EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[bestill]

Maybe they could re-create the surveillance video of the truck actually using SMs truck on a night with similar conditions? Then show the jury that they look exactly the same?

Maybe they have done this, it could have been the recent night they blocked the roads off, recreated the route and used the same time frame the films show. I hope they did!

 

[NFYIAMY]

From the article Eileen730 posted: My comments will be in bold.

Sidney Moorer spoke to Elvis from the payphone for more than four minutes.

Elvis called a friend after the call and said Sidney Moorer was leaving his wife and wanted to resume their relationship, Elder said. After the phone call with Sidney Moorer, Elvis remained at home. How are they sure she remained at home? Are they sure she had no visitors?

At 2:29 a.m. , she called the payphone back (are they POSITIVE Heather was the one using her phone? If she had a visitor to her home, say one that might have barged in, they could have insisted to see the phone and dialed the last number that called her to see what this number was.....for example, that person could have wondered if it could be a burner phone not known about), but no one answered. Elvis, who was still at her home (how do they know???), then called Sidney Moorer’s cell phone at 3:16 a.m. and again a minute later (who called SM's phone from HE's phone? Definitely Heather? Maybe not.) During that call, someone answered the phone and there was a 4:15 minute conversation.


Both Tammy and Sidney Moorer were at their home with the cell phone and Elvis was at her home, Elder said. (How do they know this to be fact???) But based on that conversation, Elvis got in her car and drove to the boat landing, Elder told the court. (Again, how do they know this?? Heather is not here to tell us this, and the Moorers are not saying that!)

At 3:38 a.m. , Elvis’ phone records show her phone was at the boat landing. From there, she (she?? well, someone did) called Sidney Moorer’s phone. She (she??) called it three more times a minute later, no answer.

At 3:41 a.m. Elvis’ phone stops sending data signals to cell phone towers or to a GPS backup connected to a Google account, Elder said.

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/20...-weaves-a-tale-of-how.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

Guess that timeline messes up this:

Polly Caison, mother of Tammy Moorer, said documents stating that police returned the shotguns a day later after seizing them serve as further proof her relatives had nothing to do with Elvis’ disappearance. “We were all together the night she went missing,” Caison said. “They [Sidney and Tammy] had just gotten home around 3 o’clock [a.m.] and they never left the house. We were up that night.

.....would seem strange to me that AFTER 3 a.m. (When they were supposedly home and playing cards) that there was a 4 minute call from Heathers phone -- and neither TM nor SM mentioned anything about it?

That would seem a little odd to me, eh?

 

[jillycat]

After reading chatter elsewhere, these are questions going through my head....

Wonder how the DNA evidence got so mixed up when the samples would have been taken, presumably, two months apart from each other? Heather's car was, I assume, processed rather quickly. But not the Moorers' vehicles, right?

Do we have the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the phone calls that night and the timeline? Was there a call to a family member around 3AM that has been forgotten about? I've even seen it suggested her final call was to a family member, not SM, and it also was originally reported her phone was active until 6AM.

People are making a big deal about the discrepancy in her date's timeline of when he dropped her off. I don't really understand why.

Why did Chief Rhodes say this? (taken from a post/timeline made by Okiegranny last year):
Mar 17 (video) — Horry County Police Chief Saundra Rhodes: "The manner in which this crime was committed is one of the more heinous crimes that I have been involved with since being with the Horry County Police Department."

We had quite a discussion here about the 6 a.m. issue. It didn't make sense with the timeline. LE had said her last phone activity/usage was at 3:41, then said she was in communication with SM until around/close to 6:00 a.m. Later after the arrest, LE said the 6:00 time was an approximation (or something like that...I don't recall the terminology), and 3:41 was the end of all of Heather's phone usage/activity. There was a claim elsewhere on the web that the phone last pinged at PTL at 6:00 a.m., but that was never confirmed and there has never been a release by LE of any ping info at all. It's the difference between actual usage of the phone and indicators of the location of the phone.

LE also said in the past that by 6:00 a.m., Heather was "in harm's way". I believe the 6:00 time was given loosely to avoid being specific in the early investigation. But some of us felt it implied Heather was alive at that time, perhaps not at PTL until that time, and that could have affected potential witnesses view of activity they might have heard or seen. Doubt that it makes much difference in the end, but who knows. At any rate, the 6:00 a.m. portion of the timeline is not really part of LE's kidnapping/murder timeline and PTL. Because she can't have been killed at PTL at 3:41, then been in harm's way at 6:00.

As for the vehicle processing, her car was not secured at PTL and had sat there from (presumably) the wee hours of 12/18, through the late afternoon/early evening of 12/19 before anyone even saw it, and then it was driven home by TE. This seems problematic in court when the defense starts dismantling evidence and chains of evidence handling.

