Evidence connecting JR, CWW and/or MS to one another. How/when do their paths cross?

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In this scenario it would be very hard for me to believe Mrs. CWW knew nothing about this......

I would think that having someone she loved taken out of her life by the hands of someone evil she would not stand by a man who could inflict that same kind of pain on others. I hope she wises up soon
 
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Unless the calls were recorded. It will be hard to say if these were just 2 friends talking or 2 conspirators talking.

True, but let's say LE knows that MS called CWW on a burner phone during this period instead of calling him on his personal cell per usual. That would be telling.

What we don't know at this point is how detailed and controlling CWW is. Would he have allowed JR to drive back to MO with the evidence on his own?

I also wonder if JR and CWW's wives knew that the guys were together that weekend. Perhaps CWW flew to anywhere between the Siever home and MO. Maybe JR picked him up and dropped him off before continuing home.
 
Just going to throw some speculation out there regarding JR and culpability. :twocents:
I'll add links where appropriate after I make some progress at my day job.

From what you guys have uncovered, and what's been reported through MSM, JR had a rough life. Please understand I'm not making excuses, in any, shape, or form for the heinous acts committed by JR.

We [think we] know:

- JR's mom died when he was 10, father died when he was 17;

- Around the death of his father, JR fled the scene of a car accident; and as a minor, tried to buy alcohol & cigs; and received probation for Resisting Arrest/Detention/Stop By Fleeing - Creating A Substantial Risk Of Serious Injury/Death To Any Person { Felony D RSMo: 575.150 } someone please correct me if this is wrong!

- 2007 JR lived with his older brother during probation period; terms of probation included orders to attend high school, obey wishes of brother, remove all guns from residence; therapy

- JR's probation revoked for gun violation; felon in possession of a firearm at brother's residence;

- JR met CWW in jail while awaiting trial (2010/2011?);

- JR's brother (with whom he was living before prison) moves out of state probably during summer 2014;

- JR was released from jail in September 2014

Great post summarizing JR- snipped by me for space & focus.

My pet-area in this whole case is Casenet, particularly CWW's Casenet activity. Although I have a million other things to do, I spent yesterday entering most of CWW's Casenet activity into a spreadsheet, because, you know, I think in spreadsheets.

What really jumps out at me, especially after reading this JR summary, is the vast difference in punishment to crime ratio (for lack of a better term) between JR and CWW.

If I understand the above correctly, JR was found guilty of 1 felony, received probation, then after 3 or so years of successful probation (I'm assuming) is charged with probation violation related to his father's guns which were in his and his brother's home. This violation resulted in approximately 3 years in prison. (Now I did read the posts that said he did things not reflected in this record...but for these purposes, we're just going with what he was actually found guilty of. I left off things CWW was thought to have done, but not charged with also)

On the other hand, CWW:
5/8/1996- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with (1) Dist/Del/Manuf Control Substance and (2) Unlawful use of a weapon. Ultimately pled guilty to (1) Possession and (2) Unlawful use of a weapon. Sentenced to 5 years and 7 years (concurrent) in prison; Sentence was suspended; received probation, community service & drug treatment.

3/21/2009- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with Possession. Pled guilty. Sentenced to 5 years in prison. Sentence was suspended; given probation.

(Guilty plea/sentencing for above was on 10/13/2009. Presumably successful probation from 10/13/2009-12/8/2010- about 14 months.)

12/8/2010- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with 10 counts. (1) Mfg, (2) Possession, (3) Poss of Meth precursor, (4) to (9) Possess of chemicals with intent to mfg; (10) possess of drug paraphernalia. Ultimately pled guilty to Possession only (my assumption is other charges were dropped) sentenced to 6 years in prison. In addition, this was a violation of his probation for the 3/21/2009 incident, which he pled guilty to. But according to Vinelink, he was released from prison on 1/3/2012. So the longest he was in prison was from 8/23/2011 to 1/3/2012; although perhaps he was incarcerated from 12/8/2010-1/3/2012, which would be just over one year. Presumably, this is when he met JR.

In addition, CWW had numerous traffic incidents, and through the years had at least 22 instances of Failure to Appear, all before this final incident that sent him to prison. Perhaps those are of small consequence, but in my mind, they show the character of CWW (as if we had any question) and his disregard for the judicial system in general (which would make me want to throw the book at him...probably why I've never been asked to be a judge :scared:)

So just to summarize a whole ton of information, JRR: 1 felony, 1 probation violation, 3ish years incarcerated; CWW: 4 felonies, 1 probation violation, 1ish year incarcerated (plus a few days in jail here and there for traffic issues). And again, I'm not trying to paint JR as a victim; my point is more "Why does CWW seem to continually skate by?" And I certainly don't have the answer. Although perhaps this ability to skate is the reason he thought he could get away with killing his bff's wife. Just my own theory/opinion.

