Did Caylee Give Hints of Secrets?

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Respectfully snipped MY BOLD

You raise some interesting points, logicalgirl. I have always wondered how Cindy, as a nurse, could NOT know that her only daughter was well along with her pregnancy. I understand denial, but that''s just too far out for me to accept. So your theory makes quite a bit of sense to me. If indeed Cindy and KC were in cahoots about her "job" because Cindy suspected that KC was either unable or unwilling to hold down a real one, and Cindy made her "deal with the devil" in order to keep an eye both on her precious grandchild and her wayward daughter, it makes perfect sense that as Caylee became more and more verbal and mentioned things she shouldn't, or failed to acknowledge names she should, e.g., "Zanny," that Cindy would feel angry and betrayed that KC wasn't living up to her end of the deal. She would have been within her rights to threaten to withhold further support, cars, housing, etc., and say she and George would seek custody of Caylee. KC knew that Caylee was her bargaining chip; if she lost custody, she also lost a whole lot more. And for a young girl who disliked working but liked all the other perks associated with being employed, that could definitely be the motivation for murder.

Thank you for that akashana. I know we've tossed Cindy's behavior around and around and never made any "sense" to it - at least to me.

I also now believe the one thing Cindy never on this earth imagined is ICA would hurt Caylee. She knew she lied, cheated, stole, etc., etc., but hurt her own child? Did not see it.

Now I believe she is wracked with guilt. If she had been more patient, more understanding - blah blah blah - precious Caylee would still be alive. One day she may truly hate her daughter for what she's done, but she's so used to shouldering the responsibility in this family, she sees the fault as hers. I hope as the trial goes on, she will see the monster ICA for what she truly is, and at the same time also realize she, Cindy, is not as powerful as she believes she is.
 
I am thinking that if she had spent any time in a trunk in Florida, she would not have survived. Either that, or would have suffered medically. I know a lot of people that since she was kept in the trunk deceased think that she may have been kept in the trunk alive. JMO but I just think that is not plausible.

You are so right, Tuffy. I'm sure those that persist in this thinking have spent very little or no time in the Deep South in summertime. Being stashed in a trunk for but the briefest minutes would not be a survivable event. Even at night, temperatures often remain well into the 80s, and a stuffy, airless trunk is incompatible with life. At the very least, Caylee would have emerged a very sick little tot, probably brain damaged.

So true. I can't jump into my car after it's been closed up in the sun for hours. I have to let the heat out before I can get in. I can't imagine anyone being in a car or stuffed into a trunk in the mid-summer heat. In fact, children have died because their parents left them inside closed up cars during the day. On a hot Southern day, I think they said a child would die within about 20 minutes. There's no way the trunk was Caylee's daytime babysitter. I doubt she would have survived at night, or she would have been brain-damaged or even a complete vegetable.

I do wish someone would come forward and say where Caylee was when Casey was "at work". I'm sure she wasn't in the car alone, unless mommy left the A/C running, but she would have probably died of carbon monoxide poisoning being left in a running car. No. I'd say not in the car.
 
my youngest daughter went thru a babbling phase when she just turned two. but two and a half, almost 3 years old, boom! overnight( so it seemed) shed really turn on the vocals...sentences, responses to basic questions, anyhow...i may be off, but i could see caylee totally busting her mom somehow( mommy gave me medicine today, we slept in (flavor of the moments) bed last night,mommy put me in the trunk , ect)

i do believe there is a slight possiblity that indeed caylee somehow snitched off on ICA somehow.not on purpose to get her mommy in trouble, but gma ca could have asked ?s and pieced clues together..another thread someone mention the duct tape bound around her face..i could see that spitefull...( censored) taping her mouth shut( like tell on me, you brat?!?! ) again the last paragraph is STRICTLY my outtake/opinion...not necessarily right,or correct, but it is mine..
 
Not to upset anyone but I know from personal experience a child can relay what they need to say before the age of 2. At 19 months my daughter was speaking complete sentences. She was my firstborn but for me I believe the differnce came from reading the "Baby whisperer'" I talked to her constantly as well as signing. I was blown away with the fact she could communicate clearly with my husband and I. When DD was 20 months she was bit at daycare, second bite but as a nurse I freaked being it was in the soft tissue above the eye as well as below. As always an iccident report is filled out to help the parent understand. Basically it said she and another boy were squabbling over a toy and he bit her while standing. At home I asked DD what happened she told me the name of the child that did it as well as "mommy I was squeaming nobody helped me, he was sitting on me" Her statement completey made the incident report fraudulent. Least to say I spoke with administration the next day, they fessed up that no teachers were present and being the child was an inch taller then my daughter just not physically possible. At that age anybody was able to understand her and she potty trained herself at 21 months, she hated being wet and would come to me stating she was yucky in her bum LOL To all that expect to have children, read this book it blew me away when I started to get responses from my babies, my experience of having babies were sweetened because I learned how to communicate with them.
DD could express herself easily from early on but DS was non-verbal until he was shortly older then 2 but he was an avid signer, nothing short of amazing :)

