Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[CARIIS]

A handy dandy Airbus Glossary.

http://www.airbus.com/tools/glossary/

While reviewing this one cracked me up.

ALTIMETERAn adjustable aneroid

Well ok then!!!

Report: Signals detected from EgyptAir Flight 804 in Mediterranean



[video=cnn;world/2016/05/26/egyptair-flight-804-signal-detected-report-todd-tsr-tell.cnn]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/26/middleeast/egyptair-airbus-signals-detected/index.html[/video]

On this one when I learned these dont last long my thought was, yeh cause Airbus probably did not think it would take forever to find a downed airliner!!



This struck me as odd. .....two French companies to help find the black boxes, The two countries will share the costs..........

Two BEA investigators were on board the La Place ship as it set sail from Corsica on Thursday.

The Egyptian authorities "will be piloting these underwater searches" with the BEA's help,

France .....it also had dispatched a remote-controlled submarine belonging to its petroleum ministry to aid in the search.


Africa’s largest airline has weathered previous crashes and a national uprising


When tourism to Egypt dried up after the 2011 revolution, the airline successfully courted transfer passengers, ferrying them between Europe and far-flung places in Africa via its Cairo hub to offset the loss of tourism business.

there has been no rush to cancel reservations

have incurred losses of over $1 billion, according to state media reports. Last year, the airline’s CEO was ousted by the government over allegations of mismanagement.

Terminal 3 at Cairo is very modern

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/a320.htm

http://www.travelandleisure.com/blogs/how-to-tell-if-an-international-airline-is-safe

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/tra...ack-boxes-to-start-in-coming-days-frances-bea

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/

...

 

[1&2&3]

Why can something not be developed to make the black boxes float when they hit water? In today's technology, it seems this would be mandatory for these boxes which contain answers to what caused a plane to come down.

 

[CARIIS]

Why can something not be developed to make the black boxes float when they hit water? In today's technology, it seems this would be mandatory for these boxes which contain answers to what caused a plane to come down.

Hi

They would not even have to do that. See post 635. Its real time tracking of flights. The would know exact impact point at (lat/long) the second of impact. Its repulsive that "leaders" all over the world wont take them up on the offer.

Since they fumbled here again - maybe they will really do it, who knows. Its from satelittes - pathetic that has not been done. Is Imerstat all alturistic, nah, it will get them into the next gen marketplace. Who cares?

Like if world leaders said ok no idea how long it takes to do it, but a lot of airplanes the linkups on them already.

MAL 370 is the only one I remember (ever) here this cr(p has gone on. AF 447 24 hours after she disappearred, floating wreckage found. Took em two years to get the recorders , but they found wreckage instantly. SAme with TWA 800

The Air India bomb one wreckage was found floating on ocean surface quickly

This has to be geopoltical feet dragging moo

All Wiki

 

[cuffem]

Made it over the Atalantic ok except a hard landing that did something to the bulkhead and luggage was difficult to remove,plane needed repairs so another one from NY was to be called in for the return flight.
I posted in the Brussels bombing thread as to not o/t this thread.

 

[emirates1957]

Is it possible that someone on the plane hacked the system?

I would have to say categorically no. Plus you would have full CTV footage of staff attending to A/C. Forensic testing on debris should have returned some sort of clue by now. Let's hope for an honest conclusion.

 

[emirates1957]

When the cockpit door is shut, is it sealed shut like a panic room would be? Is the oxygen level the same?

Oxygen level will be the same Jersey Girl.

 

[cuffem]

Why can something not be developed to make the black boxes float when they hit water? In today's technology, it seems this would be mandatory for these boxes which contain answers to what caused a plane to come down.

Perhaps the materials that would allow it to float would not be able to withstand the pressures or survive a crash and/or fire.just a guess.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...signals-reportedly-detected-from-from-aircra/

EgyptAir flight 804: Signals reportedly detected from from aircraft
By Telegraph Reporters
27 MAY 2016 • 7:26AM

Although the signal is different from the black box, which will contain vital clues about the crash, the location transmitter will make it far easier for the recorders to be found.

According to one estimate it has brought the search area down to a 3.1-mile radius.

According to air accident investigators in Egypt a specialist vessel, provided by French company ALSEAMAR, is joining the search.

It will use a system of “intelligent buoys” , connected to underwater listening devices, to locate the black boxes, which are believed to be as much as 3,000 metres below the surface.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

They do some pretty cool stuff! Re the last post:

ALSEAMAR

http://www.alseamar-alcen.com

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Still no passenger manifest?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I'm reading through the Aviation Herald and there have been a couple of smoke incidents in planes lately.

Iberia A332 near Fortaleza on Apr 16th 2016, smoke in cabin


Ukraine International B738 at Lviv on Jan 15th 2016, smell of burning plastics in cabin


British Airways A320 near Venice on Apr 12th 2016, cabin smoke indication


Easyjet A319 near Toulouse on Apr 16th 2016, fumes in cabin


Srilankan A332 at Bangkok on Apr 7th 2016, smoke in cabin


Lufthansa Cityline E195 at Munich on Apr 4th 2016, burning odour in cockpit


Lufthansa Cityline E195 near Munich on Mar 30th 2016, smoke on board


Jetblue E190 near Buffalo on Mar 30th 2016, smokey odour in cockpit


www.avherald.com

just to name a few, so apparently it isn't that unusual, but when you're in the plane and not knowing what's going on, still scary though.