(all facts above are from Casenet unless otherwise stated)
 
True, but let's say LE knows that MS called CWW on a burner phone during this period instead of calling him on his personal cell per usual. That would be telling.

What we don't know at this point is how detailed and controlling CWW is. Would he have allowed JR to drive back to MO with the evidence on his own?
I also wonder if JR and CWW's wives knew that the guys were together that weekend. Perhaps CWW flew to anywhere between the Siever home and MO. Maybe JR picked him up and dropped him off before continuing home.

CWW and JR could have each taken their own vehicles to drive to Florida. But JR was not allowed to be out of state, so if he was stopped by LE on some driving infraction or whatever, maybe he would be arrested and/or his car would be impounded. This would kill the plan if it was on the way there, and provide a record, if it was on the way back.

They could also have driven in CWW's vehicle, and if so, RJ's gf might think it strange that CWW would drive JR out of town for a job and drive him back a few days later.
 
<snipped>

So just to summarize a whole ton of information, JRR: 1 felony, 1 probation violation, 3ish years incarcerated; CWW: 4 felonies, 1 probation violation, 1ish year incarcerated (plus a few days in jail here and there for traffic issues). And again, I'm not trying to paint JR as a victim; my point is more "Why does CWW seem to continually skate by?" And I certainly don't have the answer. Although perhaps this ability to skate is the reason he thought he could get away with killing his bff's wife. Just my own theory/opinion.

(all facts above are from Casenet unless otherwise stated)

CWW had a relative in LE, so maybe he was given pointers on what to say/do to help him with his various charges.

On the other hand, perhaps said relative just washed his hands of him, after so many violations.
 
Great post summarizing JR- snipped by me for space & focus.

My pet-area in this whole case is Casenet, particularly CWW's Casenet activity. Although I have a million other things to do, I spent yesterday entering most of CWW's Casenet activity into a spreadsheet, because, you know, I think in spreadsheets.

What really jumps out at me, especially after reading this JR summary, is the vast difference in punishment to crime ratio (for lack of a better term) between JR and CWW.

If I understand the above correctly, JR was found guilty of 1 felony, received probation, then after 3 or so years of successful probation (I'm assuming) is charged with probation violation related to his father's guns which were in his and his brother's home. This violation resulted in approximately 3 years in prison. (Now I did read the posts that said he did things not reflected in this record...but for these purposes, we're just going with what he was actually found guilty of. I left off things CWW was thought to have done, but not charged with also)

On the other hand, CWW:
5/8/1996- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with (1) Dist/Del/Manuf Control Substance and (2) Unlawful use of a weapon. Ultimately pled guilty to (1) Possession and (2) Unlawful use of a weapon. Sentenced to 5 years and 7 years (concurrent) in prison; Sentence was suspended; received probation, community service & drug treatment.

3/21/2009- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with Possession. Pled guilty. Sentenced to 5 years in prison. Sentence was suspended; given probation.

(Guilty plea/sentencing for above was on 10/13/2009. Presumably successful probation from 10/13/2009-12/8/2010- about 14 months.)

12/8/2010- Incident occurred which led to CWW being charged with 10 counts. (1) Mfg, (2) Possession, (3) Poss of Meth precursor, (4) to (9) Possess of chemicals with intent to mfg; (10) possess of drug paraphernalia. Ultimately pled guilty to Possession only (my assumption is other charges were dropped) sentenced to 6 years in prison. In addition, this was a violation of his probation for the 3/21/2009 incident, which he pled guilty to. But according to Vinelink, he was released from prison on 1/3/2012. So the longest he was in prison was from 8/23/2011 to 1/3/2012; although perhaps he was incarcerated from 12/8/2010-1/3/2012, which would be just over one year. Presumably, this is when he met JR.

