I'd rather the news concentrate on finding those damn black boxes which will lead to the victims and the plane. Updates like where is the French ship, John Lethbridge, at & due in 12 days? Who what when and where did LaPlace come from? Are they waiting for JL to arrive with divers & equipment? No information at all here. As bad as Tucson...
Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016
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LietKynes
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Ikr ?
And apparently each time it was cleared to FLY ?
Was there someone who didn't care to deal with the added work if the plane needed mechanical work, and the passengers had to deplane and leave on another flight ?
Was this negligence and nothing more ?
This just became more crazy.
Can look for the link if it's still up-- but there was an article on msm that said the black boxes may be pinging.
Thought that's what it said.
www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/africa/egyptair-possible-signal-detected/
And apparently each time it was cleared to FLY ?
Was there someone who didn't care to deal with the added work if the plane needed mechanical work, and the passengers had to deplane and leave on another flight ?
Was this negligence and nothing more ?
This just became more crazy.
Can look for the link if it's still up-- but there was an article on msm that said the black boxes may be pinging.
Thought that's what it said.
www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/africa/egyptair-possible-signal-detected/
emirates1957
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RSBM
According to Dr. Know?'s post #696 , doesn't sound as if they will release this-- or do not know yet ?
From a layman's viewpoint -- is a rotation the time a plane leaves and then arrives at another airport ?
Sorry I could have googled it.
Thanks again to Dr. Know? --and everyone who has kept posting about this tragedy.
I really feel for the families --they deserve answers !
Sorry for the delay a "rotation" is a take off, when a pilot announces rotate it means they are past their speed to abort a landing and must take off.
gregjrichards
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Thanks for all your news posts and discussion it is much appreciated. I'm leaning more towards mechanical failure now with the three emergency landings. It doesn't help the airline from a legal standpoint if it's true serious questions are going to be asked if it does turn out to be a mechanical issue that caused the plane to crash.
CARIIS
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Hi doc!
I kinda think they got this confused. When I started checking out her daily routine, it was busy. For like the three or four days before , she ran on schedule, for the most part. Which is tough to do, where there are a lot of short hops.
If she had to turn around that many times she would end up starting to run late. And there was not a like stop 2 late stop 3 later on any days right before she crashed.
BUT, on one site they had the route being flown by a Boeing aircraft consistnetly, and then there was a change to the AIrbus like 4 days earlier.
So I am wondering if the Boeing ( it would be the same flight number) was the aircraft that was having trouble and the AIrbus took over. That is just specualtion.
But ACARS transmits on every single aircraft all the time. It is not an emergency thing. It has several functions, but it will tell on every flight and report it when the aircraft pushed from gate, exact time airborne, exact time pulls into the gate down the line. That is typical how it is designed.
It also is (again it is not an emergency deal) tranmitting to the ground if there is a abnormal system problem, it will tell the ground at the next part of any leg, I am sensing a overheated whatever. That is so the maintence guys at the next aiport can start diagnsing, get part replacement etc before landing in an effort to keep on time.
There are tons of ACAR messages - light out in toilet 4a , I dont know seat light in row 4n not working - your with me! ACARS in most instances are more "maintenancy" stuff. Obviouly the transmissions from this one were far more serious, but the story "reads" as if ACARS tranmitting inidcates some major deal, when that is not what it is for in the first place.
I kinda think the route was changed to the AIrbus, casue the Boeing kept having some glitches, that after the third time they concluded we need to pull her, so we can get to the bottom of this as to why it keeps happening.
There is no way a flgiht can be running on time if the way this "reads" throughout the 24 hours- espcecially since she had so many segments, that kinda deal would have a huge cascading effect all the place.
Now maybe the sites were both off, but they did not match that is for sure!!
just speculating here, But I agree with you the translation is bizairre or they think ACARS is always some big ordeal
Starting around page 10 here, you can see some of them, mostly pretty mundane stuff
http://www.ohio.edu/people/uijtdeha/ee6900_fms_08_acars.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_System
Roselvr
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Thanks, that would make sense
JohnPaul
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i think "some people" are trying to delay this search as much as possible in hopes the pingers on the black boxes die, these "people" do not want this plane found and would rather it rot away at the bottom of the ocean, too much evidence down there to be found,
if wreckage/evidence is found there are billions of dollars in lawsuits, people lose jobs, possibly even jail time if negligence is proven, which is what its sounding like (to me),
if no wreckage/evidence is found, they only have the cost of a lost plane (which they already have anyway), this would probably also be covered under insurance (or at least part of the cost anyway),
does not take a genious to figure out what the best possible outcome is for the company,
if this was terrorist/bomb somebody/group would have already come forward
but then again thats just my jacka$$ 2 cent opinion,
if wreckage/evidence is found there are billions of dollars in lawsuits, people lose jobs, possibly even jail time if negligence is proven, which is what its sounding like (to me),
if no wreckage/evidence is found, they only have the cost of a lost plane (which they already have anyway), this would probably also be covered under insurance (or at least part of the cost anyway),
does not take a genious to figure out what the best possible outcome is for the company,
if this was terrorist/bomb somebody/group would have already come forward
but then again thats just my jacka$$ 2 cent opinion,
CARIIS
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I totally agree you, and have been in that camp since ACARS came out. There instantly williness to turn ACARS into equals bomb was their "giveaway" At least to me.
