Evidence for "Dead body in the Damn Car"

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Was there a "dead body in the dam car?"

  • I am convinced that there was a "dead body in the dam car"

    Votes: 328 95.3%
  • I am somewhat certain that there was "dead body in the dam car"

    Votes: 13 3.8%
  • I am not sure what the bad smell was but it could be human, animal or food

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • I'm somewhat certain that the smell was not a "dead body in the dam car"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm convinced that the smell was either food or a squirrel but not a "dead body in the dam car"

    Votes: 2 0.6%

  • Total voters
    344
  • Poll closed .
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In my opinion, there are some fair indications that Caylee’s remains may have been in the trunk. There also seems to be some fair indications that perhaps this isn’t so.

The strongest indication seems to be the statements made by many about the smell in that trunk. Many who have talked about the smell have had the opportunity to be around the smell of death. We know for certain the smell was horrendous. We know many who had the opportunity to smell the trunk thought it could be the smell of death. There was very little physical proof of human decomposition found in the trunk, in the evidence we know of.There was also a white trash bag with several food containers and maggots that had been in the trunk. Some (probably just me LOL) think that the contents in the white trash bag sitting in the trunk, for 2 ½ weeks may have caused the odor everyone talks about. So, it seems that the strongest circumstantial evidence that Caylee’s remains were in that trunk would be the smell in the trunk. I can agree on that.
The cadaver dog that hit on the drivers side rear fender seems to be a second strong indication that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk. Cadaver dogs have a very low percentage of false positives, but they do sometimes have a false positive.
The forensic reports, serological, entomology, dna, and air sample confirm the possibility that Caylee’s remains may have been in the trunk. In each of those reports the final conclusion is that there is decomp in the trunk that COULD be of human origin, and also the decomp COULD be from another decompositional event.
The white trash bag that had possibly been contaminated from sitting in a dumpster for 30 hours must be considered. Most of the entomology report stemmed from this bag.
Although Cindy’s 911 call alerted LE to the smell in the trunk, and one officer was in the car even before YM arrived on the scene, LE did not secure the car until around 7pm on the 16th. This could lead some (again probably only me LOL) to believe, that LE did not find the smell in the car important enough to deem it a crime scene and secure it. This is another reason I question the validity of the smell of death in the car. It would seem the proper protocol, to immediately secure a vehicle that had the unmistakable smell of death, when there was a missing child report.

So, if I’m on the jury, and the result of my decision could result in someone’s execution, the question is, am I certain beyond a reasonable doubt that Caylee’s remains were in this trunk.
1. The cadaver dog hit, but they occasionally have false positives.
2. A number of people thought the smell of death was in the car, but there was a trash bag in the trunk that may have caused the smell.
3. The forensic reports say its possible, but could be from something else.
4. The police didn’t seem to initially treat the smell of death as high priority
.

For me, I think there is a strong possibility that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk, but I cannot condemn someone to be executed, while I still have what seem to me to be reasonable doubts. Therefore, I can’t agree beyond a reasonable doubt that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk. As always my entire post is moo


Your post, IMO, was written with much thought and great arguments...
But, I just wanted to add some things, IIRC and IMO and IME (in my experience), to your post.

#1 and #4 seem to go hand and hand in my response....just the meer fact that cadaver dogs were pretty much brought to the car and the back yard of the Anthony's from the get go, IMO, does prove LE DID, in fact, treat this "smell of death" as a high priority. And, yes, cadaver dogs have been known to hit false positively...yet, we haven't seen these particular dogs "track records", so to speak. Also...there were other tests done initially....collection of trunk evidence, etc.
Seems to me, the simple fact that LE was taking this as a homicide/dead body in the trunk couldn't be reported immediately, because the defense/Anthony's would be saying EXACTLY what they are accusing LE of doing now...that LE treated this case as a "homicide" from the beginning...and didn't do enough investigating. The "double edged sword", so to speak.

For #2 and # 3....for a garbage bag that size....with those contents...to creat such a LASTING stench is pretty slim to none. For one of my college courses in Food Chemistry, waaaay back in the '80's, we took a "class trip" to a garbage dump (LOL)....to collect samples to be analyzed for different chemical components....and put together the results for comparison between different "areas" in the dump....because, obviously, different areas would have diff garbage, and diff chemicals present. TRUST me, NOT chemically comparable to the stench of a decomposing body.
Another story...sorry, but humor me....this was verrrry illegal and could have gotten my friend in BEYOND serious trouble....he was training in the Homicide Division, of course back in those crazy '80's, for the police force in Northern NJ....part of the training was morgue/body examination....I've ALWAYS had this morbid curiosity with death and body decomp - I know, I'm a great date - ....so he took me into the area where the remains of a recently found decomposing body was being held and unzipped that body bag, and OMG!!! I truly, no lie, ran out of the room straight to the garbage and tossed my cookies. That smell seemed to follow me like those "wispy fingers" in the cartoons. I've worked with all the chemicals "seperately" that were ID'd in the trunk....a good majority of them are God awful by themselves, let alone all together, in the specific amount formed only during decomp. Although, some of the same chemicals in the correct proportion will/can be used to form a wonderful fruit flavor...LOL
IIRC, the car was sealed/considered evidence soon after LE arrived at the Anthony's.....no one called LE to the tow yard to do it, since I'm pretty positive GA KNEW what/who that smell was coming from. If any evidence was tampered with, it was done by the A's in their effort to remove the stench....AND wash the pants that "smelled like the car"....