In addition, CWW had numerous traffic incidents, and through the years had at least 22 instances of Failure to Appear, all before this final incident that sent him to prison. Perhaps those are of small consequence, but in my mind, they show the character of CWW (as if we had any question) and his disregard for the judicial system in general (which would make me want to throw the book at him...probably why I've never been asked to be a judge :scared:)

So just to summarize a whole ton of information, JRR: 1 felony, 1 probation violation, 3ish years incarcerated; CWW: 4 felonies, 1 probation violation, 1ish year incarcerated (plus a few days in jail here and there for traffic issues). And again, I'm not trying to paint JR as a victim; my point is more "Why does CWW seem to continually skate by?" And I certainly don't have the answer. Although perhaps this ability to skate is the reason he thought he could get away with killing his bff's wife. Just my own theory/opinion.

(all facts above are from Casenet unless otherwise stated)

:goodpost:

I think CWW continued to skate by because he gave up useful information during (at least) one arrest. IIRC, in 2010 CWW led LE to "a house" where meth was being made. Maybe it was his address, but the wording suggests otherwise.
 
CWW had a relative in LE, so maybe he was given pointers on what to say/do to help him with his various charges.

On the other hand, perhaps said relative just washed his hands on him, after so many violations.

Agreed. I know most of us are aware of that connection and it a perfectly natural progression to consider the same. Even if that connection just called a defense attorney friend to defend him pro bono as a professional courtesy. (it's done all the time, folks. Worked in this field for too many years.)

That said, let's go no further because I have checked him out pretty good. I've found nothing to indicate he has had anything but an honorable career. And let's face it, we all have black sheeps lurking around in our extended families, so I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Dion, your post stayed right between the lines and was perfect. I just want to make sure we stay between the lines, hence my post quoting yours. ;)
 
I don't have a firm enough theory regarding a possible identity switch, but I do wonder if CWW possessed a valid driver's license. IIRC he required 'transportation' assistance from JW. IMO, JR's role in the murder started off as being 'transportation' assistance since CWW didn't have a license, JR needed to drive.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be hard for MS to obtain a replacement license. The process would likely take two weeks
. Do a big favor for his brother. They look enough alike, and IMO, the scam would work (for at least a little while). I'm embarrassed to admit that I know this but, I watch the Real Housewives and a husband on the show was arrested for doing exactly this; using his (real) brother's license because his license was revoked and he wanted to drive.

BBM:

Creepingskills, is this a Florida law about taking 2 weeks for a replacement license? I have lived in SC for 10 years and I chose the 10 year license; a few years after I
got new license I lost it and went immediately to the DMV and had a new one in minutes.
Moral of this story is, I found my license a couple weeks later under my seat and I looked there for it a couple times. I think you are supposed to turn it in after that but I'm positive not
everyone does though.
Y'all know where I'm going with this, right?

Oh, about the neighbor spotting a Fl plate in Mo. I thought I read that in one of the articles from FL I think.
 
The nearest airport is RSW (Regional Southwest), which is an International airport.

Ok so she flew into Ft Myers.
And they say CWW and JR spent time in Ft Myers.
I wonder if they were at the airport.
 
CWW and JR could have each taken their own vehicles to drive to Florida. But JR was not allowed to be out of state, so if he was stopped by LE on some driving infraction or whatever, maybe he would be arrested and/or his car would be impounded. This would kill the plan if it was on the way there, and provide a record, if it was on the way back.

They could also have driven in CWW's vehicle, and if so, RJ's gf might think it strange that CWW would drive JR out of town for a job and drive him back a few days later.


Now Cww's lawyer says they have evidence CWW was in Mo.
Not in Florida.
 
On one of tyr first threads they saod she flew into a regional airport
 
If you search Duntulum's posts , you will find the information
 
IMO, the meme, "hammer" nickname, and hammer used in connection with TS' murder were not coincidences. Either JR was asking to be caught and/or dumb, or CWW took advantage of JR's FB profile, gave the murder a 'hammer' spin.

Congrats Creepingskills on the winning post. I think that the FB post definitely played a part but my first thought was that
it was all over the news that Holistic doctors were being murdered and this was the geniuses attempt to include
TS in that scenario so that LE would go in another direction. So smart, NOT!
 
I'm pretty sure she flew out of SWF Airport in Newburgh, NY (Westchester) to Ft. Myers.
 
Congrats Creepingskills on the winning post. I think that the FB post definitely played a part but my first thought was that
it was all over the news that Holistic doctors were being murdered and this was the geniuses attempt to include
TS in that scenario so that LE would go in another direction. So smart, NOT!

Todalu, GREAT first thought!!

Is your name what I think it is? Todalu, as in bye bye?? Like it.

WELCOME to Websleuths.
 

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