Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #5

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Fran, I don't think hypothermia has anything to do with the deaths per se unless it is part of the plan to begin with. The cause of death is drowning not hypothermia. The bodies being positioned with the arms folded across the chest or out in front of them is not consistent with someone battling hypothermia or being able to try swimming or struggling to get out of the water. It doesn't apply here that I can see.
 
fran said:
That would be great RR if you can find something out!

Thanks,
fran
:)
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Well, if it's the Gorge...it's nowhere near the location he went missing in Rochester. Do they think he fell into the Genesee River and traveled downstream to the Gorge? I need to find more articles. Why they would start the search there is not clear from the article linked here...unless he drove down to the park (Letchworth) after leaving the bar in Rochester. I'll keep digging.
 
The owner of the club, John Chmiel, says Jackson was involved in a two altercations with music hall security and friends in a parking lot on Front Street. Following the second altercation, Jackson took off across the inner loop before security guards could catch up with him. Security last saw him jump a fence that led into the gorge at High Falls.

Since then Jackson's family and girlfriend have been looking for him. They reported him missing Sunday, and they say search crews started looking for him Tuesday. Chmiel says they did not call police once Jackson ran off because he had not committed a crime and no one was looking to press charges.

http://rochesterhomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=20861

Something sounds fishy with that story to me.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Fran, I don't think hypothermia has anything to do with the deaths per se unless it is part of the plan to begin with. The cause of death is drowning not hypothermia. The bodies being positioned with the arms folded across the chest or out in front of them is not consistent with someone battling hypothermia or being able to try swimming or struggling to get out of the water. It doesn't apply here that I can see.
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Hypothermia is largely a COD used when not attributable to any other known or presumed cause. IN these instances, the only 3 ways to conclude Hypo as COD, would be:
1)evidence of fact as to HOW the individual got into the water, and time, reasonable certainty as to TOD. (ie: eyewitness account)
2)Absence of any other contributions as to COD (drowning ruled out based on autopsy)
3) Absence of any other contributions as to COD AND specific signs of Hypothermia within the internal organs and Tox reports- which would be next to impossible to determine as in a NORMAL corpse (no decompostion, or death following rescue and inability to raise body temp to achieve recussitation) because hypo in this situation would present almost or nothing at autopsy as to both external and incisive exams.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
While Blink and I normally agree, this man fits the profile in my head of the type of person I think of as being involved in these homicides/drownings. I believe there are more of them, too.

We don't know if there were sexual assaults in the other cases. The forensics could not determine anything if those wounds (bruises, redness, swelling etc.) were healed or if no damage was done internally. Or if the ME and LE simply did NOT LOOK! We do suspect mental torture and this certainly sounds like that is part of what this creep did to both men.
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OK SS, you knew this was coming, here is a post from another blog I felt I would also post here, as I am changing my thoughts on this case with further research:

.."The problem with connecting ALL the cases is that just based on the current evidence regarding the two men found that were captives of Lanphear, there WERE obvious bruises, lacerations, and sexual abuse. While I admit in some of the cases you referenced, it is certainly a possibility of a connection, the findings on the vics (most) do not support evidence of beatings or external physical torture. I can't say for certain about the sex abuse, I believe that exam is based on how the remains "present" or other evidence that would indicate the possibility.
The problem I see, and to be honest, this opinion has changed since he was first arrested, is that I do not believe this freak is sophisticated enough to perpetrate this long, with this many vics, in this manner, alone, and go undetected, and then be dumb enough to slip up and one gets away-
That being said, I agree that he very well may be on the fringe of whatever "network" is responsible, and it could be the ole "one for you, two for me.." skimming from the kitty.
He is dangerous, and I sincerely hope they bring the FBI in on this, there is more.."

Blink34 | 07.14.08 - 10:29 am |

When I say above the "one for you, two for me.." scenario, I remember these types have a way of finding one another, even being "aware" of each other.. It seems plausible that if we believe their is an established heirarchy at work here in the big pic, and that is my opinion, than it would operate like any other "org" and their are members that go rogue, break the rules, and of course F-up. This could very well be there "Fredo".
 
SeriouslySearching said:
snip.
Following the second altercation, Jackson took off across the inner loop before security guards could catch up with him. Security last saw him jump a fence that led into the gorge at High Falls.

Chmiel says they did not call police once Jackson ran off because he had not committed a crime and no one was looking to press charges.
snip

Why are security guards chasing someone once they left the premises and admittedly had not committed a crime??
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Excellent question, Blink! Why indeed? Gaszinta.

Glad to see you bending over to read the fine print. LOL He could be on the fringe and we do know there must be others. I can't imagine what possible motive he had for two men in his possession, but we need to look at the dates again. Was there a reason he thought this would be to his favor?
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Excellent question, Blink! Why indeed? Gaszinta.

Glad to see you bending over to read the fine print. LOL He could be on the fringe and we do know there must be others. I can't imagine what possible motive he had for two men in his possession, but we need to look at the dates again. Was there a reason he thought this would be to his favor?
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LOL, guess I deserved that, ROTFL..
Eve hours 7/4- early 7/5 the 23 year old
5:30 am 7/6- 7/7 the 21 year old.

Unless I missed this, these guys were taken 24 hours apart, not one week that was earlier reported.
On the favor issue, possibly, if he was planning on holding them for a week and this was "prep" I would be compelled to buy that. I'm not seeing anything else yet that ties it except the last known places, bars, drugging and the witness account that he was known to frequent these hang outs.

I go back to the obvious sexual motivation here, it does not fit for me in the overall cases. However, I may be inclined to think that some cases may NOT be related to the "drownings"- I think he's a local, and in the local general area, any MP man case that had similar "beginnings" should be reviewed. The fact that there has not been any findings on his last property to date tells me if we are right and this is not his first time- he had to dispose of them somewhere...

