Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[bourne]

She has been ridiculed here, on this forum, for months. There was an in depth sleuthing of her education and her fledgling career, calling her inept and possibly even a fraud. Her pictures asnd interviews were put up and discussed, sometimes viciously, line by line. Then she was attacked and again ridiculed when she announced her non-profit for Maxie. Lots of posts about her being a 'rich' mom who didn't care about her son, only about what schools he was accept into. There was even a few recent posts discussing whether she actually snuck in and pushed Max over the balcony railing just to get revenge upon RZ. So YES, imo, there has been a lot of ridiculing.

In the OP I was discussing, it was said something like " Doe she even know anything about lobbyists and legislation? What is her true agenda, is it just for sympathy and donations?' [ I call that ridiculing someone's intentions.]

There's a big difference between criticizing someone's statements and public conduct when they themselves purposefully put themselves out there in the media to accuse a dead woman who has been forever silenced of assault and homicide vs. ridicule.

 

[bourne]

I agree Dina is gearing up for a suit. Perhaps all the publicity has to do with warning or scaring Jonah as far as what is to come. Just a hypothetical, but ....

Are there reasons that Dina actually would not want it to come to trial either? I can see some. I'm also not convinced that Jonah would avoid a trial and just pay her off.

If Jonah did not take part in either Max's or Rebecca's death, he has no reason to avoid trial and pay Dina or anyone off. Previously he might have felt the need to shield his company from any negative publicity, but that's no longer the case. He has already sold his company and is no longer the CEO.

 

[inthedark14]

Mary who began her media campaign, one year before Dina,she seems more focused on blaming people for what happened instead of "keeping an open mind, and allowing things to progress in a natural manner".In interviews Dina has stated support of Rebecca's family in finding out what happened to their "beautiful daughter and sister". Sadly, no matter what is written about her, or what she is judged for, she has a lot of the same questions as many on here who are completely against her. One example is she questions who was in the house the day Maxie fell. She states much of the evidence that was initially there disappeared.

Both these families have one cause, and strength is in numbers. Regardless of what the outcome may be, it in my opinion would be more beneficial if all of us considered this to be one fight, and not two different ones. Whatever happens happens, wipe the slate clean, and start over unified. Dina may uncover the answers the Zs are looking for, and in my opinion she will. Her interviews have brought such a different way of thinking for me about both of these investigations. Both families had to take the word of authorities as to what happened. Evidence to the contrary strangely disappeared. That is very bizarre.

Hi Jessica,

While MZ may have went to the media, immediately after her sister's death because she felt that something awful had happened to her, something far more nefarious than suicide, she NEVER named anyone as a person responsible for RZ's death. I can't find one interview, or one quote where she directly accuses someone of causing the death of her sister. Homicide=death at the hands of another, right?

However, DS has gone on multiple MSM interviews, and stated that RZ was directly responsible for MS' death. She has even indirectly accused her minor sister of not being forth coming with the police. Even though those police flew half way across the country to interview her.

IMO DS has opened herself up for questions regarding her motives and accusations. If MZ had come out and said so-and-so murdered my sister, then of course the Z family would be up for the same scrutiny. But of course, that never happened. There have multiple statements of inconsistency given by DS and previously by her sister.

I also cannot find anything showing where anyone from the Z family has stated that they did not want MS' death reopened as well. Of course they may have not been campaigning for that, seeing as they are focused on finding out what happened to RZ. I believe MZ even stated that she believes that if Max hadn't been hurt, her sister would be alive today. (paraphrasing). So certainly this family (and their lawyer has stated as well) would want BOTH cases open. I'd forgive them a little anger right now as DS has been all over the media stating that their sister killed her son. The timing is odd as well. DS had over a year to make her suspicions public, but she chose not to. Of course the grief process can take a long time, but the Z family was there from the beginning saying something is not right.

I do absolutely agree with you that the two families should stand together and beg the CA authorities to tell them what happened to two beautiful souls that were lost in a matter of days in Coronado. I believe I posted something to that affect when DS started throwing accusations around.