Search term A320 on avherald and here's the results. Just click "next" in the upper left corner for the following page.

http://www.avherald.com/h?search_term=A320&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=49&search.y=10

 

[CARIIS]

I would have to say categorically no. Plus you would have full CTV footage of staff attending to A/C. Forensic testing on debris should have returned some sort of clue by now. Let's hope for an honest conclusion.

******** 2013, Hugo Teso's Hack in The Box talk on aircraft hacking demonstrated a simulated flight takeover using his Android phone --"the complete attack [was] accomplished remotely, without needing physical access to the target aircraft at any time."

********principal security consultant for IOActive Ruben Santamarta talked to press about his August 2014 presentation on SATCOM (Satellite communications) equipment, which "allowed unauthenticated users to hack into the SATCOM equipment when it is accessible through WiFi or In-Flight entertainment networks."

********According to Boeing:

"The architecture and network configuration may allow the exploitation of network security vulnerabilities resulting in intentional or unintentional destruction, disruption, degradation, or exploitation of data, systems, and networks critical to the safety and maintenance of the airplane."

********n May 2009, a government airline security report revealed that security tests identified 763 "high risk" vulnerabilities that could allow hackers access to administrative systems

********2012, researcher Andrei Costin warned in a a detailed talk that the FAA's then-new air traffic control system, the Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast System (ADS-B) set for 2014 deployment, [video]http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/26/tech/web/air-traffic-control-security/index.html[/video].


The same Wi-Fi systems that allow us to surf the Internet in the sky could also make our commercial airliners vulnerable to hackers. In other words, it's possible that hackers could use a laptop or another device to bring down a plane.
Current air traffic control systems work through point- to-point contact, so, for example, between the air traffic controllers on the ground and the cockpit crew in the air or from one plane to another. .... there will be more avenues in which the potential for a cyber-intrusion can occur.
******** Dillingham says one of those avenues could be through the plane's Wi-Fi system which allows passengers to check e-mail or watch video especially on newer aircraft, such as the Airbus A350 or Boeing's Dreamliner. He says those planes have very sophisticated avionics on the same network with the entertainment system.

********WHEN SECURITY RESEARCHER Chris Roberts was removed from a United fight last month after tweeting a joke about hacking the plane’s inflight entertainment system,

On at least 15 different flights, Roberts evidently compromised IFE systems by obtaining physical access through the Seat Electronic Box, or SEB, installed beneath passenger seats. After removing the cover to the SEB by “wiggling and Squeezing the box,” the affidavit says Roberts took a Cat6 ethernet cable with a modified plug on the end and attached it to the box and his laptop
(...) According to Roberts, the substance of his research was shared with aircraft makers Boeing and Airbus, as well as the Federal Aviation Administration, but garnered little attention.

in the warrant request, Roberts was first summoned to discuss his work at the Denver FBI office in February and March; he'd identified alleged vulnerabilities with in-flight entertainment (IFE) systems on Boeing 737-800, 737-900, 757-200, and Airbus A320 aircraft.Roberts told investigators he hacked into in-flight entertainment systems aboard aircraft. He claimed to have done so 15 to 20 times from 2011 to 2014.
He also said, according to the document, that once he had hacked into the systems and then overwrote code, enabling him to issue a "CLB," or climb, command."Chris Roberts furnished the information because he would like the vulnerabilities to be fixed." It's probably a good thing for Boeing that this tempest waited until now to spill out of its teapot.

********Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner passenger jet may have a serious security vulnerability in its onboard computer networks that could allow passengers to access the plane's control systems, according to the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.
oberts told investigators he hacked into in-flight entertainment systems aboard aircraft. He claimed to have done so 15 to 20 times from 2011 to 2014.
He also said, according to the document, that once he had hacked into the systems and then overwrote code, enabling him to issue a "CLB," or climb, command. FAA request to change Boeing 777 security filed on the US Federal Register website in 2013, and another one last year on Boeing's 737 line,

********regulations and current system safety assessment policy and techniques do not address potential security vulnerabilities, which could be caused by unauthorized access to aircraft data buses and servers.
******** As an example, someone who has a laptop in the cabin or maybe even on the ground - there was the potential that they could breach the avionics of the aircraft.
******** FAA administrator Michael Huerta told a Senate commerce committee hearing yesterday that he agrees there is a serious cyber security risk. :
********The new report follows up another GAO study which found the FAA's new NextGen air traffic control system is also at significant risk of being hacked. David Schaper, NPR News.

