Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[oceanblueeyes]

Whatever he was head honcho or not, I do not believe he was aware of the spinal cord damage. Cardiac arrest and brain swelling are completely consistent with spinal cord damage, which is what autopsy concluded. There was not a single bone broken in Max's neck which is what one might expect if this was a case of strangulation.

He did not say he thought Max was strangled did he? I thought he said he thought Max had been smothered before he went over the railing. Maybe I need to read what he stated to LE again.

So I guess that is where Dina is getting that he was smothered.

Why would smothering leave broken bones in Max's neck?:waitasec: It could have been done with a pillow.

 

[CDS22]

Only she wasn't going to go to jail, considering the autopsy declared the death to be a tragic accident caused initially by damage to the spinal cord. Not suffocation!

The AR might have shown something different if they'd had the chance to question her again and put her through a lie detector test.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

He did not say he thought Max was strangled did he? I thought he said he thought Max had been smothered before he went over the railing. Maybe I need to read what he stated to LE again.

So I guess that is where Dina is getting that he was smothered.

Why would smothering leave broken bones in Max's neck?:waitasec: It could have been done with a pillow.

He didn't say Max had been smothered before he went over the railing. He didn't mention going over the railing at all.

 

[jjenny]

The AR might have shown something different if they'd had the chance to question her again and put her through a lie detector test.

JMO

How would that alter the cause of death due to spinal contusion and not suffocation? Those are physical findings based on the injuries to the body. A spinal cord contusion would cause brain swelling and cardiac arrest. Which is why I am pretty sure that the doctor didn't know about spinal cord contusion.

 

[MyBelle]

Who knows........I am getting very creeped out now by the head Doctor's belief concerning Max.

If it was just a spur of the moment thing then she could have regretted it afterward I suppose and that resulted in the suicide.

I just read the AG is not going to investigate the cases but I sure wish they had.:banghead:

IMO

Because her family has stated she said she didn't feel any responsibility for Max's death, I think her suicide was to avoid prison rather than out of grief or guilt.

The parents can still request the ME change his ruling from accident to homicide. There doesn't need to be a reopening of the investigation to accomplish that. I did wonder if JS request for a review of the protocol was because he was upset that the ME ruled accident rather than undetermined or homicide.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

Because her family has stated she said she didn't feel any responsibility for Max's death, I think her suicide was to avoid prison rather than out of grief or guilt.

The parents can still request the ME change his ruling from accident to homicide. There doesn't need to be a reopening of the investigation to accomplish that. I did wonder if JS request for a review of the protocol was because he was upset that the ME ruled accident rather than undetermined or homicide.

JMO

I'm starting to think of the word "sociopath" right now.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Exactly. And he suspected suffocation and cops got a search warrant. That's huge.

JMO

OMG! That is unbelievable. I think the doctor's statement is the most shocking of all things that have been revealed. But then posters on the net have also had a lot of unanswered questions about Max' death too.

I just scanned the article. I will have to go back and read it in depth.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

Because her family has stated she said she didn't feel any responsibility for Max's death, I think her suicide was to avoid prison rather than out of grief or guilt.

The parents can still request the ME change his ruling from accident to homicide. There doesn't need to be a reopening of the investigation to accomplish that. I did wonder if JS request for a review of the protocol was because he was upset that the ME ruled accident rather than undetermined or homicide.

JMO

Oh please. Based on what would ME change his ruling? ME did the autopsy and had no problem identifying a cause of death. Suffocation was nowhere to be found.

 

[Brit]

Just curious: If it turns out that RZ did smother MS, why would you find it more likely that she died from homicide rather than suicide? Wouldn't the guilt of killing a child be a driving factor for suicide? Or the fear of being found out and going to prison?

Why would they declare his death as an accident and not a murder, if in the end after all of his tests they still thought he was suffocated? Are you saying that the doctors are risking their careers for this? In cases like this, doctor can be like detectives, they first make their initial hypothesis based on the evidence they first observe, and then they develop the "case" as new tests come into play. I think that this dr would be highly insulted by anyone insinuating that he felt that max was suffocated just to let his death be declared an accident.

What I will find interesting to know is when they figured out it was an accident? Was it before
or after rebecca's death? I think that is the question of the hour. And I would like to thank you CDS for bringing that to my attention!

 

[MyBelle]

He did not say he thought Max was strangled did he? I thought he said he thought Max had been smothered before he went over the railing. Maybe I need to read what he stated to LE again.

So I guess that is where Dina is getting that he was smothered.

