*DEVELOPING*CO Shooting at Movie Theater #1

[21merc7]

So, is it entirely possible that we'll just never know anything?

Nah. Short version:

There will be info, just maybe not a televised trial. That will be up to whatever Judge. Should be a change of venue, or at least jurors shipped in from another area. A trial would not happen for at least a year, just some Motions hearings.

They may offer Holmes a plea if he talks. (Assuming he has not already, or in a few weeks when tired of being alone.) If that happens, we will get some written info. However, I doubt an offer would happen. Too many gone. I'm not even sure the family members that are survivors would agree. Something this big will most likely go to trial. There should be more than plenty enough evidence for conviction. So scratch plea, move next to "bench trial."

Bench trial would just be Holmes accepting responsibility (ie. admitting he did it) and allowing the Judge to decide his sentence. No jury involved, which would be helpful to any unfortunate souls that would be called for jury duty.

Then there is an Alford Plea, but I don't think that is even necessary to discuss, but he would still get sentenced by the Judge and no jury.

 

[matou]

So did he purchase the body armour at separate times? Would purchasing a full set of body armour have the purchaser flagged somehow? Did he have anyone visit his apartment and did he tell anyone of his purchases at all? Did he belong to a gun club or was this his one and only time shooting weapons?

 

[twinkiesmom]

Actually in the sciences, most good universities give stipends to the PhD students and waive tuition. Thus is due to grant funding, the NIH, HHMI and the NSF grants pay overhead on grants to cover the cost of PostDocs and grad students, which includes tuition to the university. So, if the program is in a university that is well stocked with grant funded faculty, the student is almost absolutely not paying tuition. It is VERY different outside of the sciences. University if Colorado is well funded and respected, so there was almost no chance that he was paying anything, and he probably was getting around 20k a year in stipend to go there.

PS, you all think this is so inviting that you want to try it? Well, they work like slave labor for 20k for around five to six years, then get a 2-5 year job as a Post Doc for a whopping 30-40k a year and still, as an academic researcher they are lucky to hit six figures in 10 years at the age of fifty. Sound good? Compare this to a 2 year MBA, make 6 figures in a couple of years. Or to an MD or JD, less time in school for them and much larger salaries with no Post Doc years. Everyone I know that goes through it doesn't do it for the money, as we all know it isn't worth it on that end.

You are stating the situation in academia...He could make a 6-figure salary in the pharmaceutical industry, either with or without the PhD. Job market is tough for new grads now, but an internship could lead to a permanent position....and contract research organizations aren't as picky about prior work experience.

 

[duchessofdork]

With his knowledge of neuroscience, has it occurred to anyone he could be faking it? Nobody so far described him acting out of it prior to all this happening. If he was thinking he was in a movie, how would he manage to pull something like this off?

That's a great point.


But how does this:

Jail guards “blacked out his windows with duct tape so no one could see him,” said Danilov. “He was cuffed in the back and had leg shackles. Six officers were walking him.”

Work if he's on suicide watch, which the article also reports.

Oh, dude.... inmates are the sources. I'm worried they're making up crap for money.

 

[jjenny]

You are stating the situation in academia...He could make a 6-figure salary in the pharmaceutical industry, either with or without the PhD. Job market is tough for new grads now, but an internship could lead to a permanent position....and contract research organizations aren't as picky about prior work experience.

From what was reported, he couldn't find a job after his B.S. It's not easy to find a job in a pharmaceutical industry.

 

[jjenny]

I knew that was coming. Guess he gets to talk with a few Court Appointed Forensic Psychologists now. He would have anyway, but I knew the fears of "insanity defense" would come fast.

So here is a brief explanation of the "insanity" rule:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/insane/insanity.html

What other choice does someone have when they are caught "red-handed?" Can't argue they didn't do it, can they?

 

[wfgodot]

Okay, we've worked our corners. Let's steer clear of the conspiratorial stuff on this thread. (A political forum thread on that subject would be another matter.)

 

[21merc7]

What other choice does someone have when they are caught "red-handed?" Can't argue they didn't do it, can they?

Nope. He can argue he was not aware of it ,or not in control of it, but I don't think it will work in this case. He had to be aware for all of that planning.

