Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[molly1255]

Yes - i have personal experience with this.

That's the trouble on using past history to judge these cases.

I've had personal experience with this, too. It is a problem because sometimes that past history is very well hidden.

In my experience, there was a past history of lies, serial cheating, clever manipulations, conning and victimizing others. A past history of living as someone who had no conscience, no empathy and no moral code for their entire adult life and also a history that included being totally indifferent toward his children from a first marriage, though he was able to put on quite an act about how much he loved them.

There was no criminal history, and he didn't have as much as a speeding ticket on his record. He had a near perfect credit score. Though it turns out that was the case because someone else was paying the bills and paying them on time for years. There was also a past history of being fired from jobs, for bad behavior, but he was always able to quickly find another job and lie about what happened. His image was extremely important to him.

It was all extremely well hidden and his parents and siblings helped him hide it all, though they had decades of suffering backlashes due to his behavior.

 

[Nikynoo]

Then CW really should plea bargain to all of the murders and get the punishment more to his liking. There are said to be dozens, hundreds, of videos with cute, vibrant children interacting with their Mom, little kids maybe just a tad too large to easily stuff into a 24" circumference hole in an oil tank without manual compression or breaking of bones.
I don't think the jury will care that the mother lied, if you are correct about your story, about nuts.

@NuttMegg , respectfully, it is not MY story about nuts, as you are well aware.

I am pointing out, that in my opinion, it is possible that WITNESSES to this event, may be called to cast a shadow upon SW's character.

 

[NuttMegg]

This is quite an interesting question.

One thing I know from a survey of QCs on rape trials in the UK is that a common tactic is to try to get a juror or two to judge the victim.

If you can convince a juror that the victim shares some responsibility, they may acquit even if they think the accused is likely guilty.

I am not sure if this kind of reasoning applies in domestic murders, but it is hard to see what other strategy the defence has available than to paint her as a bad person who might have flipped out.

I really do understand that during a rape trial, a victim who dressed a certain way, came to a man's bedroom, was witnessed to be giving a come on, etc, can insert doubt in the jury's collective mind. I'm old, and really do understand that, and if I were on the jury I would listen carefully to what went on before the rape, if it was a rape.
However in a domestic murder (mass murder) case, I see that the defense's only option is to dirty the murdered woman, however......"nuts"? She, as atested to by internet posters, lied about where the nuts were? When her kid had a severe allergy to nuts?
Anyway there are whole web sites devoted specifically to dirtying the murdered woman, we have outbreaks of the same here, although they are rebranded as possibilities by open minded individuals.
Still, dozens of videos of 2-3 year olds acting cute and precious...juxtaposed with a defense appearing mean-spirited by actually calling witnesses to say the murdered woman misled internet posters on SM over the placement of nuts on a kitchen island? I wish I could be on THAT jury.

 

[Nikynoo]

I mean, was it just an (allegedly) untrue story about nuts - and that's that, - or did it have consequences and impact on a third party? creating bad feeling, causing them to fall out with a person, leaving them embarrassed, making them out to be a liar etc.

I can only guess. I wasn't there!

 

[NuttMegg]

@NuttMegg , respectfully, it is not MY story about nuts, as you are well aware.

I am pointing out, that in my opinion, it is possible that WITNESSES to this event, may be called to cast a shadow upon SW's character.

A person who keeps repeating "someone else's" story is responsible for the spread of that story meant, as you say, to cast a shadow on SW's character. IMO

 

[Nikynoo]

I really do understand that during a rape trial, a victim who dressed a certain way, came to a man's bedroom, was witnessed to be giving a come on, etc, can insert doubt in the jury's collective mind. I'm old, and really do understand that, and if I were on the jury I would listen carefully to what went on before the rape, if it was a rape.
However in a domestic murder (mass murder) case, I see that the defense's only option is to dirty the murdered woman, however......"nuts"? She, as atested to by internet posters, lied about where the nuts were? When her kid had a severe allergy to nuts?
Anyway there are whole web sites devoted specifically to dirtying the murdered woman, we have outbreaks of the same here, although they are rebranded as possibilities by open minded individuals.
Still, dozens of videos of 2-3 year olds acting cute and precious...juxtaposed with a defense appearing mean-spirited by actually calling witnesses to say the murdered woman misled internet posters on SM over the placement of nuts on a kitchen island? I wish I could be on THAT jury.