LE has said they don't know the "manner" of death, and may never know, so Rhodes use of the word "manner" may apply to the greater activities of the M's that morning and what is perceived to be a luring of Heather, and I suppose the police are including the IE activities. But again, we have LE making a statement that could be construed as relating to how she actually died, then later saying they have no idea how she died.

This is my feeling about this case, based on what we know, which is largely informed by Heather's phone log (interestingly, we know little to nothing about what the M phones were doing all that time or thereafter...surely LE does):

Depending on who was really where and doing what as that log evolved, there are other timelines, scenarios, and locations that could have been part of what happened to Heather, with the 3:41 time potentially being after the fact. JMO

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

Tell me what you think of this.....

SM is out working that night, as he does work nights on establishments when they are closed. He hits that payphone because TM has his phone at home, or because he KNOWS if he dials HE from that phone that TM will know. So he calls her, tells her that he wants to see her basically. Perhaps he's lying about leaving his wife, perhaps not..but either way is trying to re-kindle something physical with her as it's been a while. This is where the info that HE relays to her roommate on the phone comes from.

Now, for whatever reason SM ends up heading home. Perhaps HE said she needed to think about things or whatever. So an hour later, she is at home(don't we have ping records to indicate that as such?). SM is at home with TM. HE calls back the payphone but can't reach him. After a while she says "screw it, i'm calling his cell". Calls the cell and noone answers. TM sees the phone ring and gets super pissed at SM. So the next time HE calls, TM makes SM answer and they have a 4 minute conversation. Perhaps SM makes TM convince her to meet him at PTL. So now a plan is in motion.

HE drives to PTL(or at least her phone does based on the pings), She arrives and SM isn't there yet. She calls his cell several times. At the same time we have what is supposedly the Moorer truck driving towards PTL. Heather's phone stops pinging within a few minutes and the truck heads back home.

We have evidence that SM made the call to HE from the payphone(phone records and video). As far as walking to her apt, no thats impossible. It's several miles from that phone to HE apt. As far as him going out and having a beer etc, someone would have seen him around town in most cases. He'd have receipts possibly and certainly would have used that as more of an alibi. As far as TM being at HE apt attacking her, I think the neighbors on the other side of the walls would certainly hear a commotion as these two didn't like each other and there would have been screams or yelling at the least. Throw in trying to remove a body from an apt, even in the middle of the night to a car and you have too many opportunities to be seen by the apt neighbors. Even if the body is in a suitcase(that would be a BIG suitcase)...have you ever tried to carry a suitcase with 100 pounds in it? It wouldn't be easy..and would make alot of commotion also.

I would bet money that the plan was hatched to confront her at PTL once she made the calls back to SM's phone and TM realized that things were "back on" with the two of them since they had returned from their family vacation. So HE thinks she is meeting SM at PTL, but in reality TM is with him . Perhaps she is hiding in the back seat of the truck. HE jumps in the truck, and instantly TM strangles her from the back seat. This would leave minimal evidence. No blood evidence from a knife, no sounds from a gunshot to be heard from the trailers that are pretty close by. Then the last thing to do is simply hop out of the truck and throw her keys and cell phone into the water to make it stop pinging. Thats the only way i could see that short time window occurring. That doesn't explain the lack of a body..but thats about the only way i can come up with the scenario playing out as it did in such a short time and trying to explain all of the phone calls that night. Now, if you believe or follow my theory...it has to reason that they had to have disposed of the body somewhere close, and that night before they even went home. No way would ANYONE want to leave a body in the bed of the truck, or toolbox or whatever for any period of time. And if thats the case, it seems her body MUST be close somewhere within a few miles of PTL or the Caison home? I believe the Moorers were questioned the next day from what i remember, so they would have had to "clean up" before then.

 

[TTF14]

Tell me what you think of this.....

SM is out working that night, as he does work nights on establishments when they are closed. He hits that payphone because TM has his phone at home, or because he KNOWS if he dials HE from that phone that TM will know. So he calls her, tells her that he wants to see her basically. Perhaps he's lying about leaving his wife, perhaps not..but either way is trying to re-kindle something physical with her as it's been a while. This is where the info that HE relays to her roommate on the phone comes from.

Now, for whatever reason SM ends up heading home. Perhaps HE said she needed to think about things or whatever. So an hour later, she is at home(don't we have ping records to indicate that as such?). SM is at home with TM. HE calls back the payphone but can't reach him. After a while she says "screw it, i'm calling his cell". Calls the cell and noone answers. TM sees the phone ring and gets super pissed at SM. So the next time HE calls, TM makes SM answer and they have a 4 minute conversation. Perhaps SM makes TM convince her to meet him at PTL. So now a plan is in motion.