It is also well known if you babble to your baby then they to will babble but if you speak to them they will in return speak back.
I believe Caylee was verbal, two examples of this from her videos is the breakfast (warped) taping as well as the one in the bedroom, she was saying cheese for the camera I imagine mommidearist said that a lot (you can see her in the mirror in one of the videos) also the taping of Caylee singing you are my sunshine she says "Nan's sunshine...please don't take Nan's sunshine away :( If you watch the videos of Caylee, you can undoubtly see when she interacted with Casey she's eager for attention and Casey seems far to aggressive with Caylee. Casey is so selfish (Moo)
 
I forgot to add that the videos and stills with George and Cindy shows a different child...a happy one! I have no doubt whatsoever that G&C are devastated to think their selfish daughter took Caylee away, but like Casey stated herself "I'm a spiteful *****"
 
I forgot to add that the videos and stills with George and Cindy shows a different child...a happy one! I have no doubt whatsoever that G&C are devastated to think their selfish daughter took Caylee away, but like Casey stated herself "I'm a spiteful *****"

Well we know they don't think that. Cindy thinks Caylee is still alive.
 
Yes Cindy did state that but I see it in a different light. MOO is that Cindy is baiting case for the truth. Casey wants the center of attention so now with her mom's statement, she's peeved Caylee is still #1!
Gosh I wish the trial comes faster. The last 2 years have gone by so painfully slow.
 
There's not a doubt in my mind that Caylee was communicative enough to have sent George and Cindy many signals to be suspicious of Casey. If she were unable or unwilling to communicate she would not have been able to sing her "Sunshine" song. And the fact that she could also demonstrates that at least one of the Anthonys did spend time with her on a very loving and personal level. I don't think we have to compare her with what any other gifted, normal or slower child was able to share with verbal skills because we have seen her on the video with her great grandfather at the nursing home ~ asking (of her own accord) about his well being. (I can't remember her exact words but I think she asked him if he was tired or sleepy). She was able to express herself in a very appropriate and thoughtful manner.

And that is why this particular thread seems so very depressing and upsetting to me. It makes me realize exactly how cognitive Caylee was about her surroundings ~ and that makes my heart shudder thinking that at some point she must have understood what was happening to her when she was murdered.

I do think the fight that the neighbors reported hearing was sparked by something Caylee was able to share with Cindy. We know SP and Cindy had talked about Casey stealing from the great grandparents' long before. SP had said she didn't even want any calls from Casey about it. The way the interview with SP reads makes it sound like this was already a dead issue. It seems probable to me that Caylee said something to Cindy that laid the last straw on the camel's back. And this is what Cindy confronted Casey about on that night. Caylee probably hinted at secrets many times before but I think, on this particular day when Cindy and Caylee spent so much time together, that Caylee finally said something so appalling that Cindy couldn't ignore it anymore.

But if anyone thinks Caylee was not cognitive of her surroundings, sensitive and communicative ~ just watch that video of her interaction with her great grandfather again. And even now she is still communicating with her bare bones and duct tape stuck all over her face. I know I am not the only one who cries at her telling of her tale.
 
By three years old, my daughter was able to clearly tell my mom that I had been drinking and driving (I was drinking a Pepsi, but kiddo didn't know the difference)...Kids are funny about how they spot things and report behaviors they perceive as "bad".
 
As promised, here is the video I took of my niece 2 year old today. She is right on target for age appropriate play/speech. Once more, she will be 3 in December.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb5yJctB1Kg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb5yJctB1Kg[/ame]

"Whoa! I got many points!"
"Shut up!" Move. Mooooooove!"
"1,2,3,10,8... teen,7!"
"...my pocketbook"
"No!"
"I throw it again!"
"Be nice"
"Yay"
"Get a lot of points. I got a lot of points. I got a lot of poi... let me saw"
"Go. Go Mase!"
"I have to pack. Mhmm, I have to pack."
"I don't want more lipstick."
"Leave it alone."
"I wanna go shopping."
"Go down."
"I go eat some... tomorrow."
"Tomorrow."
"Went Burger King?"
"Mine!""
"I get a burger at Burger King."
"My toes."
"I can't..."
"Mommy buyed them."
"I have to try and get more."
"I did it."
"I got it. Mhmm."
"Let me buy more, okay?"
"I did, got some more on it."
"There you go."
"I just buy some more, mhmm."
"I buy some more, k?"
 
