CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #64

[Eli9]

Ok. So she had “false memories” because she was stressed and writing in a different language when writing the alibi scripts, but then, days later, without the script in her hand, she can meticulously remember every [false] detail of the alibi script while under the duress of a police interview after being arrested??
Her impeccable and repeated recall of the alibi script, especially things that didn’t really happen, kind of contradicts the idea she had memory issues right? If anything she was demonstrating her excellent memory of the alibi script!
Hope the state draws this contrast.

You make an excellent point about her perfect memory of the alibi script. I hope the State is able to articulate this as from what was posted earlier the expert in memory lapse hasn't even met MT and will most likely give analysis totally unrelated to MT. Will they have to argue against her research?

 

[sleuth66]

@lucegirl, Harvard law article was interesting so thank you for the link. I still have to admit to being concerned for law enforcement trying to preserve evidence while also keeping themselves safe as the cell phone rules on seizure sure seem complex!

Not sure SCOTUS did anything with its ruling to either make the issue easier to understand or for law enforcement to execute but I guess practicalities aren’t really a priority of the Court so I guess we will deal with these seizure arguments as a matter of course.

I struggle with the issue of MT phone seizure in the context that allowing her to keep her phone imo virtually ensures her wiping it and deleting cloud account as her next step that night iirc at 4Jx was for she and FD to drive to litchfield which would have been 40 min she had outside the view of law enforcement to delete data and cloud and certainly destroy the phone if she wanted.

I know judge r tossed the mt phone based on privacy but it just seems that the entire situation when 4Jx was exigent. But I think the other issue was that there was over a week between when first warrant was approved and raid on 4jx so if CSP had simply reviewed the first warrant prior to or even at the raid that the new search warrant could have been obtained.

The 4Jx situation was somewhat different than FD phone being taken at NCPD as that was at the time of disappearance and police had evidence in garage to have them be suspicious of FD and the circumstances surrounding the disappearance too.
Moo

Can you imagine, if MTs phone had been allowed, the kind of shocking messages and such we might have seen?

How many “naked” tongue out emoji messages were there? In her LE interview they alluded that she would send FD a middle finger emoji when he didn’t respond to her texts. All her IG posts of fire and whole animal carcasses roasting on a spit posted on JFDs birthday.
Lordy. While it might have helped the case, silver lining is we were spared what I’m sure were some very disgusting moments.

 

[Megnut]

Do you have any particular theories on what information he may have provided? I'd be interested in hearing those. TIA I also thank you for all you have done to keep us updated with what's happening in court. Truly appreciated!

Hmmmm...

If MT was also at the meat and greet.

If MT and KM and FD shared communication on the morning of 5/24 courtesy of devices that no longer exist.

That MT had specific pre-arranged tasks, like answering the call and getting supplies.

That KM was not at 4 JC. Or not at 8:26.

Any insight into FD or MT or FD&MT.

The content of the phone call from FD while in Hartford. Whether FD answered or MT, anything which might have been said, essentially confirming all three knew what any one of them was talking about.

How that bogus restraining order came to be.

Where he was on the morning of 5/24, all morning.

Where he was, overnight on 5/23-4.

Where MT was overnight.

How hard MT was gunning for FD to get his divorce gone.

That's what comes easily to mind.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

JS has to know they're sinking. Is he going for mistrial?

A rigorous defense is a cornerstone of our justice system

IMO this is not that.

JMO

Nope. We are seeing banana republic style defence and jmo but it’s shameful.
Moo

 

[sleuth66]

Do you have any particular theories on what information he may have provided? I'd be interested in hearing those. TIA I also thank you for all you have done to keep us updated with what's happening in court. Truly appreciated!

This article has some intriguing tidbits about a KM associate and phone calls with FD the day of the murder. LE seized this guy’s phone, wonder if we will hear more about that if/when KM goes to trial.

Attorney: Police conduct ‘strip search’ of client’s phone in Jennifer Dulos case

Investigators obtained a search warrant to examine Michelle Troconis’ phone for all...

www.ctinsider.com

 

[afitzy]

Can you imagine, if MTs phone had been allowed, the kind of shocking messages and such we might have seen?

How many “naked” tongue out emoji messages were there? In her LE interview they alluded that she would send FD a middle finger emoji when he didn’t respond to her texts. All her IG posts of fire and whole animal carcasses roasting on a spit posted on JFDs birthday.
Lordy. While it might have helped the case, silver lining is we were spared what I’m sure were some very disgusting moments.

Rest assured that the State has all of the MT social media, the bogus accounts and the family accounts. Folks have been following the family for years now and State is aware of it all. No worries. MOO

 

[afitzy]

This article has some intriguing tidbits about a KM associate and phone calls with FD the day of the murder. LE seized this guy’s phone, wonder if we will hear more about that if/when KM goes to trial.