Using the release of data to futher their agenda, when in the "real" world it pretty clearly indicated that it was not a bomb. There were too many chains of events that occurred over time relativly long time,, in a logical order appearing to idicate it was mechanical, and began a logical loss of systems, more related to decompression from structural fatigue than an explosive device, IMO.
On the night it was breaking I totally anticpated that by the next morning we would be getting video of debris floating atop the water. I think they wanted to let as much as poss disappear when they could not "seem" to locate it. Time stalling.
Unanswered questions (!) can leave doubt , that a court of liability would shatter. There "always" could be maybe it was a bomb - defendant not liabile. Poof!
I think the body parts threw them off as well. Just like shrapnel in the Boston Marathon victims body parts - the reality that they have stated they have not found anything like that. That is meaningful.
There is a difference in injuries from structural failure than there is in an explosive. Its just different. Explosives leave tell tail signs.
The ramifications of it being neglectful, go far beyond liability. Every country through different agencies permits/denies operation in each others airspace. Britain yanked them in No 2015, shortly after Britain, Russia did as well. It casues a chain reaction. The bans are both ways, Russia and Britain will not fly into Egypt any longer either. IThats $$.
It also, worldwide, makes other countries start to ban them. It is kinda like a chain reaction.Especially Britain, who has a great record. Other contries can easily conclude if Britain did it we should to. Tourism goes ka putt! $
In addition, these kind of news stories , deeply concern airline operators, and the public, (flight cancellations) which has an immeidate financial impact on carrier.
Keep the bomb thing in the media as long as you can. Notice how much that angle has slowed in their media stuff - cause they got rebuffed, which then becomes another PR mess, untrustworthy in the air and on the ground - we will fly someone else!!!
They, for ages, did just the opposite on the Metro crash - denied bomb. $
Employees have to be let go, cause of decreasing passenger load rates. More $$. Employees start seeing others let go, moral declines, passenger service gets worse, further money concerns. Disgruntled employees could start to talk to media, about safety issues within the carrier more money issues.
The Value Jet crash obliterated the airline into non existence. (ValuJet Airlines, only a month ago the Cinderella of U.S. commercial aviation, is now fighting for its long-term survival in good part because public attention remains fixed on the painfully slow recovery of its plane that crashed in a Florida swamp.)
AIr Florida did survive flight 90 crash.
I think we all agree, Egypt Air has much incentive not to find the plane, and keep the bomb in the mix. Our only hope is Frances BEA involvment will thwart their efforts!!
moo
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-06-06/business/1996158171_1_load-factor-total-traffic-airline
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-06-06/business/fi-12244_1_valujet-airlines
http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-10...-passengers-crashes-in-egypts-sinai-peninsula
AlwaysShocked
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Egypt denies the story:
http://www.egyptindependent.com/new...mergency-landings-day-crash-egyptair-chairman
http://www.egyptindependent.com/new...mergency-landings-day-crash-egyptair-chairman
CARIIS
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France is awesome in terms of investigation / honesty but on this angle I do not think that is accurate (three return to airports) either. Solely becasue both ( the radar 24 and another one I cant recall) the days before the crash she ran on time, with a very tight turn around time on most segments. Arrival times cant really be BSED - they are recorded by others outside the Airline itself.,,
I do not understand, how ,with that many segment return to airports, a cascading build up of delayed departures could not happen.
I suppose politically I should keep in mind, that the French, also,have strong motivations for steering the story - she came out off their airport, security focus, fainancially impact them also as far as cancelations , tourisim etc etc.
I spent some time in terms of looking at scheduled/and actual lift off times/and wheels down time, to ascertain how many cycles she was being put through.
Also worth noting, pilots are on the plane as well.Their lives matter in terms of them taking off with dangers status of an aaircrft they are "on" as well.
