CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Layla123]

Moms have killed their children before. We have seen it. Where that possibility completely falls apart, to me, is in CW's actions after the fact. If it truly was SW (and I don't for one second believe it was), his actions afterwards defy belief. Gitana has a fantastic post at the beginning of the thread outlining the details, so I'm not going to rehash them here.

No loving father, upon seeing his babies killed, loads them into his truck, goes for a drive and dumps them in a tank of crude oil... And then turns around the next day and gives interviews without even shedding a tear. Even if you thought you were protecting your wife, for some reason, by hiding the bodies where's the devastation that you'll never again hear the laughter of your kids??

I don’t think he was protecting his wife. He hated her. He was protecting himself. He killed her. Even if everyone believed that she killed the children, he’d still be held accountable for her murder, he’d have to pay the consequences, and he didn’t want to.

 

[Sark06]

I think this would have been in the heat of the moment, I don't think unless he has an undiagnosed mental health issue that you would plan this kind of crime and if you did you'd do a better job than this. There is such a short time from SW coming home to CW leaving for work it must have all happened really fast. I can't for any reason see how he could've hurt those babies and not completely fallen apart in grief, to go to work and act like 'It' hasn't happened is astonishing!

 

[Seattle1]

@Misy said: ↑
Wouldn't that talk with his father have been taped/recorded?

His father is not any of those things.

From following many trials here and seeing such, of course it would be. Unless his father is a lawyer or a minister or somebody protected by law. Imho
@Gitana?

CW was being detained for questioning in the murder of his family, and granted permission by LE to speak to his Dad. I don't know why he wouldn't be taped. ( I also recall the nephew Brendan from SA documentary being taped while talking to his Mum at police station).

 

[PommyMommy]

BBM. Your link does NOT say the Judge cited concerns about "the credibility of the forensic expert."

It says:
A Weld County District judge denied the requests.

I didn't claim it said that or anything else. I simply provided the link for a poster who didn't know how to bring it here from the media thread.

Late Edit: Here is the second paragraph of the article:

But a Weld County District judge dismissed the motion, citing concerns about the credibility of the forensic expert consulted by the attorney, the Denver Post reported.

 

[Inthedetails]

Someday I hope we find out if he was the Golden boy and lied often. Do we know if he is the baby of the family. Can't help but think of Peterson and hacking.......pregnant wife living double lives etc.

I don't see him as a golden boy.

I see him as an average boy but who had potential, as his mechanics teacher saw in him, but he never was able to reach his potential. Perhaps it would've hit his potential later in life....we'll never know.

He married a girl who had trouble in school with academics and whose early marriage ended early....but she had potential and was living up to it. How exciting it must have been for her to feel the admiration and success that was coming her way (even if it wasn't quite a firm as she thought....I'm thinking of the financial difficulties they had).

So, I don't see a golden boy who could do no wrong, but a guy who didn't do much of anything. He didn't bloom, while his wife was in the process of blooming.

jmo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Would rigor set in? And she was in an odd position making it harder to slide into oil?

It will be interesting in the autopsy reports as to where it the lividity was on each of them.

 

[Seattle1]

More on hair banding-

"Although it has been generally accepted within the forensic hair community that decompositional changes in the form of an identifiable banding pattern can occur in the root area of hairs after death, little detailed information with regard to this phenomenon is known (e.g., rates at which this occurs and conditions that cause this banding). Hairs were collected daily from bodies placed in water, an air‐conditioned environment, an enclosed vehicle, on the surface of the ground, and buried at the University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Center. The hairs were examined microscopically and the level of change documented for each environment. The onset of the banding was observed to have been delayed in water, air‐conditioning, and cold weather and was hastened by warm weather and within the vehicle. This study provides validation that decomposition does produce varying effects on hair at the proximal portion of a hair root, including a dark band."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1556-4029.2012.02271.x

So, yes, rate of decomp can be shown with hair banding. I'm not sure how far it's come since this study. However, safe to say it's more advanced now since it was used in the CA case since years have passed.

I also recall reading recently that in cases where bodies are exhumed, the majority of testing is done on hair. The first case of the determination of poison in human hair was published in the 1850s and reported the presence of arsenic in the hair of a body exhumed after 11 years! MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I think this would have been in the heat of the moment, I don't think unless he has an undiagnosed mental health issue that you would plan this kind of crime and if you did you'd do a better job than this. There is such a short time from SW coming home to CW leaving for work it must have all happened really fast. I can't for any reason see how he could've hurt those babies and not completely fallen apart in grief, to go to work and act like 'It' hasn't happened is astonishing!

I agree. Although he may have thought about this at a previous time, I think they argued, he strangled her, then felt compelled to kill his children. His coverup seemed to be ill planned, and spur of the moment. The fact that he was able to show no emotion and go to work, tells me that he has a stunning lack of empathy.

 

[Shekkiec]

@isalybra thank you so much for your time and input . I’m still catching up on the thread however your knowledge is so valuable . It’s easy for us to think we have an idea of SW and C.W. based on SM . You have unedited knowledge with insight and it adds such value

 

[Ronso]

Someday I hope we find out if he was the Golden boy and lied often. Do we know if he is the baby of the family. Can't help but think of Peterson and hacking.......pregnant wife living double lives etc.

He has one older sibling - a sister.

 

[Seattle1]

I wish we knew more about CW's profile, and curious to know if the rage, if any, was at his own Mum.