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5802646/Casey-Anthony-LIBS-report

PS...don't forget the LIBS data...LOL

And, again, you had a great post, IMO
 
TDA you do put a lot of research & thought in to your posts. Even though we disagree, I enjoy reading your views. :)
 
I think this all boils down to what the jury will believe.
I also think that it would be stupid for the defense to dispute the smell in the car, but that is just my opinion.

From a juror's point of view, they have to choose which expert is stating forensics from a factual standpoint correct? One of them will say one thing, and the other will say human decomp..
This in my opinion is where any juror who has no forensics background, nor has ever smelled a dead body, must use their common sense. How else could they determine the smell in the car?
With only one expert and Casey's statement about Zenaida taking Caylee, compared to the cadaver dogs, LE, Cindy, George, Lee, Yuri, and the umpteen dozen other people who smelled the "smell", why would the defense even begin to argue the smell?
It seems to me that the longer they dispute the smell in the car, the worse the jurors feel about Casey's guilt..
JMHO
 
I think this all boils down to what the jury will believe.
I also think that it would be stupid for the defense to dispute the smell in the car, but that is just my opinion.

From a juror's point of view, they have to choose which expert is stating forensics from a factual standpoint correct? One of them will say one thing, and the other will say human decomp..
This in my opinion is where any juror who has no forensics background, nor has ever smelled a dead body, must use their common sense. How else could they determine the smell in the car?
With only one expert and Casey's statement about Zenaida taking Caylee, compared to the cadaver dogs, LE, Cindy, George, Lee, Yuri, and the umpteen dozen other people who smelled the "smell", why would the defense even begin to argue the smell?
It seems to me that the longer they dispute the smell in the car, the worse the jurors feel about Casey's guilt..
JMHO

Well said!
For me, as juror, what is the alternative explanation that I have to believe? The "bad smell" happening at the same time Caylee was murdered is JUST a coincidence...never mind that many claim it to be similar to a dead body. This is quite a stretch! not logical, not reasonable, totally outside of what my human experience has been.MOO
 
Well said!
For me, as juror, what is the alternative explanation that I have to believe? The "bad smell" happening at the same time Caylee was murdered is JUST a coincidence...never mind that many claim it to be similar to a dead body. This is quite a stretch! no logical, not reasonable, totally outside of what my human experience has been.MOO

Honestly, it would be the same IMHO if the state were to try to argue that Casey was a "bad" mother because way too many people say otherwise. The more they were to argue that point, the more innocent she will look..
I just personally think it will be nailing down her coffin if they argue the smell..
Or, if they try to pass it off as something else...
 
Well then he should say human decomp when he is on the stand. IMO

If Casey's attorney is free to ask the detective to be more specific and inform the jury whether the homicide detective believes the smell in the car is human decomposition.

Being that JB knows what the source of the smell is I cannot imagine he is stupid enough to ask a homicide detective to clarify that for the jury.
 
If Casey's attorney is free to ask the detective to be more specific and inform the jury whether the homicide detective believes the smell in the car is human decomposition.

Being that JB knows what the source of the smell is I cannot imagine he is stupid enough to ask a homicide detective to clarify that for the jury.

are you sure about that (bolded statement)? lol! sorry. could not resist. :angel:
 
Truly tragic that the more cunning, crafty, devious a murderer is the more reasonable doubt is created in the minds of some. Will this set a precedent for other mothers who kill their children.... to just lie, cover you tracks, wait a substantial amount of time, and place the body in an area you know it will be ravaged and obliterated. Truly surreal and maddening!!!
 
Good morning TDA.

Do you remember where you read that the yard hits had results that were "negative"? The problem I see with that statement is that the dogs may very well have smelled the elements of human decomp in those areas, yet forensic testing might not be sufficiently able to isolate those same elements from soil. I'm not sure.

It wouldn't then be a definite that the dogs had a false hit; simply that their trained sense of smell is able to locate traces of those compounds that scientific tests cannot verify with enough certainty.

http://www.wftv.com/video/16922211/index.html

Presser with John Allen stating cadaver dogs are searching the Anthony backyard.
Still looking for results of that search, but this confirms that cadaver dogs searched the back yard
 
I think this all boils down to what the jury will believe.
I also think that it would be stupid for the defense to dispute the smell in the car, but that is just my opinion.