Possibility I suppose specualtion, that it was a deliberate act, could be in the mix- some of the pilots" friends were interesting.
There is also, a MEL (minimum equipment list) for every aircraft, by designers, that list all kinds of "things" that are "inoperable" on any plane. If they are a MEL item, it is up to captain to determine if he will accept aircraft for flight. If he says no it is no.
With the relentless focus on on time arrival statistics, there is pressure to stay on schedule.
There would have to be the MEL list because the manufactors provide it to them , for every model they build.
The least motivated , I would think would be the websites - have nothing to do with pushing an agenda.
Purely speculation on this end.
CARIIS
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[FONT="]A source in the French investigation told Le Parisien that relations between the French investigators from the state accident agency (BEA) and its Egyptian counterparts were execrable because the Egyptians were leaning towards terrorism. You do not investigate with preconceived technical or political ideas, said the source.
This was interesting to me cause I did not think ACARS was in the cockpit and then one report said it was , so now have no idea............. but this notion that the plane had to go back makes no sense in that they were running on time in the days before the crash. That isjust impossible if ya think about it!!
If ya have an hour turnaround at the end of the current segment, how do you turn around (!) land taxi have issue checked clear takeoff again and arrive on time!!
[/FONT][FONT="]if the Acars messages existed, the crew would not have been aware of them because they are not relayed to the flight deck. If the aircraft returned to airports for checks, they would have done that based on information in the cockpit, Mr Troadec told Europe1 radio.
[/FONT]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/egyptair-jet-transmitted-smoke-alerts-the-day-before-crash/news-story/b6f66edf6eb6b3c4db213ffae4f363d7[FONT="]
[/FONT]
This was interesting to me cause I did not think ACARS was in the cockpit and then one report said it was , so now have no idea............. but this notion that the plane had to go back makes no sense in that they were running on time in the days before the crash. That isjust impossible if ya think about it!!
If ya have an hour turnaround at the end of the current segment, how do you turn around (!) land taxi have issue checked clear takeoff again and arrive on time!!
[/FONT][FONT="]if the Acars messages existed, the crew would not have been aware of them because they are not relayed to the flight deck. If the aircraft returned to airports for checks, they would have done that based on information in the cockpit, Mr Troadec told Europe1 radio.
[/FONT]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/egyptair-jet-transmitted-smoke-alerts-the-day-before-crash/news-story/b6f66edf6eb6b3c4db213ffae4f363d7[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[video=twitter;739793670279421952]https://twitter.com/_nicolaclark/status/739793670279421952[/video]
Nicola Clark ‏@_nicolaclark 2h2 hours ago
At current pace and trajectory, deep water salvage team should arrive in EgyptAir #MS804 search zone by Thursday
https://twitter.com/_nicolaclark
Come on John Lethbridge!
Nicola Clark ‏@_nicolaclark 2h2 hours ago
At current pace and trajectory, deep water salvage team should arrive in EgyptAir #MS804 search zone by Thursday
https://twitter.com/_nicolaclark
Come on John Lethbridge!
Here's the direct link if you want to follow John Lethbridge's progress.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:411752/zoom:10
Pretty sure after reading the mapper's tweets that LaPlace has pretty much narrowed down the location of at least one black box & hopefully JL will be able to bring it up asap upon arrival. I hope.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:411752/zoom:10
Pretty sure after reading the mapper's tweets that LaPlace has pretty much narrowed down the location of at least one black box & hopefully JL will be able to bring it up asap upon arrival. I hope.
Wow!
It looks like there are so many ships out there.
I hope they don't end up having an accident.
CARIIS
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Hi Watch!!
Ha! Only mo , but I kinda think, if this was pulled up a month ago, all we have is three more red things. Apparently its a heavily traveled route, they all promised us would lead to quick locating of the debris field- its all geopoltical and $$
imo - world , just like MAL the world is on a doggie leash and collar--------- a crock of sh&t only mo MAL did not crash somewhere in the ocean,
bunch of lies moo.............................
Per the mapper on twitter the John Lethbridge should be arriving around 11am tomorrow. That's Mountain time. Can't believe there's no news since the pings was heard by LaPlace. Some of the boats/ships have been going back and forth to shore this past few days & Burullus is at Abu Qir as of today. JL is headed to Alexandria supposedly, first. Here's a map of where JL is & others.
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=#MS804&src=savs
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=#MS804&src=savs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36481749
Interesting article on the BBC about the search and some of the issues they might face in locating and retrieving the black boxes, and the aircraft itself.
Interesting article on the BBC about the search and some of the issues they might face in locating and retrieving the black boxes, and the aircraft itself.