Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

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Bold is mine. You can't think of anything her parents might of done differently to make their daughter trustworthy, or teach her to face responsibility for her actions that would have mattered???

How about giving her consequenses when she steals from them or from Lee or from Grandma and grandpa? Or how about not teaching her to lie- by lying? Or teaching her responsibility and make her pay her own cell phone bill or some rent $? Or NOT cleaning up her messes for her, NOT proving her with everything she needs and then some?

Read your post again because everything you listed that these parents have done (paying her way in life, covering up her lies, letting her get away with stealing from family members- themselves included etc) and what they have NOT done has taught her how to be the lying, sneaky, manipulative, devious, cold hearted thief (I'm not going to say murder because THAT isn't Cindy or Georges fault) that she is.

I see plenty they could have done and plenty they could have stopped doing that would have mattered!

Read about Antisocial Personality Disorder. That's the modern word for sociopath.

All the therapy and the best treatments available don't help. Love, meds, church...they can't make the sociopath care or feel.

I believe if the Anthony family had approached Casey differently, the outcome would have been the same.

IMO
 
As far as reporting theft goes, you may or may not know that parents are often discouraged from reporting dependent children who steal small amounts of money from them merely “to teach them a lesson”. The reason is that gives them a criminal record that could have significant impact on their ability to get a job in the near future. Many employers check those things out in the hiring process and choose not to hire thieves.

KC was 22 years old and by every account I’ve read her stealing escalated with her newly discovered friends and single party life. The theft from the nursing home account was $50 I believe. The real issue is not the money, it was the BETRAYAL. Do you honestly think she would of become a changed person if that was reported? Anthony’s certainly would not have been granted permanent custody of Caylee over just that.

(snipped)

I don't consider the issue betrayal, but theft, anger & resentments. I don't consider the $4,500 she stole from GA "small"..........if they had prosecuted her then with the thefts from the grandparents, Caylee might be alive today.

Do I think she might have been a "changed person?" Maybe, with some time in the county jail, loss of Caylee would have changed her approach to life. At least if she lost Caylee, she could have partied until she did herself in, instead of Caylee.

All we can do is look backward in any case to see what the catalysts were in someone's life. That is what psychologists/psychiatrists do with patients to see how to help shape the future.
 
Read about Antisocial Personality Disorder. That's the modern word for sociopath.

All the therapy and the best treatments available don't help. Love, meds, church...they can't make the sociopath care or feel.

I believe if the Anthony family had approached Casey differently, the outcome would have been the same.

IMO

That is a long debated subject. You might want to read "Virus of the Mind" for a more in depth study of how personalities are formed though programming by parents. I believe that knowledge of memetics is important when looking at any case like this.
 
And that is why we must teach them these things while they are children. By the time they are adults they will be used to facing the consequences of their actions.

I was one of the ones who never had to face any, I had a mother like Cindy who wanted to fix everything that happened to me (she refused to see that it was I that was creating everything bad that happened- ya know, like everyone here keeps calling DENIAL in Cindy?!) and it teaches nothing other than you can do whatever you want to do, lie to whoever you want to and get away with it. By the time you are an adult you master these skills that were given to you unknowingly by your parents in childhood.


I'm with you on this, cindy and george enabled casey by minimizing her behavior and not teaching her that there are consequences for her behavior.

After reading some of the emails from the famly to each other and to cindy it is apparent to me that george did not work for the bulk of his adult life. What on earth did he think he was teaching his daughter with that behavior, lets just lay around and allow mom to work her butt off while we sponge off her. George took advantage of cindy and he taught his daugher to do the same thing. No wonder inmate casey thought nothing of stealing from others, that is basically what she saw her father do to her mother.

Then having known that her mother would have had to give george half of the house that she paid for and to pay this man alimony on top of that, the message to inmate casey was clear.
 
Read about Antisocial Personality Disorder. That's the modern word for sociopath.

All the therapy and the best treatments available don't help. Love, meds, church...they can't make the sociopath care or feel.

I believe if the Anthony family had approached Casey differently, the outcome would have been the same.

IMO

I completely agree.
 
That first recorded conversation between KC and CA shocked me. They are only concerned about one issue - who bears the fault for KC being in jail. "It's not my fault." "Then who's fault is it? It's not my fault." "You didn't tell the truth, Sweetheart."

