Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[MassGuy]

I mean how many years did it take for Drew Petersen to be charged with drowning his wife...

True. It’s such a shame that he won’t tell LE where he put Stacy.

 

[katydid23]

Hmm. That's a good point. If it was an out of the blue thing that happened as a result of a rage-filled argument, she would be awake, aware and likely facing him. She would likely have time to try to defend herself. To either claw at him as he grabbed at her or even to turn as she heard him rush up behind in rage.

It does seem like the lack of injuries on him indicate she was incapacitated quickly which could mean she had no advanced warning.

I agree. If he was enraged and coming after her, she would have known and there would be some scratches/marks/injuries, because she would be fighting for her life.

I don't think he gave her a chance. I think he blindsided her totally.

 

[molly1255]

I’m finding a lot of articles that say fake nails can cause some damage.
“4. Leave scratch marks of passion all over some dude.”
16 Things You Just Can’t Do With Fake Nails (And 16 Things You Can)

A few years ago I had acrylic without tips. I got a bad case of hives on the top of my right hand. I did aggressively scratch it and at first the area was just red. A day later, the skin on the top of my right hand was very badly broken and it looked like a horrific wound, but it didn't really hurt. I still have a scar.

JMO, If SW had tips under the acrylic, the tips can and do pop off. They could pop off in a number of ways but whenever I experienced this when I had tips, it was because I'd jammed the tip of my finger or fingers into something. It didn't take much, really. IMO, if SW had tips and they popped off, I'm not sure she would be able to leave scratch marks.

 

[Seattle1]

I think you are right. It is important to note that not ALL tanks at a site are for storing crude. Much depends upon the characteristics of the well which can vary even within a few miles. Some will have a tank for the saltwater, some will have a tank for the condensate (the mineral spirits, alcohol, lighter distillates). The ones for water may not have an opening at the top other than maybe a pipe to attach a hose to drain the water. The reason for larger openings on the top of crude tanks and also an opening on the lower side is so that an adult can go into the tank because the crude tanks are very difficult to clean due to the thick, stickiness of the crude. Also, the ladder going down into the tank looked too clean for it to be crude. I was also confused as to why there were be a ladder going into the tank if the opening was to small for someone to enter. Maybe the crude is thinner than the crude in Texas and northern Louisiana. Just wondering. I think that he did not put her in because of the difficulty of climbing that ladder with her body.

I don't think it will be too long before better photos of CERVI 318 surface. I believe it's fair to note OSHA specs most manways today at 24 or 36 inch diameter. I agree that it doesn't follow that there would be a ladder for smaller gaskets.

 

[katydid23]

It hurts my heart so much that he put that ugly lie out there, about the woman he brutally killed. I really want the world to know he lied because it is so hurtful to have that stupid lie out there about her. She would never harm a hair on those babies heads.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

This thread is shutting down until 7:30 am Mountain time or sooner tomorrow.

Take care,
Tricia

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning! The thread is open for posting.

link for graphic

 

[JudgeJudi]

Good morning everyone.

This will just melt your heart.

In Loving Memory of Bella and Celeste Watts

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

It doesn't look like they altered the back yard fence as shown in this picture. The rear facing fence still has wide slats and I don't see a gate. The side yard abutts onto the neighbors and I don't see a gate there either. Really, with two little girls playing in the backyard most parents would not have a gate in the fence line for their protection and with neighbors beside and in the rear it wouldn't make sense and there is normally no right a way involved legally.

Playing devil’s advocate here...

Do all homes in this subdivision have fenced yards? Is it “included”when you buy a home?

So, if there’s no gate, how did the get they get materials in the backyard for the play set? I worked for a large national home builder for many years and personal property, like a playset, could not be installed prior to closing.

If there’s no gate, how did CW get that lawn mower in and out of backyard?
Probably not carrying it up and down the stairs shown to his left and into kitchen thru sliding door? Probably not through the basement and up through the house to garage?

Just wondering...
JMO

 

[kizzykat]

This photo was posted on SW facebook page Aug 9th, 2018. SW posted that the girls had done this to the doll and she didn't know what to think about it but posted that comment as though it were funny that the girls would do this. Some on WS have suspected that CW actually did that to the life size doll and not the girls. Apparently SW said it was a plastic mat from a twister game that was used to cover the doll up with.