I honestly believe that this won't happen though, there is too much hate being thrown at a dead woman who can't defend herself. Even the doctor DS hired knows that, you can tell by the sources she listed. It seems that if people think that RZ got what she "deserved", either by suicide or murder, it cancels all the discrepancies out.

That's not the case and that isn't what will happen. People will continue to question these cases and use every scrap of available information to try to figure out what happened to MS and RZ.

Always, MOO

 

[freespeech]

It's difficult not to have sympathy for Dina. I can only begin to imagine the anguish she is experiencing at the loss of her beautiful son, Max. I truly believe that his death was the result of a horrendous accident and I don't think she is being well served by those around her that continue to suggest otherwise. But that being said, she needs to see it for herself.

She should ask Jonah for access to the mansion and come in with a forensics team to evaluate all of the available data. It is paramount that they evaluate how the scooter figures into the entire scenario by matching up the paint transfer to and from the banister base, to see what position the scooter would have necessarily been in at the time of contact.

It's good that she is trying to work through her pain constructively, and I wish her much comfort and many happy memories of the time she did have with Max.

I'm bumping forward Elfie's post again.

It is significant and imperative to consider that the scooter was involved in this accident as indicated by the chunks of paint gouged off the banister. Why did the police illustration show Max running and falling over the side where the banister dips? Did they not see the paint scraped off the banister?

I don't know what kind of investigating they actually did in his case to miss those gouges and not consider that they were caused by the scooter. Imo, this is such a crucial point that should constantly be questioned because it was not factored into the the police recreation and scenario.

On that point alone, CPD should have agreed to re-investigate Max's accident. The CPD detectives could not have thoroughly examined the scene or put much analytical thought into their conclusions to come up with their scenario and drawing. This is truly outrageous and a re-investigation should fall on their plate for missing this essential point.

Also, I agree that those counseling Dina are not doing her any favors by pushing the murder agenda. They are making her look greedy to file a wrongful death suite against Jonah. Her advisers stand to gain big $$$'s if they succeed but Dina will not have the truth about what happened to Max.

That is so wrong on many levels. Dina deserves the truth and should extricate herself from greedy advisers who are not serving her needs and are only making only her look bad while raking in the bucks.

I too, feel sorry for Dina as it seems that she will be the next person to be consumed and destroyed by the chain reaction set in motion by Max's tragic demise. I pray that God will open her eyes and brain to see the disaster waiting ahead. Jmoo.

 

[time]

Mary who began her media campaign, one year before Dina,she seems more focused on blaming people for what happened instead of "keeping an open mind, and allowing things to progress in a natural manner".In interviews Dina has stated support of Rebecca's family in finding out what happened to their "beautiful daughter and sister". Sadly, no matter what is written about her, or what she is judged for, she has a lot of the same questions as many on here who are completely against her. One example is she questions who was in the house the day Maxie fell. She states much of the evidence that was initially there disappeared.

Both these families have one cause, and strength is in numbers. Regardless of what the outcome may be, it in my opinion would be more beneficial if all of us considered this to be one fight, and not two different ones. Whatever happens happens, wipe the slate clean, and start over unified. Dina may uncover the answers the Zs are looking for, and in my opinion she will. Her interviews have brought such a different way of thinking for me about both of these investigations. Both families had to take the word of authorities as to what happened. Evidence to the contrary strangely disappeared. That is very bizarre.

Uhmmm... your explanation makes no sense to me. The Zahau's and their attorneys have never pointed the finger toward a specific person. They went to the gruesome extent of having Rebecca exhumed and examined again. That had to be painful for them. There are tons of reasons to believe Rebecca was murdered and the claim of suicide is ridiculous, yet you are claiming that Mary has a closed mind? Geesh.

On top of it, Mary and Bremner have always said Max death should be reinvestigated.

Once, the media blitz about Max started Dina, Hallier, and Melinek came out immediately pointing the finger at Rebecca and, basically, XZ and I don't recall her ever saying Rebecca's death was suspicious or should be reinvestigated. We have examined Dina's expert report in detail and they contain major flaws. Also, many on here with medical experience have examined Max's death, the records, and the claims and those lead to more questions about what Dina and Nina are claiming about Max's condition in the first few days.