 

[mickey2942]

His smiling face, during his interview, there was such a complete disconnect. Dude, your wife and children are missing...show some emotion! Aside from elation. Sick psychopath. And dumb too.

Really, just dump them at a job site! Doh! Homer Simpson could've made a better plan! Then, the stunning "brillance" of blaming the Mother! So, of course, your gut reaction is to kill her, and dispose of the bodies on the way to work!

 

[Layla123]

Really?? I don't see that as a possibility at all.

Maybe you are being funny. IDK

jmo

“She tripped on the Barbie Doll and fell down the stairs,” according to C.W.’s statement.

 

[MassGuy]

His smiling face, during his interview, there was such a complete disconnect. Dude, your wife and children are missing...show some emotion! Aside from elation. Sick psychopath. And dumb too.

Really, just dump them at a job site! Doh! Homer Simpson could've made a better plan! Then, the stunning "brillance" of blaming the Mother! So, of course, your gut reaction is to kill her, and dispose of the bodies on the way to work!

Exactly. This was amateur hour.

 

[Rayleengale]

I suppose the difference would be how one would want to engage in the discussions. "As an expert" that is fact based, and I believe this would take more effort, or one posting their "educated opinion," of which they can give as much detail as they want...keeping it more casual. Make sense? That's it! One is more formal, still in their suit at the water cooler. The other has already shed the tie and is drinking at the bar :-S I think verified has more weight as far as how others respond to the posts. But unverified individuals have weight too, depending on how much they want to bring to the discussion. I'm thinking way too hard about this and I'm probably way wrong! But that's how I see it. Cheers! ;D

I agree with this post. I’m a retired family therapist but although I have over 20 years of experience and much education....I don’t consider myself an expert because after a few years of “gardening” my DSM knowledge is quite rusty! Lol but hopefully can still add my unique contribution ! Thank you to all the wonderful Sluethers !

 

[borndem]

That's what I'm thinking. The defense has two options. One is to pose an affirmative defense, that is an alternative to what happened. The other is to just poke holes in the state's case. Which I don't think they can do. They're going to run with an affirmative defense, or at least preparing to do such.

Affirmative defense -- Yep, that's about all they've got to beat this, IMO, but we don't have/know all the facts yet. Neither does anyone else, IMO.

I thought I would look it up to see what angle the defense might take with this not-a-Mensa-member man. We've seen it tried before, but here is some info about that type defense -- note that it is from the office of a criminal defense attorney:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]
How Defendants Prove Affirmative Defenses

An affirmative defense of self-defense, or any other affirmative defense, doesn’t just present itself. While a criminal defendant may decide to offer no evidence during trial, hoping the prosecution will fail to meet its burden, this approach won’t work if the defendant has an affirmative defense. The defendant must offer proof at trial supporting the affirmative defense, meeting the standard of proof set by state law (usually a preponderance of the evidence, which is a lesser standard than the prosecution’s). If the jury concludes that, for example, a preponderance of the evidence supports the defendant’s claim of self-defense, it must acquit.
[...]
bbm
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Affirmative Defenses in Criminal Cases
---------------------------------------------
Interesting if they go that way...
To Mr. Watts: "... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' "

 

[mtnlites]

Just to clarify, this FHA thing has come up so many times! You don't need to be a first time home buyer. A 2 second Google search gives the following info:

Candidates for FHA Loans
Borrowers will a low credit rating
Anyone that cannot afford a large downpayment
If you are receiving your downpayment as a gift
If your debt-to-income ratio is high
First-time homebuyers

It's true. We have purchased two homes through FHA and one through our state's rural initiative program.

 

[Sark06]

I wish we knew more about CW's profile, and curious to know if the rage, if any, was at his own Mum.

Or Dad? It was his dad he asked to speak to before confessing. Could be rage at himself over his sexuality

 

[MassGuy]

Affirmative defense -- Yep, that's about all they've got to beat this, IMO, but we don't have/know all the facts yet. Neither does anyone else, IMO.

I thought I would look it up to see what angle the defense might take with this not-a-Mensa-member man. We've seen it tried before, but here is some info about that type defense -- note that it is from the office of a criminal defense attorney:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]
How Defendants Prove Affirmative Defenses

An affirmative defense of self-defense, or any other affirmative defense, doesn’t just present itself. While a criminal defendant may decide to offer no evidence during trial, hoping the prosecution will fail to meet its burden, this approach won’t work if the defendant has an affirmative defense. The defendant must offer proof at trial supporting the affirmative defense, meeting the standard of proof set by state law (usually a preponderance of the evidence, which is a lesser standard than the prosecution’s). If the jury concludes that, for example, a preponderance of the evidence supports the defendant’s claim of self-defense, it must acquit.
[...]
bbm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Affirmative Defenses in Criminal Cases
---------------------------------------------
Interesting if they go that way...
To Mr. Watts: "... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' "

Spoiler alert: The affirmative defense of his wife killing the kids, won’t fool a single member of the jury. Go for it Mr. Watts!

 

[Layla123]

Here’s why we’ve heard nothing from the Defense.
“It is the policy and practice of the Office of the State Public Defender that attorneys and other professionals appointed to represent an individual charged with a criminal offense do not comment, publicly or off the record, on the pending criminal case. By statute, the Office is required to comply with the Colorado Rules of Professional Conduct and the American Bar Association standards relating to the administration of criminal justice.”

Media requests regarding Christopher Watts | Office of the Colorado State Public Defender