You really are taking the nut thing out of context. It goes to SW's character. It wont help CW at all, in my view. As stated previously, it is *possibly* *something* that the defence may be tempted to use (if they're really, really, desperate).

 

[molly1255]

@NuttMegg , respectfully, it is not MY story about nuts, as you are well aware.

I am pointing out, that in my opinion, it is possible that WITNESSES to this event, may be called to cast a shadow upon SW's character.

These would be witnesses who are biased because they would naturally want to protect a family member from a sentence of LWOP or the death penalty, IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

A person who keeps repeating "someone else's" story is responsible for the spread of that story meant, as you say, to cast a shadow on SW's character. IMO

If you read my earlier posts you will get the context. I do not want to get into an argument in regard to something taken out of context. Thank you.

 

[Thepoet]

CW is a liar and has lied repeatedly. It is a matter of provable fact. An affair, is in and of itself, a lie! It does, of necessity involve multiple lies. Since CW's AP was a co-worker (per LE) and Anadarko has rules about employees dating, CW lied at his job. CW confessed to the affair, thus confessing to these lies. CW lied to NUA about knowing where SW was and if she was okay. CW lied to LE about his family, their well-being, and their whereabouts. CW lied repeatedly during the three interviews. CW lied to the Thayers. CW lied about adultery, lied about crimes, and lied about covering up crimes. Some of his lies are also crimes (lying to LE to hide a crime or impede an investigation, etc.)

There is no evidence that SW lied. There are SM interpretations and persons who told a story differently than SW did. That is not a lie.

There is no balance or comparison between the two!

 

[Nikynoo]

These would be witnesses who are biased because they would naturally want to protect a family member from a sentence of LWOP or the death penalty, IMO.

But, we do not know who this person is, whether they are related to CW, or SW or were a neutral visitor.

And, since you bought up the DP. Do you not think that the 2 are the same? It is unlikely that even if the DP is sought (and I have a strong suspicion that it will not) it will be implemented. So why wast more resource on seeking something that wont happen?

 

[Nikynoo]

CW is a liar and has lied repeatedly. It is a matter of provable fact. An affair, is in and of itself, a lie! It does, of necessity involve multiple lies. Since CW's AP was a co-worker (per LE) and Anadarko has rules about employees dating, CW lied at his job. CW confessed to the affair, thus confessing to these lies. CW lied to NUA about knowing where SW was and if she was okay. CW lied to LE about his family, their well-being, and their whereabouts. CW lied repeatedly during the three interviews. CW lied to the Thayers. CW lied about adultery, lied about crimes, and lied about covering up crimes. Some of his lies are also crimes (lying to LE to hide a crime or impede an investigation, etc.)

There is no evidence that SW lied. There are SM interpretations and persons who told a story differently than SW did. That is not a lie.

There is no balance or comparison between the two!

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this

 

[NuttMegg]

You really are taking the nut thing out of context. It goes to SW's character. It wont help CW at all, in my view. As stated previously, it is *possibly* *something* that the defence may be tempted to use (if they're really, really, desperate).

Sorry, can't buy it. No, lying on SM about the placement of nuts on a kitchen island does not "go to SW's character". When the father is the one charged with 5 felony murder counts and a host of accompanying charges. Are there any anecdotes you have to tell about HIS character?

 

[PajamaSleuth]

I'm sorry, but "grasping at straws"? Not really. Do you have any idea how many creeps out there molest their own children? I mean, just read this forum.

Since we're talking about a murderer here, it's completely likely that he's also a disgusting child molester. Being caught or being fearful of being caught would be a heck of a motive for murder in addition to whatever other evil he devised.

edited: I don't mean that to sound rude. I was just quoting the part that I disagreed with.

In the beginning of this case, someone on this forum suggested that CW had molested one or both of his daughters. At the time, I felt that it was a far-fetched attempt to add drama to a horrific situation. But now I feel it is quite likely true, especially given CW’s apparent hyper sexuality. The alleged AL’s claim that he enjoyed asphyxiation, which seems to be how they were killed.