"red-handed" :floorlaugh: Pun on hair and clothes.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

Actually in the sciences, most good universities give stipends to the PhD students and waive tuition. Thus is due to grant funding, the NIH, HHMI and the NSF grants pay overhead on grants to cover the cost of PostDocs and grad students, which includes tuition to the university. So, if the program is in a university that is well stocked with grant funded faculty, the student is almost absolutely not paying tuition. It is VERY different outside of the sciences. University if Colorado is well funded and respected, so there was almost no chance that he was paying anything, and he probably was getting around 20k a year in stipend to go there.

PS, you all think this is so inviting that you want to try it? Well, they work like slave labor for 20k for around five to six years, then get a 2-5 year job as a Post Doc for a whopping 30-40k a year and still, as an academic researcher they are lucky to hit six figures in 10 years at the age of fifty. Sound good? Compare this to a 2 year MBA, make 6 figures in a couple of years. Or to an MD or JD, less time in school for them and much larger salaries with no Post Doc years. Everyone I know that goes through it doesn't do it for the money, as we all know it isn't worth it on that end.

Are we still on this? lol

I said it earlier, but I will say it again. Everything Elmomom said above is true. I'm getting my Ph.D. in Psych and I pay no tuition and get a small stipend. So, yes, if you are a doctoral student in the sciences and attend a university that does a lot of research, you most likely get your tuition paid for by your advisor. When they write grants, they budget in extra money for graduate students. This is normal, especially at research 1 schools (the highest level of research). I'm not sure what level his school was at, but I am willing to bet he was paid for.

But, anyway, my guess is he may have used student loans to pay for all the equipment he bought. Even though we get a salary, it's not a ton of money and so many students also take out additional loans. For example, I could take out almost $5000 a semester if I wanted to. This would have covered the cost of his equipment.

 

[Nova]

OK, I thought that was the way things go with a Masters and to be admitted into a PhD program one has to have an advisor with a main idea for what the direction of individual study will be.

That may be true in some cases, but the trend in the U.S. over the past 20 years has been to do away with the "Masters" step and admit students directly into Ph.D. programs any time after they get their Bachelors degree.

There are "terminal" Masters degrees in some areas (mine is in playwriting); they are "practical" degrees. And there are Masters programs in many areas designed for school teachers, who have to get a Masters eventually to retain their certification.

But neither of the above is intended to lead to a Ph.D. (though, of course, one may choose to pursue a Ph.D. at a later time). Where I went to school, a Masters degree wasn't required to enter the Ph.D. program, but if you had one, it did count as one year's worth of classes toward a doctorate.

 

[BigCat]

I think the hair change is important. We often see mass murderers change their hair as part of the preparation ritual for their crime.

The greatest fictional portrayal of the loner/assassin/mass murderer type is the movie, Taxi Driver. Robert De Niro's character is rejected by a female he's attracted to. Afterwards, he goes to the movie theatre where he receives some kind of signal to kill.

ilosophy-on-movie-going.html?zx=7e1d625ff75a4ca5

He shaves his hair in a mohawk as part the preparation for his mission.

http://www.flavorwire.com/291877/10-fictional-characters-people-need-to-stop-idolizing

It's amazing that James Holmes, Jared Loughner, and Seung-Hui Cho have probably never seen Taxi Driver, yet they all altered their hair before they went on a rampage (though John Hinckley, infamously, did see it). I believe that suggests something deep within the male psyche: ancient warriors shaved their heads and painted their bodies to steel themselves for battle.

Taxi Driver ends with a sequence in which the girl who rejected De Niro's character now finds him attractive. . . after he has killed. It's probably a dream sequence, though that isn't made explicit, showing the audience how his twisted mind works. Perhaps Holmes just killed all those people because he believed it would make himself more attractive to women.

"Will you visit me in prison?"


JMO

 

[elmomom]

You are stating the situation in academia...He could make a 6-figure salary in the pharmaceutical industry, either with or without the PhD. Job market is tough for new grads now, but an internship could lead to a permanent position....and contract research organizations aren't as picky about prior work experience.

20 years in pharma.... Published... Successful. I'm not making six figures. Not close. I would be with a PhD, but not much more than 120. Management, yes. Researchers, no. Salespeople? Yes. Lab associates? No. Pharma is a very screwed up world, the smarter and more dedicated to science you are, the lower on the pay scale you are. Scientists are one step up from the custodial workers, lol.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

That may be true in some cases, but the trend in the U.S. over the past 20 years has been to do away with the "Masters" step and admit students directly into Ph.D. programs any time after they get their Bachelors degree.