 

[Inparadise]

I'm bumping forward Elfie's post again.

It is significant and imperative to consider that the scooter was involved in this accident as indicated by the chunks of paint gouged off the banister. Why did the police illustration show Max running and falling over the side where the banister dips? Did they not see the paint scraped off the banister?

I don't know what kind of investigating they actually did in his case to miss those gouges and not consider that they were caused by the scooter. Imo, this is such a crucial point that should constantly be questioned because it was not factored into the the police recreation and scenario.

On that point alone, CPD should have agreed to re-investigate Max's accident. The CPD detectives could not have thoroughly examined the scene or put much analytical thought into their conclusions to come up with their scenario and drawing. This is truly outrageous and a re-investigation should fall on their plate for missing this essential point.

Also, I agree that those counseling Dina are not doing her any favors by pushing the murder agenda. They are making her look greedy to file a wrongful death suite against Jonah. Her advisers stand to gain big $$$'s if they succeed but Dina will not have the truth about what happened to Max.

That is so wrong on many levels. Dina deserves the truth and should extricate herself from greedy advisers who are not serving her needs and are only making only her look bad while raking in the bucks.

I too, feel sorry for Dina as it seems that she will be the next person to be consumed and destroyed by the chain reaction set in motion by Max's tragic demise. I pray that God will open her eyes and brain to see the disaster waiting ahead. Jmoo.

IMO, Dina has bought into a "Max was Murdered" scenario, or as she refers to it, an "assault scenario and a homicide". She is the one who does not have an open mind about what possibly happened. And I will say this again, Dina should not take Jonah's word for "he was at the gym", because that has not been verified as fact, and it has also not been verified what time the older kids flew out of San Diego airport.

 

[Inparadise]

If Jonah did not take part in either Max's or Rebecca's death, he has no reason to avoid trial and pay Dina or anyone off. Previously he might have felt the need to shield his company from any negative publicity, but that's no longer the case. He has already sold his company and is no longer the CEO.

The Medicis/Valeant deal has not been finalized. Jonah is still the CEO of Medicis. The President/CEO of Valeant was fired a couple of weeks ago, and it has been announced that senior management of Medicis will remain after the deal is finalized in 2013..........

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Hi Jessica,

While MZ may have went to the media, immediately after her sister's death because she felt that something awful had happened to her, something far more nefarious than suicide, she NEVER named anyone as a person responsible for RZ's death. I can't find one interview, or one quote where she directly accuses someone of causing the death of her sister. Homicide=death at the hands of another, right?

However, DS has gone on multiple MSM interviews, and stated that RZ was directly responsible for MS' death. She has even indirectly accused her minor sister of not being forth coming with the police. Even though those police flew half way across the country to interview her.

IMO DS has opened herself up for questions regarding her motives and accusations. If MZ had come out and said so-and-so murdered my sister, then of course the Z family would be up for the same scrutiny. But of course, that never happened. There have multiple statements of inconsistency given by DS and previously by her sister.

I also cannot find anything showing where anyone from the Z family has stated that they did not want MS' death reopened as well. Of course they may have not been campaigning for that, seeing as they are focused on finding out what happened to RZ. I believe MZ even stated that she believes that if Max hadn't been hurt, her sister would be alive today. (paraphrasing). So certainly this family (and their lawyer has stated as well) would want BOTH cases open. I'd forgive them a little anger right now as DS has been all over the media stating that their sister killed her son. The timing is odd as well. DS had over a year to make her suspicions public, but she chose not to. Of course the grief process can take a long time, but the Z family was there from the beginning saying something is not right.

I do absolutely agree with you that the two families should stand together and beg the CA authorities to tell them what happened to two beautiful souls that were lost in a matter of days in Coronado. I believe I posted something to that affect when DS started throwing accusations around.

I honestly believe that this won't happen though, there is too much hate being thrown at a dead woman who can't defend herself. Even the doctor DS hired knows that, you can tell by the sources she listed. It seems that if people think that RZ got what she "deserved", either by suicide or murder, it cancels all the discrepancies out.