HE drives to PTL(or at least her phone does based on the pings), She arrives and SM isn't there yet. She calls his cell several times. At the same time we have what is supposedly the Moorer truck driving towards PTL. Heather's phone stops pinging within a few minutes and the truck heads back home.

We have evidence that SM made the call to HE from the payphone(phone records and video). As far as walking to her apt, no thats impossible. It's several miles from that phone to HE apt. As far as him going out and having a beer etc, someone would have seen him around town in most cases. He'd have receipts possibly and certainly would have used that as more of an alibi. As far as TM being at HE apt attacking her, I think the neighbors on the other side of the walls would certainly hear a commotion as these two didn't like each other and there would have been screams or yelling at the least. Throw in trying to remove a body from an apt, even in the middle of the night to a car and you have too many opportunities to be seen by the apt neighbors. Even if the body is in a suitcase(that would be a BIG suitcase)...have you ever tried to carry a suitcase with 100 pounds in it? It wouldn't be easy..and would make alot of commotion also.

I would bet money that the plan was hatched to confront her at PTL once she made the calls back to SM's phone and TM realized that things were "back on" with the two of them since they had returned from their family vacation. So HE thinks she is meeting SM at PTL, but in reality TM is with him . Perhaps she is hiding in the back seat of the truck. HE jumps in the truck, and instantly TM strangles her from the back seat. This would leave minimal evidence. No blood evidence from a knife, no sounds from a gunshot to be heard from the trailers that are pretty close by. Then the last thing to do is simply hop out of the truck and throw her keys and cell phone into the water to make it stop pinging. Thats the only way i could see that short time window occurring. That doesn't explain the lack of a body..but thats about the only way i can come up with the scenario playing out as it did in such a short time and trying to explain all of the phone calls that night. Now, if you believe or follow my theory...it has to reason that they had to have disposed of the body somewhere close, and that night before they even went home. No way would ANYONE want to leave a body in the bed of the truck, or toolbox or whatever for any period of time. And if thats the case, it seems her body MUST be close somewhere within a few miles of PTL or the Caison home? I believe the Moorers were questioned the next day from what i remember, so they would have had to "clean up" before then.

So, after galavanting around town having sex in public places, he then went to work? I guess it's possible.

The only problem I see with your theory is the very tight timeline. Truck seen on video at 3:30, phone went dead at 3:41. Strangling takes a long time. But, perhaps she was STILL BEING strangled in that truck on the speedy ride "home" or wherever they went.

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

I wondered if the IE, galavanting around town having sex was just a weak attempt at an alibi? Perhaps this was not only a way to tell the police they were elsewhere, but also as a way to explain to family why they left the compound at such a late hour while the kids were home?

I wonder how long it takes to strangle someone? I was thinking it would just be a minute or two? But who knows?

 

[TTF14]

I wondered if the IE, galavanting around town having sex was just a weak attempt at an alibi? Perhaps this was not only a way to tell the police they were elsewhere, but also as a way to explain to family why they left the compound at such a late hour while the kids were home?

I wonder how long it takes to strangle someone? I was thinking it would just be a minute or two? But who knows?

Well, I'm not going to google it and put that on my search history , but I know I've heard on ID shows it takes longer than you'd think. I'm thinking like 4 minutes or so?

I thought there was some CCTV footage of them having sex? Maybe not....

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

Well, I'm not going to google it and put that on my search history , but I know I've heard on ID shows it takes longer than you'd think. I'm thinking like 4 minutes or so?

I thought there was some CCTV footage of them having sex? Maybe not....

I think at one time there was some talk/speculation of them being seen on video doing it, but according to the bond hearing they were only charged with IE based on SM telling them about it. The attorney seemed incredulous that they would be charged based on them telling that to the police. I would think if there we actual footage of it, that Truslow wouldn't have even brought it up? I could be wrong...as I am often. lol

 

[Richmond]

I think at one time there was some talk/speculation of them being seen on video doing it, but according to the bond hearing they were only charged with IE based on SM telling them about it. The attorney seemed incredulous that they would be charged based on them telling that to the police. I would think if there we actual footage of it, that Truslow wouldn't have even brought it up? I could be wrong...as I am often. lol

In this article, the police indicate that TM sent photos of their IE escapades to HE:

Truslow said police charged the couple because they had “martial relations” in a vehicle prior to the case and it was irrelevant. But Elder said police learned the couple went to the places and had sex, then Tammy Moorer sent photos of their sexual positions to Elvis.

The acts were a culmination of revenge toward Elvis, Elder said. “Heather was in fact fearful of Tammy during this time period.”