Why would smothering leave broken bones in Max's neck?:waitasec: It could have been done with a pillow.

If Max was smothered and then went over the railing, then the scene really was staged with scooter placed over him. I do hope LE reopens the investigation. I really doubt they interviewed the sister who was in the house at the time. RZ rushed her out of town the next day, iirc.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How would that alter the cause of death due to spinal contusion and not suffocation? Those are physical findings based on the injuries to the body. A spinal cord contusion would cause brain swelling and cardiac arrest. Which is why I am pretty sure that the doctor didn't know about spinal cord contusion.

I just find that hard to believe. He seemed to have been on Max' case. Money talks as so many people say on here and I have no doubt the head doctor came in and knew all about Max's injuries including the spinal cord contusion and condition.

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Oh please. Based on what would ME change his ruling? ME did the autopsy and had no problem identifying a cause of death. Suffocation was nowhere to be found.

An ME can change manner of death from accident to something else.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

I just find that hard to believe. He seemed to have been on Max' case. Money talks as so many people say on here and I have no doubt the head doctor came in and knew all about Max's injuries including the spinal cord contusion and condition.

IMO

The spinal cord contusion is what led to Max's death according to the autopsy.
It is completely consistent with causing brain swelling (due to lack of oxygen) and cardiac arrest. The doctor certainly mentioned nothing about spinal cord damage when he based his opinion on visible injuries not being consistent with brain swelling and cardiac arrest.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If Max was smothered and then went over the railing, then the scene really was staged with scooter placed over him. I do hope LE reopens the investigation. I really doubt they interviewed the sister who was in the house at the time. RZ rushed her out of town the next day, iirc.

JMO

BBM

That gives me pause too.

Why the rush. Why not let her sister stay so she would have someone with her that was family knowing Jonah would be away all the time at the hospital or the RM house.

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I just find that hard to believe. He seemed to have been on Max' case. Money talks as so many people say on here and I have no doubt the head doctor came in and knew all about Max's injuries including the spinal cord contusion and condition.

IMO

Absolutely. LE wouldn't have persuaded a Judge to sign a search warrant if the doctor was offering an opinion with no degree of certainty.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

BBM

That gives me pause too.

Why the rush. Why not let her sister stay so she would have someone with her that was family knowing Jonah would be away all the time at the hospital or the RM house.

IMO

Do you know who wanted the sister gone? After all, it's not RN's house, is it?

 

[CDS22]

Why would they declare his death as an accident and not a murder, if in the end after all of his tests they still thought he was suffocated? Are you saying that the doctors are risking their careers for this? In cases like this, doctor can be like detectives, they first make their initial hypothesis based on the evidence they first observe, and then they develop the "case" as new tests come into play. I think that this dr would be highly insulted by anyone insinuating that he felt that max was suffocated just to let his death be declared an accident.

What I will find interesting to know is when they figured out it was an accident? Was it before
or after rebecca's death? I think that is the question of the hour. And I would like to thank you CDS for bringing that to my attention!

It can be really hard to prove smothering in an autopsy. The smaller the child, the harder it is to prove smothering. For example, it's near impossible to prove it in an infant because such a small amount of pressure is needed. MS weighed less than half of RZ's weight. He did have marks on his nose as well as abrasions on his clavicle. That could indicate someone pushing on him enough to smother him.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The spinal cord contusion is what led to Max's death according to the autopsy.
It is completely consistent with causing brain swelling (due to lack of oxygen) and cardiac arrest. If the doctor was asked now, I am pretty sure he would not say Max's condition was due to suffocation. He certainly mentioned nothing about spinal cord damage when he based his opinion on visible injuries not being consistent with brain swelling and cardiac arrest.

Why do you say that? I imagine if asked he would tell exactly what he told LE. He doesnt have to agree with the ME.

Maybe he didn't think the contusion would have been enough to completely shut off his breathing.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

That gives me pause too.

Why the rush. Why not let her sister stay so she would have someone with her that was family knowing Jonah would be away all the time at the hospital or the RM house.

IMO

I'd like to know where attorney Bremner got her "planking" theory. It had to be from the sister or someone in her family. All together, it does give pause.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

If Max was smothered and then went over the railing, then the scene really was staged with scooter placed over him. I do hope LE reopens the investigation. I really doubt they interviewed the sister who was in the house at the time. RZ rushed her out of town the next day, iirc.

JMO

Was the shopping trip a bribe in exchange for silence? Just wondering out loud....