There are "terminal" Masters degrees in some areas (mine is in playwriting); they are "practical" degrees. And there are Masters programs in many areas designed for school teachers, who have to get a Masters eventually to retain their certification.

But neither of the above is intended to lead to a Ph.D. (though, of course, one may choose to pursue a Ph.D. at a later time). Where I went to school, a Masters degree wasn't required to enter the Ph.D. program, but if you had one, it did count as one year's worth of classes toward a doctorate.

In my doctoral program in psychology, you are required to earn a Master's degree. It's just a part of the program. You get your Master's and then move onto your dissertation, but you don't have to re-apply, you are already in the program. The end goal is your Ph.D.. Now some people may obtain a Master's prior to deciding to get into a Ph.D. program, so as long as the requirements they fulfilled to get their Master's elsewhere match the requirements of the Ph.D. program, they can skip that part and go straight to working on their dissertation. Hope that helps.

 

[matou]

He looks very stoned in the photo of him with the red hair in the adultfinder account. JMO

 

[jjenny]

Are we still on this? lol

I said it earlier, but I will say it again. Everything Elmomom said above is true. I'm getting my Ph.D. in Psych and I pay no tuition and get a small stipend. So, yes, if you are a doctoral student in the sciences and attend a university that does a lot of research, you most likely get your tuition paid for by your advisor. When they write grants, they budget in extra money for graduate students. This is normal, especially at research 1 schools (the highest level of research). I'm not sure what level his school was at, but I am willing to bet he was paid for.

But, anyway, my guess is he may have used student loans to pay for all the equipment he bought. Even though we get a salary, it's not a ton of money and so many students also take out additional loans. For example, I could take out almost $5000 a semester if I wanted to. This would have covered the cost of his equipment.

Since we are not sure what his motivation are at this point, his inability to find a job I suppose could have played a role. If he expected to get a good paying job after a B.S. and that didn't happen, it could go to motivation. From what I understand, some mass murderers are the type of people who don't let go of all "injustices" and eventually want to pay the world back for these "injustices."

 

[wfgodot]

It's amazing that James Holmes, Jared Loughner, and Seung-Hui Cho have probably never seen Taxi Driver, yet they all altered their hair before they went on a rampage
JMO

snip-snip

Why do you think the "hair-do trio" probably never saw Taxi Driver? It was the sui generis violence film of its era and has been referenced thousands of time since in pop cult think-pieces about the subject.

Small point. Good post.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Moo is there's gotta be something he did to his face.. towel covering for no inmates to see.. his window blacked out with tape so no inmates could see.. the chief refusing to release his mug shot..

I want to hear from the witness who was sitting next to him.. anyone recall the witness name that stated that he was sitting next to him until he got the phonecall and then went to the exit door to supposedly take the phonecall.. which we know he then went to his car donned his armor and then re entered through that sameexit door..

I want to hear from this witness about what his appearance was when sitting next to him.. he obviously had the dyed red hair.. but did he have his face painted as well like the joker? ..we know many were dressed in costumes so his joker make up would not have been alarming...

I just find it difficult to believe that he went to the car and then did the joker or whatever make up and that is why id like to hear from the witness who was sitting beside him as to what his appearance was prior to leaving out the exit door to take the call..

All in all IMO the reasons aforementioned really lend credence to his face definitely being hidden for a specific reason.. i understand the need to hold so much of the investigation out of the public's knowledge but I don't get the reason to hide this particular info that will definitely eventually be known no matter how hard they try to keep it under wraps..

 

[HastingsChi]

"Will you visit me in prison?"

Snipped by me

Given his well documented, careful planning of this massacre, I'd suggest that he wanted the adult profile found and likely included the prison line to spur the interest of those dummies who always flock to these high profile psychopaths to "fall in love" because "we don't understand him" and swear that "he's the bees knees"...



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

 

[Nova]

Well I guess people have different personal experiences. A lot of programs waive tuition, or advisor pays tuition.

Jenny, I've since edited my post after reading the rest of the discussion.

My experience is in the arts, which don't attract huge research grants from private corporations. From your posts, I now see how the sciences could be very different.

So, to quote Emily Latella, "Never mind."

 

[HastingsChi]

He looks very stoned in the photo of him with the red hair in the adultfinder account. JMO

I wondered if that was intentional given the limited number of photos of him online and knowing that these photos would be found.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2