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/20...-weaves-a-tale-of-how.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

 

[Eileen730]

I think at one time there was some talk/speculation of them being seen on video doing it, but according to the bond hearing they were only charged with IE based on SM telling them about it. The attorney seemed incredulous that they would be charged based on them telling that to the police. I would think if there we actual footage of it, that Truslow wouldn't have even brought it up? I could be wrong...as I am often. lol

didn't she send the pics to Heathers phone?

 

[EmmaRose]

I have a question. Do both defense attorneys have all the evidence from the prosecution, or do they only have what has been brought up in both bond hearings? Or is that why TM'S lawyer wants the gag order lifted? TIA

 

[SStarr33]

Here is a link to Marshall Staton's live tweeting from the March 18, 2014 bond hearing:

https://twitter.com/search?f=realti...on since:2014-03-17 until:2014-03-18&src=typd

 

[magnolia]

I have a question. Do both defense attorneys have all the evidence from the prosecution, or do they only have what has been brought up in both bond hearings? Or is that why TM'S lawyer wants the gag order lifted? TIA

The trial date is only a few months away. I am quite sure the prosecution has turned over all the evidence.

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

I have a question. Do both defense attorneys have all the evidence from the prosecution, or do they only have what has been brought up in both bond hearings? Or is that why TM'S lawyer wants the gag order lifted? TIA

I was under the impression that both attorneys had all of the evidence now, which was what led to them wanting to revisit the bond thing...saying they don't have even enough to legally convict, much less hold them over til trial. I'm HOPING that i'm wrong and the state has more, but it seems to me that they are required to give it all over to the defense in time for them to prepare for trial. If i remember correctly, there was also a few motions to compel from the defense, since the state hadn't turned over what they had in a timely enough manner a couple months back?

 

[nosysw]

In this article, the police indicate that TM sent photos of their IE escapades to HE:

Truslow said police charged the couple because they had “martial relations” in a vehicle prior to the case and it was irrelevant. But Elder said police learned the couple went to the places and had sex, then Tammy Moorer sent photos of their sexual positions to Elvis.

The acts were a culmination of revenge toward Elvis, Elder said. “Heather was in fact fearful of Tammy during this time period.”

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/20...-weaves-a-tale-of-how.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

So, if the pics were sent to Heather, how could they now be saying they only had SM's statement that the IE took place. Am I missing something? :waitasec:

 

[Eileen730]

http://i60.tinypic.com/2vb623d.jpg

the road behind Kangaroo
I think he parked back there and snuck over to the phone.

 

[TTF14]

So, if the pics were sent to Heather, how could they now be saying they only had SM's statement that the IE took place. Am I missing something? :waitasec:

I don't think it was ever made clear just when the photos were sent to Heather. They were never clear that it was that particular night, and I remember reading rumors about how she had showed the pics to some people, and if that's the case it wouldn't have been that night. I think it was at some point prior to the night they kidnapped and killed her.

 

[nosysw]

I don't think it was ever made clear just when the photos were sent to Heather. They were never clear that it was that particular night, and I remember reading rumors about how she had showed the pics to some people, and if that's the case it wouldn't have been that night. I think it was at some point prior to the night they kidnapped and killed her.

Ahhh, you are correct. All of this is jarring my (not as good as it used to be) memory . Wouldn't there still be a viable charge in that? Sending unsolicited *advertiser censored*, or something?

 

[SStarr33]

I don't think it was ever made clear just when the photos were sent to Heather. They were never clear that it was that particular night, and I remember reading rumors about how she had showed the pics to some people, and if that's the case it wouldn't have been that night. I think it was at some point prior to the night they kidnapped and killed her.

I thought they said the IE was between the 17 and 18th and they sent her photos.
Which to me, would mean that is when they were sent.

But now that I think about it, why would Heather go with SM after photos were sent? Maybe SM told her he got pissed at TM for sending HE the photos?

 

[south fishy]

I honestly think people grasp that a bond hearing is not a murder trial, including the M supporters. What I understand some posters to be saying is they're surprised there is no DNA, and the state's case in several areas does not seem to be what it appeared to be, or was claimed to be. The solicitor remarks after the hearing have cast additional doubt.



For my own part, I've had only provisional confidence since the arrest.

I do think they could walk. And I think the bond was an obstacle the defense sought to overcome, and now that it has, it's on to other motions. But I'm unwilling to say they'll be acquitted, convicted, or face no trial since I've not heard the complete case of either side.

However, I continue to submit that the claim she was killed at PTL is a problem for the state, and they've committed themselves to an extremely tight timeline that drops off right after Heather hung up her phone and was promptly killed and prepared for transport in under 3 minutes, and seems to have her body vaporizing somewhere between the landing and the M's property. Or we may hear at trial that they drove past their home to the disposal site no one can find.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Thank you. You obviously said what I was thinking much better than I did!!