EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[jillycat]

Do you think they are going to drag Heather through the mud?

Heather and her family are sympathetic figures and I don't think the defense will attempt to re-make Heather's image too negatively, or they risk losing some of the jury. But I do think they'll find ways to lessen the impact of sympathy by discussing events and exchanges in a manner that suggests Heather made her own choices. For example, if there's testimony that she used other people's phones to contact SM, and we don't see commensurate return contacts to her in some form or fashion, I think that will, in the mind of the defense and even members of the jury, speak louder than overt mud-dragging. It certainly won't justify the crime or her tragic end, but I think the defense is headed toward the appearance of a Heather who didn't want the affair to be over.

We'll also likely hear from the state's witnesses that Heather was moving on and was ultimately disturbed by SM's renewed communication to her.

I think the defense will have to walk a fine line with any characterizations of Heather. Particularly when TM was ranting and raving up and down social media and sending vicious texts to her.

 

[jillycat]

BBM

BW did an interview with Dateline NBC around March 2014. It has yet to air. Wondering why? LE?

Maybe it was for this piece but was edited out?

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/54206699#54206699

I didn't realize she had done an interview.

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

For the life of me I can't see any possible way that so many are thinking that SM cared for HE. Is it because that somehow makes it easier that in your mind someone loved her or something before?

Let's face it. The only thing SM cared about was his D**K. She was simply a booty call for him. As sad as that is...there isn't any other explanation based on what we know. If she DID mean something to him, he'd not have still been with his wife.

I've seen it theorized several times that he didn't have anything to do with it, and only learned about it after the fact. Come on folks!! If you're spouse killed your girlfriend/boyfriend, then confided to you that he/she did it, and you panicked and helped her hide the body or whatever....would you REALLY sit in jail with no bond for 11 months just to protect the woman who killed the person that you supposedly cared for? Not a chance. He would have been singing like a canary in order to save himself, and also avenge what would have seemed to him like a terrible thing to do since he cared for Heather so much. I just don't buy it.

Controlling or not controlling...i've seen absolutely nothing in this entire case that paints him as someone who cared for heather more or less than his wife. The only difference was he was using Heather. If anything, to me, he's sicker than TM is as he caused all of this.

 

[lovinlife83]

The defense stated Heather called Sidney from other phones. Also stated she left notes on Sidney's vehicle. Maybe they have some proof of this. Maybe they don't. It's really difficult for me to believe the Moorer's had their harrass HE moments with no communication from Heather at all. The defense just confirmed what I already believed. Same position on the payphone call from Sidney. I do not believe it was an out of the blue phone call. We don't know what transpired earlier in the day or the days leading up to the phone call. Whatever went on, it's obvious Heather was not intimidated as she agreed to meet Sidney at PTL. It seems she was also comfortable calling his cell phone several times after arriving at PTL.

Are we sure Tammy was not present during the questioning? I believe it was stated during the bond hearing she was present. IMO

I am anxious to hear the testimony of the roommate. I don't mean to imply she is not telling the truth. However, she stated Heather was upset. I can't ignore that Sidney's version of the conversation fits HE's emotional response the best. Hoping the roommate can shed some light on why HE was upset because Sidney was leaving his wife and wanted to be with her.

There is more to this story than what has been told by the State. I am anxious to hear more from the other side. Maybe they can help make the pieces of the puzzle fit.

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained.

This is the most I've seen her say publicly.
http://m.wect.com/wect/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:YYoQLYMF

 

[magnolia]

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained.

This is the most I've seen her say publicly.
http://m.wect.com/wect/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:YYoQLYMF

BBM--Yes, Thank-you. I am well aware Warrelmann was out of town at that time.

 

[cuaafa]

Starting to think Heather's car is/was the more important vehicle in the case. If her DNA was not found in the truck, did they perhaps find SM's DNA in her car? Remembering TM's first major rant about Heather and the back seat of her car....possibly trying to explain away possible evidence?

 

[magnolia]

For the life of me I can't see any possible way that so many are thinking that SM cared for HE. Is it because that somehow makes it easier that in your mind someone loved her or something before?

Let's face it. The only thing SM cared about was his D**K. She was simply a booty call for him. As sad as that is...there isn't any other explanation based on what we know. If she DID mean something to him, he'd not have still been with his wife.

I've seen it theorized several times that he didn't have anything to do with it, and only learned about it after the fact. Come on folks!! If you're spouse killed your girlfriend/boyfriend, then confided to you that he/she did it, and you panicked and helped her hide the body or whatever....would you REALLY sit in jail with no bond for 11 months just to protect the woman who killed the person that you supposedly cared for? Not a chance. He would have been singing like a canary in order to save himself, and also avenge what would have seemed to him like a terrible thing to do since he cared for Heather so much. I just don't buy it.