Attorney: Police conduct ‘strip search’ of client’s phone in Jennifer Dulos case

Investigators obtained a search warrant to examine Michelle Troconis’ phone for all...

www.ctinsider.com

Yes, I think this is the Armenian car dealer. Very interesting character. Moo

 

[afitzy]

It’s not an issue as my understanding is that they all were already screenshot and sent to the State. No worries. Also social media lasts almost forever and even the items previously scrubbed exist somewhere imo.

Victim shaming and blaming as a defence strategy rarely ends well imo and in this case it certainly won’t. Folks have been collecting MT social media going back years too so nothing is really gone, it’s just not yet visible.
Moo

I just wanted to respond to my OP on the issue of my ongoing advocacy for a gag of defendant and relatives in this case.

In rethinking my position on the gag and after reviewing nearly 4 years of social media I now perhaps think that there might have been some value in seeing all the posts as a collective as they show a distinctive imo pattern of posting, POV along with much information imo as to who and what the Defendant is as a human being.

I feel horribly that JF friends and family had to endure the social media gutter of the Defendant and family but at this point given all that has happened it’s possible to simply look back and realise that there is now simply no doubt as to who the Defendant and her family are. The defendant can delete all her accounts today and it won’t matter because copies of everything exist with the State.

I think it’s shameful that the State did zero before the computer screen debacle to protect the victims in this case from the social media gutter and even with the screen gate issues the State did zero to protect the report.

Idk if we have inexperienced prosecutors or they aren’t being adequately supervised. And, where was Judge r?

All I can say is delete away, won’t make a bit of difference imo.
Moo

 

[lucegirl]

I’m still suffering through interview 3 in small pieces.

This little bait and switch exchange caught my ear - regarding her ease of lying and misdirection.

LE tries to take the floor to tee up what they say is a really important question - one that will determine whether or not they can trust her. The questions is LE: “When you come to your room between 6:30 and 6:40, was FD there?” MT: “No”. LE: “ So you lied - he wasn’t there - he wasn’t in your shower.” MT: “No it’s not a lie because we usually take a shower together - you know we are couple - with relationship.” So she ignores the predicate of the question as to lying about FB being home when he wasn’t - and explains away to LE that she didn’t mean to say they showered together. Ugh! The showering is irrelevant and inferred if he is not there to shower. I just cannot with this!

 

[pernickety]

I agree. And on the second point, as to in court AF and MT interactions, might this be referring to post #1419 in the prior thread #63 (page 71) showing an exchange between them relating to the laptop? MOO. (If not, apologies given for the intrusion on the point. And I am not quite sure how to pull that in here from a closed thread.) IMO

Maybe this will work:
Post in thread 'CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #63'
CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #63

No, I couldn't find it. Felsen went on at some length--"tete a tete" between her and MT. Thanks for your efforts.

 

[afitzy]

I’m still suffering through interview 3 in small pieces.

This little bait and switch exchange caught my ear - regarding her ease of lying and misdirection.

LE tries to take the floor to tee up what they say is a really important question - one that will determine whether or not they can trust her. The questions is LE: “When you come to your room between 6:30 and 6:40, was FD there?” MT: “No”. LE: “ So you lied - he wasn’t there - he wasn’t in your shower.” MT: “No it’s not a lie because we usually take a shower together - you know we are couple - with relationship.” So she ignores the predicate of the question as to lying about FB being home when he wasn’t - and explains away to LE that she didn’t mean to say they showered together. Ugh! The showering is irrelevant and inferred if he is not there to shower. I just cannot with this!

Hang on my friend because it only gets worse. Fwiw hard seltzer helps a lot!

I’d really like to watch it with a Psyd or Atty bowman or even atty Pattis (but not in same room with him, he would have to be in his own space!) to get their insight as I think we might just have a well seasoned liar of unknown variety on our hands! MT seems to be doing the interview for her own entertainment too but it’s when she seems to get annoyed at LE for interrupting and redirecting her performance where I really laugh hard. Watch her face during a redirection or prodding from law enforcement, priceless. For awhile I was counting the number of extranous details in a sentence and I got as many as 10 in a single response. I can barely string a sentence together with maybe one thought on a good day but MT is an Olympian imo on the deceptive chatter team! It’s impressive. I’d like to see the chart done by LE tracking her responses. Hope the state shows that as
An exhibit at trial as it’s brilliant and in full colour on the big screen would be a bullseye imo!

By the end of the interview I felt somewhat sorry for atty bowman as I bet he zoomed the Maserati back to the office after that interview and personally typed and then mailed his letter that he could no longer represent her!

May the force be with you….and congrats if you make it to the end.



Moo

 

[Megnut]

No, I couldn't find it. Felsen went on at some length--"tete a tete" between her and MT. Thanks for your efforts.