This bugs me. It's probably already been said, but those fold looks too precise for a 3 and 4 year old. It appears the doll was placed on top of (and centered) on the twister mat, then one side folded, then the other side folded over the first fold. Like a taco fold. It's also a really large doll for two small kids to be handling, placing and folding it up so neatly. I'm more inclined to think most kids that age would lay the doll down, plop the mat on top the doll and tuck it around and under the outer edges of the doll (bunched). I could be wrong. Just my humble .02.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Playing devil’s advocate here...

Do all homes in this subdivision have fenced yards? Is it “included”when you buy a home?

So, if there’s no gate, how did the get they get materials in the backyard for the play set? I worked for a large national home builder for many years and personal property, like a playset, could not be installed prior to closing.

If there’s no gate, how did CW get that lawn mower in and out of backyard?
Probably not carrying it up and down the stairs shown to his left and into kitchen thru sliding door? Probably not through the basement and up through the house to garage?

Just wondering...
JMO

The homes in the city where I live, the fence usually is at the property line. That means that at the sides of their house it goes out from their house a few feet. The gate to the backyard is usually on the side fence and and that usually is anywhere from 5 to 10 ft away from the house. It then does a 90 degree angle at the "middle" of the side of the house and that part with gate parallels the street. Therefore to come out of the backyard which is fenced, and the side yard which is fenced, and then you have to come out through the side yard and then to the front yard through the gate which is part of the side yard not the backyard.

That said, legally, if they have a basement I would expect they would be required due to codes to have an emergency entrance out of another door at the basement level. I can't fathom a city code would allow a basement without an egress to the exterior of the house.

ETA: I'm second-guessing what I just said, as I know people that have basements and they do not have an exterior door. But I think the city codes are changing that these days? Perhaps somebody else can chime in

 

[JudgeJudi]

True, and why would CW need to load tools when they should already be on his truck inside the large toolbox located in the cab of the truck.
I don't imagine CW was doing any renovations or work at his home during that time so there should be no need to unload the tools after work and then have to reload them.

Yes, but did his normal tools include a shovel and perhaps a pick.

 

[Mrspratcher]

Can you use your phone on the plane? No, you cannot.

You can send an iMessage via WiFi.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I was struck by two things: the closeness of the houses and the area behind their backyard. I'd heard about them, but SEEING the pic had more impact. However he did it, he must have kept the noise down somehow.

This is why I believe he either caught Shanann by surprise soon after she returned home or waited until she was asleep. If she managed to scream even once, there was always the possibility of waking a neighbour at a time when everyone in the street would be asleep and noise would carry in the still night air.

I believe the children were killed first. If they were alive when he strangled Shanann, there was the added risk that they might wake up and run into the bedroom to see what was happening. This would not only cause a major distraction if he was still in the midst of strangling her but they would probably scream.

 

[Bill Carson]

The homes in the city where I live, the fence usually is at the property line. That means that at the sides of their house it goes out from their house a few feet. The gate to the backyard is usually on the side fence and and that usually is anywhere from 5 to 10 ft away from the house. It then does a 90 degree angle at the "middle" of the side of the house and that part with gate parallels the street. Therefore to come out of the backyard which is fenced, and the side yard which is fenced, and then you have to come out through the side yard and then to the front yard through the gate which is part of the side yard not the backyard.

That said, legally, if they have a basement I would expect they would be required due to codes to have an emergency entrance out of another door at the basement level. I can't fathom a city code would allow a basement without an egress to the exterior of the house.

ETA: I'm second-guessing what I just said, as I know people that have basements and they do not have an exterior door. But I think the city codes are changing that these days? Perhaps somebody else can chime in

You are correct about there being side gates in the fence from the backyard to the front of the house, usually on the same side of the house as the garage. There is typically not a gate going from the backyard to the area behind the house (not many alleys in Colorado), unless the house backs up to a designated open space, which this house does not.

Also, regarding basement exits, in Colorado, basements with bedrooms are required to have window wells with at least one "window exit."