I think they will find something on his computer that will also open this up for us. I also think his M.O. of posing as a cop is insightful..
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Kelly Nolan was the last known to have been out at a bar and fitting the physical descriptions of the other women. Her murder remains unsolved. The other murders listed on the thread for the women are also unsolved.

This "trend" was pointed out by the ME working the first few murders of the women in that area at the time. He was quoted as pointing out the similarities of all the cases up until then.
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I'll have to check it out SS. I am familiar with the Nolan case.

fran
 
SheerLuck said:
On Shadows chart of deaths from drowning, Washington State and Idaho both have a drowning; not sure about Colorado or Utah; although Utah has less drinking by a wide margin than all of America. Statistically; the odds would be that most cold areas of America that have college bars near rivers probably have had an accidental drowing death since 1960. Some might have had several; some might have had just 1; but it looks like the pattern or 3-5 college men dieing from accidental drowning will continue happening every year in cold weather states that have bars near rivers and creeks
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So Washington State has 'one,' Idaho has 'one,' 'two,' in how many years. While Wisconsin has how many in just 'one school year?'

We'll never agree on this so we'll just 'agree to disagree.'
fran

THE PERFECT CRIME IS WHEN NO CRIME HAS BEEN DETECTED!:waitasec:

THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE WHEN IT COMES TO MURDER:eek:
 
SeriouslySearching said:
The difference is that girls aren't being abducted and put into bodies of water like the boys are. They are being killed tho.

I think there are several of the girls' cases in and around Madison, WI that could be connected here. However, their manner of death has been almost like someone was trying to figure out the perfect murder, imo. (The perp/perps have not been caught yet either.) Trying different methods to create perhaps a "perfect" one maybe. Stabbing, shooting, burning, strangulation, etc. have turned up as methods used on various female victims...while their bodies have been found in wooded areas and all except for one or two were out partying when last seen alive. These women were also of the same age frame, physical build, and looks. They also had a connection to the University of Wisconsin either in Madison or other places. There are many factors present in both series of deaths/murders.
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SS- if you have compiled data/links on these cases, perhaps you could start a thread on them here, similar to the format of the potential vics by State we did, or simply just post them in the "deaths of college students portion?" As you know I have always thought that the big picture here was not just the college aged men scenario, but I think the women angle is less overt; which would make sense considering they get the bulk of the publicity.

Your the format expert- but I would be interested in taking a look at what you have as I am sure so would the rest of WS-:blowkiss:
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Fran, I don't think hypothermia has anything to do with the deaths per se unless it is part of the plan to begin with. The cause of death is drowning not hypothermia. The bodies being positioned with the arms folded across the chest or out in front of them is not consistent with someone battling hypothermia or being able to try swimming or struggling to get out of the water. It doesn't apply here that I can see.
Click to expand...

When drowning or cold water hypothermia is the determined cause of death; it means the person is alive BEFORE they enter the water; which goes right along with the arguement that these are simple accidental drowning and that these kids are not murdered BEFORE they enter the water. All of these kids had water in their lungs so it was determined that they did not die until after they entered the water; so they were not murdered and placed into the water(except for maybe Chris Jenkins). When a person dies from cold water drowning most coroners or pathologists will simply term the deaths; "drownings"; because the person will almost always go under and gulp down water before they actually die. Water in the lungs is drowning. In warmer water the person has a few hours to rescue themselves and more importantly; their arms and legs do not lose strength for several hours. In water under 40 degrees the body temperature drops 10 degrees quickly and hypothermia will set in. The arms and legs will go numb and a person will not be able to swim; sometimes within minutes. The muscles are numb and restrict and disorientation will set in; sometimes within minues. Alcohol and thrashing about serve to speed this up very quickly. The person will drown because they cannot swim and stay afloat. Its hypothermia that speeds this up which is why most accidental drownings happen in cold water
 
Blink34 said:
LOL, guess I deserved that, ROTFL..
Eve hours 7/4- early 7/5 the 23 year old
5:30 am 7/6- 7/7 the 21 year old.

Unless I missed this, these guys were taken 24 hours apart, not one week that was earlier reported.
On the favor issue, possibly, if he was planning on holding them for a week and this was "prep" I would be compelled to buy that. I'm not seeing anything else yet that ties it except the last known places, bars, drugging and the witness account that he was known to frequent these hang outs.

I go back to the obvious sexual motivation here, it does not fit for me in the overall cases. However, I may be inclined to think that some cases may NOT be related to the "drownings"- I think he's a local, and in the local general area, any MP man case that had similar "beginnings" should be reviewed. The fact that there has not been any findings on his last property to date tells me if we are right and this is not his first time- he had to dispose of them somewhere...

I think they will find something on his computer that will also open this up for us. I also think his M.O. of posing as a cop is insightful..
Click to expand...
Yes, the cop part stood out to me. Did you happen to see his myspace page? I will have to track it down.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Yes, the cop part stood out to me. Did you happen to see his myspace page? I will have to track it down.
Click to expand...

Please do, I did not because I remember reading somewhere that it was not actually his, but dont know that for sure.
 
Blink34 said:
SS- if you have compiled data/links on these cases, perhaps you could start a thread on them here, similar to the format of the potential vics by State we did, or simply just post them in the "deaths of college students portion?" As you know I have always thought that the big picture here was not just the college aged men scenario, but I think the women angle is less overt; which would make sense considering they get the bulk of the publicity.

Your the format expert- but I would be interested in taking a look at what you have as I am sure so would the rest of WS-:blowkiss:
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the girls' cases? I believe I have a thread up already about them here. Let me go check.
 
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