That's not the case and that isn't what will happen. People will continue to question these cases and use every scrap of available information to try to figure out what happened to MS and RZ.

Always, MOO

I don't think it is a secret that the Zahau's have implied that AS was involved many times...even it they did not call him by name.

Mary Zahau said the day that Rebecca was found, "I will never believe my sister took her own life". I think she is in denial and wants to blame anyone but Rebecca.

As for "people thinking Rebecca got what she deserved", I don't see that at all. I don't see anyone "hating" on Rebecca. What they are hating on are the accusations that the Romanos or Shacknais were involved in Rebecca's death when that is far from the truth. I have been appalled by some of the things written on sites about these families who are grieving a great loss, and were ALSO traumatized by Rebecca's suicide in the midst of their crisis.

I don't see ANYONE being happy or relieved that Rebecca hung herself instead of facing whatever consequences would come from Max's accident..whether that was a break-up with Jonah or more questioning from CPS and detectives. Rebecca's death did nothing for anyone. IMO, everyone involved wishes she were still alive - that she would have picked up the phone that night and called Mary back, or called Jonah, or a friend, or go down and wake up AS and talk to him.

Suicide does nothing but leave more questions for those left behind. I think what she did that night was tragic. But that was her choice, and it was one that took none of those that loved her into consideration. Suicide is a selfish act. But that is not a reason to hate Rebecca Zahau. Nor is it a reason for the Zahaus and others to blame the Shacknais and Romanos for her death.

 

[time]

I don't think it is a secret that the Zahau's have implied that AS was involved many times...even it they did not call him by name.

Mary Zahau said the day that Rebecca was found, "I will never believe my sister took her own life". I think she is in denial and wants to blame anyone but Rebecca.
<snip>

I'm scratching my head because I don't think the Zahau's probably think Adam murdered Rebecca, but maybe so. I think his behavior was bizarre and he certainly had access and knowledge though - no one can deny that. I also think, rightfully so, that he could know something and it's a lingering question as to why another polygraph was not given. When it comes down to it, the only two who were even partially investigated were Nina and Adam. Nina also refused a polygraph.


BBM - I can d@mn well tell you that if any of my relatives died i n this manner, I would not buy into it being a suicide. No way, no how. I don't think this has anything to do with a family just not accepting their loved one could commit suicide.

I also do not believe suicides are selfish. A person committing suicide does not have that motive. Maybe it seems they are selfish to the people left behind, but people commit suicide because they do not think they can go on, that there is no hope, or no hope of leading a life without agony. Many years ago, my alcoholic uncle committed suicide. No one thought it was selfish. He committed suicide because he had to stop drinking, it was hell with alcohol and hell without. He had no hope for a future. I know that is just one example.

Rebecca was young and healthy and intelligent, she had her whole life ahead of her including having her own children. I do not think she was ready to give that up just because of her current connection to Dina and Jonah. You have to believe she murdered Max and knew she was going to be charged in order to think she was so desperate. We STILL have no evidence Max was murdered or assaulted after two highly paid experts spent months evaluating Max's death.

No one commits suicide in the manner Rebecca was murdered and does so at the snap of a finger, let alone ends up with unexplained blunt force trauma to their head and a possible secondary strangulation mark. Let alone, leaves a message that looks like someone else had to write it. You have to contort that to yet another bizarre assumption - that Rebecca killed herself but tried to frame someone else - my eyeballs are rolling back in my head on that one!

It's just ridiculous to think it was a suicide and easy to see Max's death was an unfortunate accident no matter who was there - my very strong opinion.

 

[inthedark14]

I don't think it is a secret that the Zahau's have implied that AS was involved many times...even it they did not call him by name.

Mary Zahau said the day that Rebecca was found, "I will never believe my sister took her own life". I think she is in denial and wants to blame anyone but Rebecca.

As for "people thinking Rebecca got what she deserved", I don't see that at all. I don't see anyone "hating" on Rebecca. What they are hating on are the accusations that the Romanos or Shacknais were involved in Rebecca's death when that is far from the truth. I have been appalled by some of the things written on sites about these families who are grieving a great loss, and were ALSO traumatized by Rebecca's suicide in the midst of their crisis.