Yes I think she could have spilled little goings on, in her little sweet way as a child of almost 3 is capable of, especially if Cindy was "grilling" her, in her sweet litle way......MOO

do not represent websleuths in any way other than being a registerd member of the site. i do not speak for websleuths, nor claim to be more than a poster who blogs and posts on sites, including this one! any prior misunderstanding is - this is my thoughts and opinions only - what i say or write !
 
If ICA is to be believed in her texts to TL (I believe)-she says that Caylee was going around the Anthony house saying "I'm a boss" which is something I assume she picked up from hanging around with some of ICA's circle of friends. So, I can see that Caylee was very observant and probably picked up little sayings or was even taught little sayings that her friends thought were cute.
Poor little Caylee was probably like a little sponge-soaking up any attention shown her. I'll betcha any amount of money Caylee innocently dropped a bomb on ICA on that car ride. Heck-she may have developed quite a shocking little vocabulary from that crowd and the music they were into.
Here's a link to the song "I'm a Boss"-I can't post them here!:innocent:
http://www.urbanlyrics.com/lyrics/younglife/imaboss.html
 
If ICA is to be believed in her texts to TL (I believe)-she says that Caylee was going around the Anthony house saying "I'm a boss" which is something I assume she picked up from hanging around with some of ICA's circle of friends. So, I can see that Caylee was very observant and probably picked up little sayings or was even taught little sayings that her friends thought were cute.
Poor little Caylee was probably like a little sponge-soaking up any attention shown her. I'll betcha any amount of money Caylee innocently dropped a bomb on ICA on that car ride. Heck-she may have developed quite a shocking little vocabulary from that crowd and the music they were into.
Here's a link to the song "I'm a Boss"-I can't post them here!:innocent:
http://www.urbanlyrics.com/lyrics/younglife/imaboss.html

BBM - IIRC ToNE taught Caylee to say that the day they hung out at the pool. So yah, I would imagine Caylee was giving up ICA's secrets - that's why the duct tape was very symbolic IMO and done with so much overkill.

If you think about it - as little as Caylee was, one piece across that little mouth and nose should have sufficed, especially if she were drugged or had her hands taped. (I'm sorry to be so graphic) ICA never seemed to put much energy into anything except her boy-toys, but for Caylee's demise she went all out - I have always thought this was a huge message to CA - "I'll show you to ask that child what I do!"
 
As promised, here is the video I took of my niece 2 year old today. She is right on target for age appropriate play/speech. Once more, she will be 3 in December.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb5yJctB1Kg

"Whoa! I got many points!"
"Shut up!" Move. Mooooooove!"
"1,2,3,10,8... teen,7!"
"...my pocketbook"
"No!"
"I throw it again!"
"Be nice"
"Yay"
"Get a lot of points. I got a lot of points. I got a lot of poi... let me saw"
"Go. Go Mase!"
"I have to pack. Mhmm, I have to pack."
"I don't want more lipstick."
"Leave it alone."
"I wanna go shopping."
"Go down."
"I go eat some... tomorrow."
"Tomorrow."
"Went Burger King?"
"Mine!""
"I get a burger at Burger King."
"My toes."
"I can't..."
"Mommy buyed them."
"I have to try and get more."
"I did it."
"I got it. Mhmm."
"Let me buy more, okay?"
"I did, got some more on it."
"There you go."
"I just buy some more, mhmm."
"I buy some more, k?"

I don't think Caylee was anywhere near the stage of communication the little girl in the video was at. Moo
 
Horace, I disagree with you. IMO, she was very capable of saying things that should have raised red flags. MOO
 
IMO, it will never make it to court. It will be a plea or a mistrial due to ineffective use of counsel. MOO. ICA certainly has grounds for that
 
She was 2. No, she didn't have the ability to communicate anything reliable. Anything she said/did could be interpreted any number of ways. Are you guys serious?

Beg to differ on this one Horace. She was almost 3. I have 2 g-daughters at the exact age CAylee was. You can converse with them both. I do agree that they lose track of reality and you can't take their statements as fact (I am thinking of Jr's statement about the men in black in the Haleigh CUmmings case). They are easily led....they are easily manipulated.....BUT...... they can also spontaneously say things that are 100% accurate. When I spend a lot of time around my grandkids (I have them several days a week) I can usually differentiate fact from fiction and when to question their statements. Caylee did not seem quite as communicative as my gkids, but we also know not a lot was being put into Caylee by her MOTY.......