From a juror's point of view, they have to choose which expert is stating forensics from a factual standpoint correct? One of them will say one thing, and the other will say human decomp..
This in my opinion is where any juror who has no forensics background, nor has ever smelled a dead body, must use their common sense. How else could they determine the smell in the car?
With only one expert and Casey's statement about Zenaida taking Caylee, compared to the cadaver dogs, LE, Cindy, George, Lee, Yuri, and the umpteen dozen other people who smelled the "smell", why would the defense even begin to argue the smell?
It seems to me that the longer they dispute the smell in the car, the worse the jurors feel about Casey's guilt..
JMHO

Maybe the jurors will get to visit the car and decide for themselves. We've heard the smell is still present.
 
http://www.wftv.com/video/16922211/index.html

Presser with John Allen stating cadaver dogs are searching the Anthony backyard.
Still looking for results of that search, but this confirms that cadaver dogs searched the back yard

6:13 Cindy points out where the first dog alerted.
7:09 LE talks about cadaver dogs and give a totally different explanation than Cindy did for bringing in the second cadaver dog.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYy30_Jxx1c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYy30_Jxx1c[/ame]
 
http://www.wftv.com/video/16922211/index.html

Presser with John Allen stating cadaver dogs are searching the Anthony backyard.
Still looking for results of that search, but this confirms that cadaver dogs searched the back yard

Thanks for following-up - I knew that the dogs had searched the Anthony backyard, and that they alerted to a few areas (can't recall without searching which areas in the yard they alerted to), but I don't remember reading that anyone in LE later considered those hits to later be considered "negative".

My assumption (take it for what it is worth) is that LE considers the cadaver dog alerts valid, but cannot substantiate them with any further physical testing. Others are certainly free to doubt the dogs' findings, but the trunk hit to me matches too well with the opinion of experienced investigators stating that there was a strong odor of decomp present. Then reading the reports that found traces of numerous chemicals in the trunk that are consistent with human/pig decomposition convinced me that there was a decomposing human body in the trunk of KC's car. Being that her daughter was missing at the time, and later found deceased and dumped down the street, I am confident that (as horrible as it is to consider) Caylee's body was transported after death in her mother's trunk.
 
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17544995/detail.html
POSTED: Wednesday, September 24, 2008
UPDATED: 8:12 am EDT September 24, 2008
Death Smell Sparked Concern (middle of the page)
As Amy Huizenga and Cindy Anthony were driving around town looking for Casey, Cindy Anthony wondered if the foul odor was connected to her daughter and granddaughter.
Huizenga said, "They were afraid it was either Caylee or Casey stuffed in the trunk."
 
6:13 Cindy points out where the first dog alerted.
7:09 LE talks about cadaver dogs and give a totally different explanation than Cindy did for bringing in the second cadaver dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYy30_Jxx1c

Thank you, that video helps a bunch.
The video confirms the cadaver dogs alerted in both the back yard and on the car. The officer also said “we stand behind the information, we stand behind the training”

I take CA’s comments on the inconsistent hits with a grain of salt.

This video confirms my opinion that the cadaver dogs alerts is strong evidence that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk.
 
Thank you, that video helps a bunch.
The video confirms the cadaver dogs alerted in both the back yard and on the car. The officer also said “we stand behind the information, we stand behind the training”

I take CA’s comments on the inconsistent hits with a grain of salt.

This video confirms my opinion that the cadaver dogs alerts is strong evidence that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk.

BBM

Captain Angelo Nieves has always been very articulate in his explanations. Notice how he says, "We also have redundancy in our searches"
 
Thank you, that video helps a bunch.
The video confirms the cadaver dogs alerted in both the back yard and on the car. The officer also said “we stand behind the information, we stand behind the training”

I take CA’s comments on the inconsistent hits with a grain of salt.

This video confirms my opinion that the cadaver dogs alerts is strong evidence that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk.

Clap, clap, clap (sorry, couldn't find the clapping smiley)
now next item of evidence...
 
Thank you, that video helps a bunch.
The video confirms the cadaver dogs alerted in both the back yard and on the car. The officer also said “we stand behind the information, we stand behind the training”

I take CA’s comments on the inconsistent hits with a grain of salt.

This video confirms my opinion that the cadaver dogs alerts is strong evidence that Caylee’s remains were in the trunk.

Do you believe Casey abandoned the car at the Amscot parking lot because she ran out of gas? Mark Furhman showed a video of the Amscot parking lot and there was a gas station within easy walking distance of her car.
 
Do you believe Casey abandoned the car at the Amscot parking lot because she ran out of gas? Mark Furhman showed a video of the Amscot parking lot and there was a gas station within easy walking distance of her car.
I believe she left the car because of the smell had nothing to do with the gas IMO.
 
The defense will probably argue that the same dog who hit on the rear fender on the drivers side, is one of the same cadaver dogs that LE used in searching the wooded area without success. A somewhat weak arguement I agree, but I'm pretty sure the defense will make it. The defense will also argue the amount of false positives that cadaver dogs have, and they do have some false positives. Only one juror needs to think the cadaver dog possibly made a false positive. moo

The officer who handles the dog confirmed they did not search in the area where the remains were found, they searched on Suburban, but not in that particular area. I just read that the other day...I will see if I can find it.
 
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