I don't see ANYONE being happy or relieved that Rebecca hung herself instead of facing whatever consequences would come from Max's accident..whether that was a break-up with Jonah or more questioning from CPS and detectives. Rebecca's death did nothing for anyone. IMO, everyone involved wishes she were still alive - that she would have picked up the phone that night and called Mary back, or called Jonah, or a friend, or go down and wake up AS and talk to him.

Suicide does nothing but leave more questions for those left behind. I think what she did that night was tragic. But that was her choice, and it was one that took none of those that loved her into consideration. Suicide is a selfish act. But that is not a reason to hate Rebecca Zahau. Nor is it a reason for the Zahaus and others to blame the Shacknais and Romanos for her death.

I have never seen a quote or MSM article showing that the Z family has accused AS of anything. Please post a link. Since you don't see anyone being relieved or hateful to RZ perhaps you should check Dr. Melnicks sources. That will tell you all you need to know.

DS has repeatedly accused RZ in the MSM. The Z familiy has not named anyone. Period.

I'm curious as to where the Z family has accused any S or R family member. Please provide us with a link to show us they've done so. TIA

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

time, it is not true that Nina refused a polygraph. Nina was going to take one voluntarily, and it was scheduled for the day that Max died and was of course, cancelled, due to that. It was to be rescheduled, but was not done because all the physical evidence pointed to Rebecca and only Rebecca.

inthedark14, I said, "I don't think it is a secret that the Zahau's have implied that AS was involved many times...even it they did not call him by name." I did not say they accused anyone by name, but have implied that AS was involved many times by talking about rope knots being "expert" knots, when in fact, they were simple loops that Rebecca could have easily tied.

I understand the shock of losing a relative to suicide. I too, have lost a relative this way. But to keep denying it when ALL physical evidence says that is what happened is just unhealthy. And I think it was very easy for Rebecca to do what she did. Which was hang herself.

 

[Betty P]

The Medicis/Valeant deal has not been finalized. Jonah is still the CEO of Medicis. The President/CEO of Valeant was fired a couple of weeks ago, and it has been announced that senior management of Medicis will remain after the deal is finalized in 2013..........

Interesting. Valeant is buying out Medicis, but Medicis's management has maneuvered their way into taking charge of Valeant. They sound like some really brutal and powerful players. Interesting. Acquiring and keeping wealth by any means necessary is their game.

Someone recently mentioned in one of the threads here that Dina S should consider filing a wrongful death lawsuit against JS over Max's accident. Why doesn't she just go ahead and do so? IANAL, but the case would be tried in civil court and from what I understand, is easier to win than a criminal conviction.

MOO

 

[inthedark14]

time, it is not true that Nina refused a polygraph. Nina was going to take one voluntarily, and it was scheduled for the day that Max died and was of course, cancelled, due to that. It was to be rescheduled, but was not done because all the physical evidence pointed to Rebecca and only Rebecca.

inthedark14, I said, "I don't think it is a secret that the Zahau's have implied that AS was involved many times...even it they did not call him by name." I did not say they accused anyone by name, but have implied that AS was involved many times by talking about rope knots being "expert" knots, when in fact, they were simple loops that Rebecca could have easily tied.

I understand the shock of losing a relative to suicide. I too, have lost a relative this way. But to keep denying it when ALL physical evidence says that is what happened is just unhealthy. And I think it was very easy for Rebecca to do what she did. Which was hang herself.

Thanks for clarifying CG but I still don't see how the Z family accused anyone. I'm not sure about the loops you are referring to either.

I cant imagine it was easy to tie oneself up. Hop around while bound and gagged, turn off lights and close doors and then leave a single toe print before throwing oneself off a balcony and manage not to break your neck with a nine foot drop. Super easy. Right.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Thanks for clarifying CG but I still don't see how the Z family accused anyone. I'm not sure about the loops you are referring to either.