I ask everyone here to stand in CA's shoes for 2 seconds. Would you be calling KC "Sweeheart" after you just learned that she has been lying about work for 2 years AND lost your grandchild last month but said not a word AND the car just cost you $500 to get it out of the tow yard and smelled like a rotting corpse? "Sweetheart" would not be my choice of words.
 
Isn’t it tempting to sit here and judge? You think you can pinpoint exactly where they went wrong .......... but you are looking BACKWARD through only a narrowly scoped tunnel into their lives, and only the negative parts at that. If you can predict murder your talents will be much in demand and I wish you much success.

Anyone can look backward. It’s like looking at a car’s tracks on a fresh blanket of snow. But look ahead and you see nothingness. The fact is the majority of families are no different than the Anthonys. And 99.9% of the children of these families will NOT grow up to be murders. But pick, pick, pick, I guarantee you, you could find "signs" in everyone. Human beings are not perfect. As children mature something clicks into place, some sooner, some later, there’s good times, there’s bad times, and parents breathe a huge silent sigh of relief when their children finally become independent. Look around, these typical families are everywhere.

In KCs taped interviews/calls with her parents, did you notice how ticked off she was because she couldn’t get out of jail. Did you notice she never showed any remorse or blamed herself for anything? Did you see that several times her parents urged her to talk to whoever she felt comfortable talking to, and asked that she tell the truth and not worry about them? They never asked her to lie or keep quiet, not once.

As far as reporting theft goes, you may or may not know that parents are often discouraged from reporting dependent children who steal small amounts of money from them merely “to teach them a lesson”. The reason is that gives them a criminal record that could have significant impact on their ability to get a job in the near future. Many employers check those things out in the hiring process and choose not to hire thieves.

KC was 22 years old and by every account I’ve read her stealing escalated with her newly discovered friends and single party life. The theft from the nursing home account was $50 I believe. The real issue is not the money, it was the BETRAYAL. Do you honestly think she would of become a changed person if that was reported? Anthony’s certainly would not have been granted permanent custody of Caylee over just that.

Your comments make we wonder why it seems you are angry at the Anthonys for what they did or didn’t do, but I’m not sure why. If either of them were actively involved in Caylee’s death, then they would deserve whatever mud was slung at them. To this point in time there is nothing to suggest that. CA did the right thing - she reported Caylee’s disappearance. As for KC....she was 22 years old and if her life was so bad, her mother so ruthless, her choice should have been to move out, get a job, find other single moms to hang out with, and find a safe environment where her child could be raised - give up custody of Caylee to whoever she chose - or walk into a hospital/mental health unit/phoned a crisis line and ask for help.

Don’t discourage the drive and perseverance of people who may be reading this forum at this very moment looking to take positive steps toward improving their lives, or tarnish the fortitude of those who have taken risks and have already accomplished that. By that I mean both parents and dependent adult children. This outcome was an absolute worst case scenario.

This case is a long way from going to trial and most of what we know at this point in time is based on unproven information, rumor and speculation. My question to you. Do you believe the parents are all or in part responsible for “something” that happened.... without even knowing what happened? If so, what are the consequences to KC. Do you see the irony in that?
Yikes, forgive me for quoting all this!

All we have here, as in any other case, is hindsight. We are not talking about crimes that WILL occur, but about crimes that HAVE occurred. In this attempt to understand the HOW this could have happened, I feel it is necessary to examine every aspect of the case. I, personally, rely on others' input to help better understand what's at issue. I wouldn't minimize the "thefts". There was a lot more stolen...and yes, it was going on for a long period of time with "NO CONSEQUENCES". Actually, it was the real reason for the initial 911 call. I think life was h*ll in the Anthony home. I'm not sure the As really had any kind of parent/daughter relationship for a long time. I think they did enable Casey and nothing good came of it. I think this was a dysfunctional family with a dysfunctional child. I have some knowledge of how this all works, but there are others here who have provided me with even greater insight, and for that I'm appreciative.
 
That first recorded conversation between KC and CA shocked me. They are only concerned about one issue - who bears the fault for KC being in jail. "It's not my fault." "Then who's fault is it? It's not my fault." "You didn't tell the truth, Sweetheart."