And I agree that it certainly supports motive.

As for how the girls acted around him, if they were groomed over a long period of time, would it be obvious? Or if that weekend was the first instance, there might not be any indication by the way they acted around CW.
* Edit for clarification... “AL”. I meant “AP”

 

[lilaismyname]

This was interesting :

Before 18 weeks the clitoris and penis are roughly the same size and can easily be mistaken. Although you understandably really want to know the gender of your baby and prepare for his or her birth, it's best to be patient.


Signs Ultrasound Technicians Look For to Determine a Baby's Sex

What was the rush? I would prefer to wait so I know I am getting the best results. moo

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

 

[lilaismyname]

In the beginning of this case, someone on this forum suggested that CW had molested one or both of his daughters. At the time, I felt that it was a far-fetched attempt to add drama to a horrific situation. But now I feel it is quite likely true, especially given CW’s apparent hyper sexuality. The alleged AL’s claim that he enjoyed asphyxiation, which seems to be how they were killed.

And I agree that it certainly supports motive.

As for how the girls acted around him, if they were groomed over a long period of time, would it be obvious? Or if that weekend was the first instance, there might not be any indication by the way they acted around CW.

Child molestation has nothing to do with sexual desire. It is power/control issues imo.

She was a helicopter mom who worked from home. I would think his ability to molest would be very limited in that he had very little time alone with them.

moo

 

[NuttMegg]

This was interesting :

Before 18 weeks the clitoris and penis are roughly the same size and can easily be mistaken. Although you understandably really want to know the gender of your baby and prepare for his or her birth, it's best to be patient.


Signs Ultrasound Technicians Look For to Determine a Baby's Sex

What was the rush? I would prefer to wait so I know I am getting the best results. moo

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

Are you saying that SW wanting to know the gender of her child is related to "discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team"?
And google NIPT. A simple blood test that can determine a baby’s sex as early as seven weeks into pregnancy is highly accurate if used correctly Blood Test Can Tell Fetal Sex at 7 Weeks, Study Says

 

[lilaismyname]

Tried to find post but could not so I deleted post!

 

[Tortoise]

I can only guess. I wasn't there!

I don't know how it can be used against Shan'ann in any meaningful way in the trial if no one was harmed by it. It seems to me (not being involved in the earlier threads so only knowing what has been said here today about it) to be a strange tidbit to have brought up in relation to potential mud-slinging.

A lie that caused trouble for other people's lives or was in any way spiteful I can just about stretch to. A mis-representation of her own life isn't the slightest bit indicative of someone having a predisposition for infanticide, having rage issues, being unhinged or unstable, or even depressed.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I really do understand that during a rape trial, a victim who dressed a certain way, came to a man's bedroom, was witnessed to be giving a come on, etc, can insert doubt in the jury's collective mind. I'm old, and really do understand that, and if I were on the jury I would listen carefully to what went on before the rape, if it was a rape.
However in a domestic murder (mass murder) case, I see that the defense's only option is to dirty the murdered woman, however......"nuts"? She, as atested to by internet posters, lied about where the nuts were? When her kid had a severe allergy to nuts?
Anyway there are whole web sites devoted specifically to dirtying the murdered woman, we have outbreaks of the same here, although they are rebranded as possibilities by open minded individuals.
Still, dozens of videos of 2-3 year olds acting cute and precious...juxtaposed with a defense appearing mean-spirited by actually calling witnesses to say the murdered woman misled internet posters on SM over the placement of nuts on a kitchen island? I wish I could be on THAT jury.

The jury needs people that will base their verdict only on what is presented at trial. I honestly could care less who's guilty or who isn't in this case. I'm only looking for justice. I'm crossing my fingers for just that.
jmo

 

[NuttMegg]

The actually interesting part of this was the mothers comment that was something akin to she can not always get her way. IIRC

At the time I concluded they had a very conflicted relationship.

Would that be related to CW being charged with 5 felony murders? Don't forget you have not seen the more recent videos, no one still living has any idea how videos were edited, how many were private, and so forth. "She cannot always get her way"? Is that like always wanting to get the last word in? How does that relate to being a victim of murder?