I cant imagine it was easy to tie oneself up. Hop around while bound and gagged, turn off lights and close doors and then leave a single toe print before throwing oneself off a balcony and manage not to break your neck with a nine foot drop. Super easy. Right.

A girl did it in less than 30 minutes for cbs8.com:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery

 

[Betty P]

A girl did it in less than 30 minutes for cbs8.com:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery

There are a few details missing from that re-enactment:

She's doesn't try to turn off the light in the bedroom and hop out of the crowded bedroom to the balcony in total darkness

She isn't walking (or hopping) with a limp, as RZ's gym trainer and others mentioned her having in the weeks leading up to the incident

She isn't attempting to do everything while in the nude

She doesn't have to close the balcony double doors behind her before turning and attempting to get herself over the railing.

The actual scenario was a bit more complicated, especially when done at night, with no light.

 

[Inparadise]

There are a few details missing from that re-enactment:

She's doesn't try to turn off the light in the bedroom and hop out of the crowded bedroom to the balcony in total darkness

She isn't walking (or hopping) with a limp, as RZ's gym trainer and others mentioned her having in the weeks leading up to the incident

She isn't attempting to do everything while in the nude

She doesn't have to close the balcony double doors behind her before turning and attempting to get herself over the railing.

The actual scenario was a bit more complicated, especially when done at night, with no light.

And, IIRC, she did not have a rope around her neck, nor a t-shirt that was stuffed into her mouth.

 

[time]

time, it is not true that Nina refused a polygraph. Nina was going to take one voluntarily, and it was scheduled for the day that Max died and was of course, cancelled, due to that. It was to be rescheduled, but was not done because all the physical evidence pointed to Rebecca and only Rebecca.

Ok, so Nina cancelled her scheduled polygraph and claims no one called her back. Gore didn't even seem to know the first one was scheduled and cancelled. No matter what, she should have take one because she was placed very near the scene of Rebecca's death and very near the time she died. So, I guess Nina just waited it out and Gore didn't really care.

 

[time]

A girl did it in less than 30 minutes for cbs8.com:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery

I don't see anywhere that ALL of what had to be done was done. If Rebecca killed herself, she would first have to think of it, decide she was going to do it and how. Then she would have to find the materials or go buy them. (or some order of the sort). She has to decide how much rope she will need and cut it to the right lengths, especially from the bed over the balcony. I won't even go into the rest, but I don't see anywhere in the CBS reenactment that says the woman who did it, did the above steps. Also, she had to have seen some version or was told of how the knots were tied. Probably how many sections also and how long they were and they gave her the rope and knife and whatever else she needed.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

There are a few details missing from that re-enactment:

She's doesn't try to turn off the light in the bedroom and hop out of the crowded bedroom to the balcony in total darkness

She isn't walking (or hopping) with a limp, as RZ's gym trainer and others mentioned her having in the weeks leading up to the incident

She isn't attempting to do everything while in the nude

She doesn't have to close the balcony double doors behind her before turning and attempting to get herself over the railing.

The actual scenario was a bit more complicated, especially when done at night, with no light.

Turning off the light would have been no problem for someone as athletic as Rebecca.

She may have had a slight limp, but her trainer said she was in fantastic shape, was athletic, and could have easily done what she did.

Being nude would make no difference at all.

Being dark would have made no difference at all to someone that knew the room.

Whether the doors were open or closed is not certain.

The actual act was even easier for Rebecca because she is the one that planned it.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I don't see anywhere that ALL of what had to be done was done. If Rebecca killed herself, she would first have to think of it, decide she was going to do it and how. Then she would have to find the materials or go buy them. (or some order of the sort). She has to decide how much rope she will need and cut it to the right lengths, especially from the bed over the balcony. I won't even go into the rest, but I don't see anywhere in the CBS reenactment that says the woman who did it, did the above steps. Also, she had to have seen some version or was told of how the knots were tied. Probably how many sections also and how long they were and they gave her the rope and knife and whatever else she needed.

All Rebecca had to do was get some rope from the garage, get 2 knives from the kitchen, and get some black paint and brushes...which she already had. This is pretty simple and just took her a walk to the garage and through the house. Not hard at all.