I ask everyone here to stand in CA's shoes for 2 seconds. Would you be calling KC "Sweeheart" after you just learned that she has been lying about work for 2 years AND lost your grandchild last month but said not a word AND the car just cost you $500 to get it out of the tow yard and smelled like a rotting corpse? "Sweetheart" would not be my choice of words.

To me, this makes sense. Cindy wants Casey to talk and is in total fear and it makes perfect sense that she would walk on eggshells with Casey so Casey doesn't clam up completely.

I'm sure that Cindy is aware that after their big fight when Cindy was confronting and yelling that what happened is that Casey LEFT with Caylee and Cindy didn't see her week after week after week, even though Casey was constantly promising Cindy on the phone that she was going to bring Caylee over.


Why would Cindy perpetuate harsh words/"tough love" knowing where it got her on the 15th?
 
I'm with you on this, cindy and george enabled casey by minimizing her behavior and not teaching her that there are consequences for her behavior.

After reading some of the emails from the famly to each other and to cindy it is apparent to me that george did not work for the bulk of his adult life. What on earth did he think he was teaching his daughter with that behavior, lets just lay around and allow mom to work her butt off while we sponge off her. George took advantage of cindy and he taught his daugher to do the same thing. No wonder inmate casey thought nothing of stealing from others, that is basically what she saw her father do to her mother.

Then having known that her mother would have had to give george half of the house that she paid for and to pay this man alimony on top of that, the message to inmate casey was clear.

Bolded by me.
Do you feel this way about women who don't work as well?
Personally, I would be in heaven if I was the only one working and my husband stayed home. I hate housework, and would be thrilled to have it ALL be his job.
Lanie
 
That first recorded conversation between KC and CA shocked me. They are only concerned about one issue - who bears the fault for KC being in jail. "It's not my fault." "Then who's fault is it? It's not my fault." "You didn't tell the truth, Sweetheart."

I ask everyone here to stand in CA's shoes for 2 seconds. Would you be calling KC "Sweeheart" after you just learned that she has been lying about work for 2 years AND lost your grandchild last month but said not a word AND the car just cost you $500 to get it out of the tow yard and smelled like a rotting corpse? "Sweetheart" would not be my choice of words.

You KNOW I would be calling her sweetheart.........like h*ll, I would. That sure would not have been my choice of words, and I would not have cared if they taped them or not.
 
To me, this makes sense. Cindy wants Casey to talk and is in total fear and it makes perfect sense that she would walk on eggshells with Casey so Casey doesn't clam up completely.

I'm sure that Cindy is aware that after their big fight when Cindy was confronting and yelling that what happened is that Casey LEFT with Caylee and Cindy didn't see her week after week after week, even though Casey was constantly promising Cindy on the phone that she was going to bring Caylee over.


Why would Cindy perpetuate harsh words/"tough love" knowing where it got her on the 15th?
Well, if it didn't ring true for us then I doubt Casey bought it either. I think this whole family has(d) a tough time talking to each other. I mean your child/grandchild is missing and you're talking about television performances?
 
To me, this makes sense. Cindy wants Casey to talk and is in total fear and it makes perfect sense that she would walk on eggshells with Casey so Casey doesn't clam up completely.

I'm sure that Cindy is aware that after their big fight when Cindy was confronting and yelling that what happened is that Casey LEFT with Caylee and Cindy didn't see her week after week after week, even though Casey was constantly promising Cindy on the phone that she was going to bring Caylee over.


Why would Cindy perpetuate harsh words/"tough love" knowing where it got her on the 15th?

At that point, I would not have cared. I would not have bought the LIE either, so that is where CA & I are totally different. I would have relied on my instincts and her past behaviors instead of trying to get a pathological liar to tell me the truth. She would have heard MY truth.......
 
Recently I have been thinking about this therapist that cindy went to and I can't hardly believe that this person actually told cindy to throw inmate casey and baby Caylee out and to not support them.

Either this therapist was completely incompetent or cindy did not tell this person the complete truth about inmate casey. What kind of therapist tells someone to throw her disturbed, out of control daughter with her grandbaby out of the house. That was such a dangerous suggestion it borders on insane.

