is pretty good explanation of the answer.

below is a Colorado answer but it’s an older answer, not a current one

https://www.backgroundchecks.com/co...ng-for-Stronger-Background-Checks-in-Colorado

Since the Colorado Board of Nursing does not require license applicants to gothrough background checks, someone convicted of abusing a disabled person could feasibly get licensed in the state.Nov 7,2016

I cannot find a more recent ruling.....although I read that Colorado was looking into the current law.