********someone with just a laptop to: -- Commandeer the aircraft/ Put a virus into flight control computers/ -- Jeopardize the safety of the flight by taking control of computers/ -- Take over the warning systems or even navigation systems"

********* The design must prevent inadvertent and malicious changes to, and all adverse impacts upon, airplane equipment, systems, networks, or other assets required for safe flight and operations.



http://www.npr.org/2015/04/15/39993...i-fi-may-leave-aircraft-vulnerable-to-hacking
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/politics/gao-newer-aircraft-vulnerable-to-hacking/index.html



http://www.zdnet.com/article/a-practical-history-of-plane-hacking-beyond-the-hype-and-hysteria/
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...r-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Gerald+Dillingham+report++hacking+pl ane+
https://www.wired.com/2015/05/possible-passengers-hack-commercial-aircraft/

 

[CARIIS]

and the bolding on that post gosh

Could not understand it much but interesting indeed :

http://conference.hitb.org/hitbsecc... Aircraft Hacking - Practical Aero Series.pdf

 

[Dr. Know?]

I give up.

No new signal from EgyptAir jet since day of crash as search intensifies

No new radio signal has been received from an EgyptAir jet since the day it crashed in the Mediterranean last week, sources close to the investigation said on Friday.

Media reports on Thursday suggested that a new signal had allowed officials to further home in on where the black box recorders might be located.

A radio signal picked up on the day of the crash from the plane's emergency locator transmitter (ELT) allowed officials to determine a broadly defined search zone, but nothing new has since been detected, the sources told Reuters.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-egyptair-airplane-search-idUKKCN0YI174

 

[Dr. Know?]

Egypt Says Search for Crashed EgyptAir Plane Narrows

The search for the EgyptAir plane which crashed last week killing all 66 people on board has narrowed to a 5-kilometer-wide area in the Mediterranean Sea, based on signals from the craft's emergency beacon, Egypt's chief investigator said.

The chief investigator, Ayman al-Moqadem, said late Thursday that Airbus had given Egyptian authorities information on the Emergency Locator Transmitter, or ELT, from the doomed aircraft.

An official from the Egyptian investigation team on Friday clarified that the beacon information was from the day of the crash, May 19, and that no new signal had been found. An Airbus official said he was unaware of any ELT received or given to the Egyptians.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...-egypt-crash-detected-search-narrows-39420740

The conflicting reports, oy. This makes more sense at least.

 

[CARIIS]

FMS- Flight Management system - Pretty much all us novices need to know when going through last link, IMO! Quite creepy

Egypt Says Search for Crashed EgyptAir Plane Narrows



http://abcnews.go.com/International...-egypt-crash-detected-search-narrows-39420740

The conflicting reports, oy. This makes more sense at least.

Thrilled to see they are pulling back from terrorism a dash - I am sure Egypt Air is shaking in their boots.

 

[CARIIS]

Egypt Says Search for Crashed EgyptAir Plane Narrows



http://abcnews.go.com/International...-egypt-crash-detected-search-narrows-39420740

The conflicting reports, oy. This makes more sense at least.

Thrilled to see they are pulling back from terrorism a dash - I am sure Egypt Air is shaking in their boots.

I have never understood how the media, in regards to the "remains" indicating an "explosion" = terrorism. Of course there was an explosion - how they spin that into "leaning" toward terrorism is ludicrious, IMO.

Body "parts" expected - what did the media anticpate to find bodies fastened in their seats?

If anything it indicates high speed impact with the water.

They would not have been able to find so "many" parts in a clustered area -. If the plane completely blew up in the air (bomb) , dont know anyway to say it other than , body parts no bigger than a hand, would be spread all over the place.

Finding what they did in an "area" IMO, indicates a reasonably , somewhat intact, aircraft at impact -

Metal fatigue and subsquent failure, can often be "progressive" ( like slowly ripping a sheet a paper) as oppossed to an instant "event". ACARS seems to support this. Explosive decompresion results in smoke.

The terminolgy Explosive decompresion gives a visual, often not correct. Its more like air going out of a baloon than a balloon popping.

moo

 

[JohnPaul]

if we have the technology to put GPS in cell phones and cars, why can't they do it on planes, or the "black boxes"? :thinking:

using my own quote here,

but seriously,

many large companies, even small ones, have GPS tracking devices in company vehicles,

i will just use courier companies as a random example, take a look at FEDEX or UPS, they can go online and see where any of their vehicles are at any point in time, and pretty much pinpoint the vehicle within a few feet or meters,

they use this to schedule pickups, and give the pickup to the closest vehicle within the pickup call location,

i dont know if im missing something here when i ask this, but why cant that same technology be applied to airplanes?

surely this is possible,

the best location to put such a device would be within the "black boxes" themselves, this way they could always track an airplane, and in the event of an accident they could then easily track the location of the "black boxes", within a few feet or meters in the same way FEDEX or UPS tracks their vehicles,

this satellite radar crap is a thing of the past as far as i am concerned,

 

[catatonia]

When AF447 crashed, it didn't take long until (floating) bodies were found. Now what does the lack thereof indicate in this case? Since they only mentioned finding body parts, does that mean the plane was probably intact until impact?

 

[MsFacetious]

I was wondering the same thing.. Does only body parts point to in flight break up? Explosion? Not a belly crash like 447? Or does it mean nothing at all.

What other water crashes have involved small body parts rather than bodies?