4:39. This?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

You make an excellent point about her perfect memory of the alibi script. I hope the State is able to articulate this as from what was posted earlier the expert in memory lapse hasn't even met MT and will most likely give analysis totally unrelated to MT. Will they have to argue against her research?

Yes on this! And perhaps the state can nicely step through this on cross with the memory expert? MOO

And just like the words of this Earth, Wind, & Fire gem ‘September’, a single from circa 1978 if references are correct, “Do you remember?”:

 

[afitzy]

4:39. This?

CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #63

MOO So... FD had his beloved Mercier bike in the garage at 80 MS... on 5/24, so out of place (from its hook in the garage at 4 JC) that PG asked FD if he was in training. Is that the moment FD decided he needed to part with his bike?

www.websleuths.com

@Megnut, why do you think Schoenhorn leans over and whispers as well?

 

[Ruminations]

Ok. So she had “false memories” because she was stressed and writing in a different language when writing the alibi scripts, but then, days later, without the script in her hand, she can meticulously remember every [false] detail of the alibi script while under the duress of a police interview after being arrested??
Her impeccable and repeated recall of the alibi script, especially things that didn’t really happen, kind of contradicts the idea she had memory issues right? If anything she was demonstrating her excellent memory of the alibi script!
Hope the state draws this contrast.

Right?

And when writing the alibi scripts, are we to believe she "forgot" lighting indoor fires and the trip to Hartford, because it was soooo long ago, and falsely remembered some routine rug run at a conveniently closed establishment?

Ptah. Not going to fly.

We may not hear this memory expert. She would have to have sent a report. Maybe Judge Randolph would have generously allowed until Friday midnight California time.

I believe most of her work is about recovered memories from long ago. My amateur understanding is some details of recovered memories might really be in the brain like memories, but not reliably accurate. Especially those details that could be filled in by suggestions and routines.

Let's see how this works for Michelle.

So, let's say on a hot day in May, so hot you claimed to attempt to water ski, you happened to light a few indoor fires. You were handed a soiled paper towel, and threw it away. Things like that. But it was soooo long ago, you forgot this when you were writing your timeline or talking to LE. In theory, you could fill in the blanks with suggestions or routines, and incorporate that in your memory. Things like making out in a driveway or cleaning a porch...both at a house where you do not live...everyday routine things. These things fill the gaps of your memory because the forgotten events were so long ago. And that's what this witness might say happened to Michelle. She didn't lie, her memory was faulty.

But...these events were in the very near past. So, it's hard to believe these details were forgotten.

And...the unreliable fill-in memories are conveniently not tampering with evidence while the forgotten-than-filled-in-memories-not-lies happen inconveniently to be tampering with evidence. For these examples. Hmmm.



If this psychologist does testify, it will be all abstractions, because this cognitive psychologist has never examined Michelle Troconis. If she tries to apply her theories specifically to real examples of Michelle's changing stories in spite of not interviewing Michelle, I think it will just annoy the jury with its absurdity. The prosecution will be able to follow up on any statement she makes and expose the unlikeliness that the truth was forgotten, and expose how the criminal acts were the ones claimed to be forgotten.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Pull out your bingo cards.

I've been reviewing Thursday's testimony and watching just how long that document, in large font, was present in front of the defendant and her attorney.

Atty McGuinness asks for the sidebar, the defendant returns her screen to desktop view, and while Counsel is at side bar, leans back and puts in eye drops.

Seriously. She's on trial for conspiracy to murder. She's feet away from the judge and jury and the whole world is her bathroom vanity?

Who does that?

JM0

6:40

Her eyes were so tired, she needed large font … and eye drops.

 

[afitzy]

Can you imagine, if MTs phone had been allowed, the kind of shocking messages and such we might have seen?

How many “naked” tongue out emoji messages were there? In her LE interview they alluded that she would send FD a middle finger emoji when he didn’t respond to her texts. All her IG posts of fire and whole animal carcasses roasting on a spit posted on JFDs birthday.
Lordy. While it might have helped the case, silver lining is we were spared what I’m sure were some very disgusting moments.

The thing is that LE in the interviews brought in a good amount of the MT phone traffic and comments. I agree with you that i wish we had it all. Can you imagine just the traffic between MT and Mama Troconis - testimony GOLD imo!

The third interview shows LE saying that MT is essentially bird dogging FD each day and every day by text and showed her to send him the middle finger if he didn't respond. BUT, no such traffic exists on the murder date. Why? It was like the classic LE statement to MT about all her receipts, "I've seen your car and you aren't that organised"! Brilliant. LE had MT number as did Atty Colangelo who knew she would never speak. He walked out of the conference room and probably never gave MT another thought as he knew she was simply a waste of time in him doing what he needed to do to move his investigation forward imo.

Who here that has watched all the 3 painful interviews can believe that MT DID NOT KNOW where FD was on the Murder Date?