EGRESS WINDOW REQUIREMENTS

(BTW, I think the Watts' basement was unfinished. It is probably where they stored all of the stuff that clutters up most houses---Christmas decorations, etc.)

Edited for clarification

 

[Mo Thuairim]

CW's odd use of language in his media interviews has been noted by pretty much everyone (much of it, I imagine, can be accounted for by stress, discomfort talking on camera and consciousness of guilt) but I'm particularly interested in his use/lack of use of personal pronouns when talking about his wife and daughters. This strikes me as extremely unusual and fundamentally dehumanising.

Even though he has a few opportunities to get this right over three separate news interviews (he's noticeably better in the shorter KDVR one), he still seems to slip up and has to repeatedly correct himself from using impersonal pronouns to choosing the appropriate personal pronouns. He constantly switches back and forth between the two pronoun types when he's describing coming back into the empty house.

Does this fit with the theory of him seeing his family as 'things' or possessions, or distancing himself psychologically from them as human beings? I mean, many people find it jarring when an animal is referred to as 'it' if the sex is known (even though that's very common) but referring to people — your own family — as it/nothing/that? Clearly, these are errors, and he wouldn't normally have used such strange pronoun choices when they were alive, but seems like it might be an example of his true feelings leaking out under pressure.

9News interview:
"And it's just like... there's... it's just like... it has vanished. Like, she's not... like, when I got home yesterday, it was like a ghost town. Like, she wasn't here. The kids weren't here. I have no idea, like, where they went."
[Talks about it being earth-shattering, trying to contact Shanann and then conversation with Nickole before returning to house.]
"Got here, got inside and nuh— [appears to correct himself; about to say 'nothing'?] nobody was here, nuh— nothing."

Denver 7 interview:
"And then walked in the house and nothing. It's vanished. Nothing was here [corrects himself], I mean she wasn't... she wasn't here. The kids weren't here. Nobody was here."
[Talks some more about his family/last night.]
"My kids are my life. I mean those... those smiles [not they or even those children] light up my life. And it's just like, I mean, last night like, during... when they usually eat dinner, it was just like, I miss them, like I mean, I miss telling... 'Hey, you gotta eat that or you're not going to get your dessert.' You know, it's just like, 'You're not going to get your snack after.' I miss that [corrects himself] like... I miss them. You know, cuddled up on their couches — they have like a Minnie Mouse and a Sofia couch that they cuddle up on and watch, you know, Bubble Guppies or something. And it's just like [incoherent] it was tearing me apart last night. And I needed that. I needed that last night."

KDVR interview:
"I came home and it was like I walked into a ghost town. Like, everything [corrects himself]... she wasn't here. The kids weren't here. It was just like... they were here and then they were gone."

 

[JudgeJudi]

Iirc, the neighbor usually left early to go out for a run and saw his car backed in. He may have seen the neighbor running.

The neighbour left every morning at 5:15 to go to the gym. It wasn’t stated whether she drove or ran there.

 

[Bill Carson]

The neighbour left every morning at 5:15 to go to the gym. It wasn’t stated whether she drove or ran there.

BBM. Another reason to hate those people.

(J/K)

 

[mtnlites]

BBM. Another reason to hate those people.

(J/K)

That is just a whole other world to me...

 

[ZsaZsa]

I don't think there was any legitimate belief- either on part of CW or SW- that SW would be fine on her own financially. IMO, her business with LeVel was not as lucrative as some may think (and as it was portrayed on SM). I think they were in serious financial trouble and I think the work with Thrive was at best not helping, at worst possibly contributing in part to the problem.

Not sure that it's even that relevant. Just saying I don't think there was a confident plan from SW for a separation. I still think she would have tried to make things work until the very last possible straw. Maybe that straw had been drawn that night...maybe. But I'm not at all convinced it was a "we're done here" moment.

It's all extra hard to grasp for me because this is the first time I look at a family murder case where there is SO MUCH completely 180 degrees social media indication that they were living a downright blissful life. Other men who've committed similar atrocities can have seemed perfectly normal, etc. But this is different to me. CW and SW very very publicly displayed literally the polar opposite.

All MOO.

I view a lot of her posts as being infomercials, particularly if it mentions how well she/they feel.