So respectfully, yes, I'm serious, and I do think CAylee could have been saying things that raised some eyebrows.
 
Or if not saying, doing inappropriate things. I babysat for a three year old once that did some disturbing things a three year old should not be doing. I had the feeling she had been exposed to her mother's sex life some kind of way. I told her mother about it, but I'm not sure she ever really did anything about it. Anyway, I think it was combination of talking and doing things she shouldn't be doing that made Cindy so mad. If Caylee was in bed with Casey and other men, there's no telling what inappropriate things she saw and heard.
 
It's hard for me to understand why people can't grasp the concept that a two year old little girl, nearly three would be speaking and showing their personality. At this age, they are repeating what they hear/see, pushing for more independence and very outspoken.

Respectfully snipped by me.

ITA. I'm really surprised to see people comparing children at Caylee's age to animals in terms of communication. No offense intended at all, just saying that is inaccurate. I worked in developmental psychology before having kids, and even working with severely communication-challenged autistic preschoolers who were right around 3, most of them could certainly express themselves better than a dog. If Caylee could understand how to get her own breakfast and reliably do so, clearly she has some level of intelligence & verbal understanding, whether it's average or not.

My daughter is 3, and since she was a baby we've been in a moms' group with a bunch of kids her age. DD is the oldest, and the youngest is about 2.5. A friend with an 18 month old joins us sometimes as well. The children have varying levels of speech ability. One of the boys is pretty behind in communication, and yet he can still say "Joey hit me" and "I don't WANT to share" and stuff like that. The 18 month old might come to us crying, and if we say "what's wrong?" she can point to her head and point to a table she banged her head on and say "OUCH" and whine. If one of the other children is a bit rough with her, she will start whining a lot and if we say "what happened?" she will point to the child who was rough with her, say the child's name (or her version of it), and say "OUCH." Huge verbal boosts happen between 18 months and 3.

IMO if Caylee was no more intelligible than a dog (or any animal that can "communicate" but not really) at nearly 3 years old - the age at which many kids are starting preschool, learning ABCs and numbers, etc - the pediatrician (assuming she ever saw one? I hope so considering CA's nurse background!) would have noticed warning signs by 18 months to 2 years.

DD often repeats things I wish she wouldn't. 3 examples from this summer, at 2.5 years old - disclaimer, we use normal body part names for private parts around here, which I know not everyone likes to do with small kids:
1) At my in-laws' house - me: "oh shoot" DD: "no mama, not oh shoot." me: "what, honey? I don't understand." DD: "not oh SHOOT, mama, daddy says oh S**T."
2) At a dinner with my parents and my in-laws shortly after announcing pregnancy #2: "mama, I comed out from your v...." My mom's response? "Did she just say she came from China?" No mom, she sure didn't.
3) When my parents visited for the holidays, DD was pretending that she was a dog and her little brother was a puppy. My dad said, "oh, does he have a tail?" DD looked at him quizzically and said, "No, he has a p...." ON VIDEO. A video I wanted to send to my grandmother. Needless to say, we cut the video there and tried again.

Sorry to ramble on and on. :innocent: I am such a nerd about this kind of thing. Basically - even if Caylee was significantly behind verbally, she would have been able to convey enough information to get KC in trouble. I do think CA could have been in denial about it, considering the amount of facts she just completely discounts. My daughter will sometimes tell my husband at the end of the day that she had a good day at school (on a non-school day) or that someone gave her a present that she didn't actually get, so it's not like everything out of her mouth is factual information. But she certainly can express herself.

Last thing to add - I was physically/emotionally abused as a child, and I know that when I was in preschool (I started at 2 yrs 10 months), I was very convincingly instructed that I better not tell anyone about it because the police might take me away from my mommy & daddy. Not hard to frighten a little kid out of mentioning certain things, but I remember various occasions where I got in trouble for simply answering someone's question honestly just because I didn't quite understand that what was happening at home was not normal.

OMG sorry to ramble so much abt myself when I'm a total newb here. I've been lurking here since July 2008 so I feel like I know enough of you to let my freak flag fly, I guess. I just wanted to clarify that Caylee could definitely have given up incriminating information in one way or another. She might have said something fishy here or there that you would not expect a small child to say, maybe things that she only could have learned at a no-clothes party or in a room full of 20-somethings drinking booze & smoking pot.

MOO
 

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