We have also learned from the LE Interviews that MT probably has the equivalent of the PhD in prevarication and deception with true board certification in lying under pressure and crying (with no tears btw) under pressure and perfectly symmetrical waving arms and then when she senses she has lost her audience she simply takes a bow and puts her hands on the table and follows it with her head. It was her peaking up through her arms on the table I think in the second interview that had me on the floor as she was seeing if the discomfort from LE trying to get her to talk about JF had been successfully avoided. When she sensed it was ok to emerge she lifted up her head and prayed LE had forgotten about the highly annoying JF but sadly LE brought her right back to it and boy IMO did MT look angry!

The LE interviews were genius imo as to explaining MT and I do hope the jury puts the pieces together as there is no need to see MT on the stand. But, I think one of the quotes of the trial had to go to Jon Schoenhorn when after the first two interviews were shown said something to the effect of, "Michelle wouldn't have said anything differently on the stand than she did in the interviews"! CAN YOU IMAGINE the jury hearing MORE? MT seems incapable of answering even the most basic of questions. I'd loved to have watched her do it all in spanish and for awhile I was amusing myself translating her responses and seeing if it made much difference to how I felt about her responses. It didn't. It just made it all the more inexplicable but even more funny as it made even less sense in spanish.

MT could not be pinned down on anything. She uses words like 'usually' in her answers to a question when its a yes/no question and then you get into the 'usually yes' and 'usually no' answers. Its hard to actually find any yes or no answers anywhere in the interviews.

I just chalk it all up to performance art by a masterful liar. Because I am a glutton for pain I have been rewatching portions as I am hoping to find some small teeny tiny nuggets of what I am calling "maybe truths" in the MT testimony. But, its hard going with MT which is why I'm actually now listening to LE more in the interviews as they actually are sharing some interesting info imo.

MOO

 

[Genieeasy]

I was really thinking a lot about KM today. He had to be involved in a big way especially given his attempt to escape over the Mass border when pursued by CSP. Were his cell records ever revealed? Or will they be if he gets to a trial of his own? I cannot believe FD took what happened to JF remains to his grave. There was just not enough time to get everything that we assume happened done. We know her DNA was in her Suburban and in PG Tacoma. I did hear something about a doorbell camera capturing the other Suburban with the body damage at end of cul du sac Thurton Drive that has a beeline through the woods to the Welles Lane property. But if that were true it would have come up in evidence by now. Was KM in New Canaan 5/24 am? I truly want this trial to give some closure to the Farber family… even if it confirms every nightmare scenario.
Oh and agree with everyone who said MT would have been better off with Bowman… but AB obviously didn’t feel that way about MT.

 

[afitzy]

Right?

And when writing the alibi scripts, are we to believe she "forgot" lighting indoor fires and the trip to Hartford, because it was soooo long ago, and falsely remembered some routine rug run at a conveniently closed establishment?

Ptah. Not going to fly.

We may not hear this memory expert. She would have to have sent a report. Maybe Judge Randolph would have generously allowed until Friday midnight California time.

I believe most of her work is about recovered memories from long ago. My amateur understanding is some details of recovered memories might really be in the brain like memories, but not reliably accurate. Especially those details that could be filled in by suggestions and routines.

Let's see how this works for Michelle.

So, let's say on a hot day in May, so hot you claimed to attempt to water ski, you happened to light a few indoor fires. You were handed a soiled paper towel, and threw it away. Things like that. But it was soooo long ago, you forgot this when you were writing your timeline or talking to LE. In theory, you could fill in the blanks with suggestions or routines, and incorporate that in your memory. Things like making out in a driveway or cleaning a porch...both at a house where you do not live...everyday routine things. These things fill the gaps of your memory because the forgotten events were so long ago. And that's what this witness might say happened to Michelle. She didn't lie, her memory was faulty.

But...these events were in the very near past. So, it's hard to believe these details were forgotten.

And...the unreliable fill-in memories are conveniently not tampering with evidence while the forgotten-than-filled-in-memories-not-lies happen inconveniently to be tampering with evidence. For these examples. Hmmm.



If this psychologist does testify, it will be all abstractions, because this cognitive psychologist has never examined Michelle Troconis. If she tries to apply her theories specifically to real examples of Michelle's changing stories in spite of not interviewing Michelle, I think it will just annoy the jury with its absurdity. The prosecution will be able to follow up on any statement she makes and expose the unlikeliness that the truth was forgotten, and expose how the criminal acts were the ones claimed to be forgotten.

MOO

@Ruminations, have you seen that this good doctor has been actively on the stand over the years in defence of defendants accused of sexual violence?

Reading some of the cases now.

Should be interesting.

MOO

 

[marcom]

4:39. This?

That was one of the few moments I caught and I was a bit freaked out by MT's smile - like a vicious animal baring its teeth.