As with much of this case, we don't have many details of this "therapist" and the advice given. We don't know if this was a licensed professional or a dear friend in whom CA valued their opinion or a co-worker at Gentiva or maybe advice from a minister. "Therapist" might have been her term for whoever this person was. And, their advice was only as good as the amount and accuracy of the information that they received from CA.
Also, there may never have been a "therapist" at all. As with alot in this case, I'm afraid we will never know these details. Sadly, my opinion stays the same - Caylee was the collateral damage that resulted in the war between the 2 CMA's (mother and daughter). Poor Caylee was born into a family with a recipe for disaster-mental issues, co-dependancy, and secrecy. I pray Caylee's passing was swift and without pain or knowledge of what was happening.
 
At that point, I would not have cared. I would not have bought the LIE either, so that is where CA & I are totally different. I would have relied on my instincts and her past behaviors instead of trying to get a pathological liar to tell me the truth. She would have heard MY truth.......


I do understand why you feel that way, but I feel differently because it's as if this scenario were happening:

Someone is holding a gun to my head and threatening to shoot, I would never in a million years yell and give the person an earful.

Casey taking Caylee away and not talking was like a gun to Cindy's head.

I hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from. We'll agree to disagree.
 
Bolded by me.
Do you feel this way about women who don't work as well?
Personally, I would be in heaven if I was the only one working and my husband stayed home. I hate housework, and would be thrilled to have it ALL be his job.
Lanie

It might be different if they were not head over heals in debt and about to lose their home. According to CA in court, GA had multiple accounts he was being sued over. CA had already had to take her retirement out to pay off his and KC's debts. They had filed bankruptcy once and lost their home once over his debts, so would you agree to him staying home and you working? I wouldn't, but then again, I would not have put up with either one of their lazy azzes.
 
That first recorded conversation between KC and CA shocked me. They are only concerned about one issue - who bears the fault for KC being in jail. "It's not my fault." "Then who's fault is it? It's not my fault." "You didn't tell the truth, Sweetheart."

I ask everyone here to stand in CA's shoes for 2 seconds. Would you be calling KC "Sweeheart" after you just learned that she has been lying about work for 2 years AND lost your grandchild last month but said not a word AND the car just cost you $500 to get it out of the tow yard and smelled like a rotting corpse? "Sweetheart" would not be my choice of words.

Yes, This has bothered me also, As Casey is speaking to her Mother in such a beligerent way & her mother calls her "Sweetheart", notice how mad Casey gets & says I don't want to talk to you. And what do you make of the sentence, in the jail visit, when Cindy says " we forgive you for anything you have done or said" to which Casey replies, "I haven't said anything, don't worry":waitasec: Don't worry about what??
 
Bolded by me.
Do you feel this way about women who don't work as well?
Personally, I would be in heaven if I was the only one working and my husband stayed home. I hate housework, and would be thrilled to have it ALL be his job.
Lanie
I don't think George's not working was by choice. Wasn't he on disability? Maybe he was milking it...don't know. But, I'd be a might ticked if my stay at home husband was getting us into deep trouble in whatever schemes he was involved with.
 
Bolded by me.
Do you feel this way about women who don't work as well?
Personally, I would be in heaven if I was the only one working and my husband stayed home. I hate housework, and would be thrilled to have it ALL be his job.
Lanie

No, it's not just that george didn't work by a family choice that he stay at home and raise the children, his unemployment was a burden to his family.

He didn't work and at the same time ran up credit cards by gambling and lying to cindy about it. He taught his daughter to do the same things he did, take advantage of mom and run up her credit cards.
 
Yes, This has bothered me also, As Casey is speaking to her Mother in such a beligerent way & her mother calls her "Sweetheart", notice how mad Casey gets & says I don't want to talk to you. And what do you make of the sentence, in the jail visit, when Cindy says " we forgive you for anything you have done or said" to which Casey replies, "I haven't said anything, don't worry":waitasec: Don't worry about what??

bolded by me

I automatically assumed that was about the "family secrets", but looking back, it may have been a lot more to do with Caylee's death than secrets. It does make me wonder.
 
The bottom line is, while the Anthony family might be lousy people and lousy parents, ONLY Casey killed Caylee.

George and Cindy are also products of THEIR genes and environment. They never would have intentionally harmed Caylee. I don't believe their intentions toward Caylee were malicious...ever.

I believe they would have given their very lives to save Caylee.

Casey and Casey alone planned and carried out her daughter's murder. IMO, she is in the same league as Duncan and Couey (Who REALLY grew up in less than ideal families but nobody is blaming their families for their evilness.)
 
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