Controlling or not controlling...i've seen absolutely nothing in this entire case that paints him as someone who cared for heather more or less than his wife. The only difference was he was using Heather. If anything, to me, he's sicker than TM is as he caused all of this.

I totally agree.

It's almost as if Tammy was the other woman. Sidney and Heather were in love and Tammy was in the way. I am amazed that so many assign all the blame to TM.

 

[stillwatersc]

For the life of me I can't see any possible way that so many are thinking that SM cared for HE. Is it because that somehow makes it easier that in your mind someone loved her or something before?

Let's face it. The only thing SM cared about was his D**K. She was simply a booty call for him. As sad as that is...there isn't any other explanation based on what we know. If she DID mean something to him, he'd not have still been with his wife.

I've seen it theorized several times that he didn't have anything to do with it, and only learned about it after the fact. Come on folks!! If you're spouse killed your girlfriend/boyfriend, then confided to you that he/she did it, and you panicked and helped her hide the body or whatever....would you REALLY sit in jail with no bond for 11 months just to protect the woman who killed the person that you supposedly cared for? Not a chance. He would have been singing like a canary in order to save himself, and also avenge what would have seemed to him like a terrible thing to do since he cared for Heather so much. I just don't buy it.

Controlling or not controlling...i've seen absolutely nothing in this entire case that paints him as someone who cared for heather more or less than his wife. The only difference was he was using Heather. If anything, to me, he's sicker than TM is as he caused all of this.

:goodpost:

Thanks is not enough. Sidney Moorer is totally despicable. I imagine he made Heather believe he was in love & leaving his wife and whatever cheaters say but he is just a snake. :snake: Agree the entire situation was caused by him.

 

[lovinlife83]

The defense stated Heather called Sidney from other phones. Also stated she left notes on Sidney's vehicle. Maybe they have some proof of this. Maybe they don't. It's really difficult for me to believe the Moorer's had their harrass HE moments with no communication from Heather at all. The defense just confirmed what I already believed. Same position on the payphone call from Sidney. I do not believe it was an out of the blue phone call. We don't know what transpired earlier in the day or the days leading up to the phone call. Whatever went on, it's obvious Heather was not intimidated as she agreed to meet Sidney at PTL. It seems she was also comfortable calling his cell phone several times after arriving at PTL.

Are we sure Tammy was not present during the questioning? I believe it was stated during the bond hearing she was present. IMO

I am anxious to hear the testimony of the roommate. I don't mean to imply she is not telling the truth. However, she stated Heather was upset. I can't ignore that Sidney's version of the conversation fits HE's emotional response the best. Hoping the roommate can shed some light on why HE was upset because Sidney was leaving his wife and wanted to be with her.

There is more to this story than what has been told by the State. I am anxious to hear more from the other side. Maybe they can help make the pieces of the puzzle fit.

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained.

This is the most I've seen her say publicly.
http://m.wect.com/wect/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:YYoQLYMF

BBM--Yes, Thank-you. I am well aware Warrelmann was out of town at that time.

I would hope everyone is. I was shedding light on why HE would would be upset about SM leaving his wife and saying he wanted to be with her.

 

[TTF14]

I totally agree.

It's almost as if Tammy was the other woman. Sidney and Heather were in love and Tammy was in the way. I am amazed that so many assign all the blame to TM.

I don't think anyone is assigning ALL the blame on TM. I think it may be easy for some of us to think (possibly in error) that SM may have cared for her since he wasn't the one running his disgusting mouth all over social media. If TM hadn't been such a vulgar and obnoxious human being on social media, and had kept as quiet as SM did, we might even think she nothing at all to do with it!

 

[magnolia]

Heather and her family are sympathetic figures and I don't think the defense will attempt to re-make Heather's image too negatively, or they risk losing some of the jury. But I do think they'll find ways to lessen the impact of sympathy by discussing events and exchanges in a manner that suggests Heather made her own choices. For example, if there's testimony that she used other people's phones to contact SM, and we don't see commensurate return contacts to her in some form or fashion, I think that will, in the mind of the defense and even members of the jury, speak louder than overt mud-dragging. It certainly won't justify the crime or her tragic end, but I think the defense is headed toward the appearance of a Heather who didn't want the affair to be over.

We'll also likely hear from the state's witnesses that Heather was moving on and was ultimately disturbed by SM's renewed communication to her.

I think the defense will have to walk a fine line with any characterizations of Heather. Particularly when TM was ranting and raving up and down social media and sending vicious texts to her.

BMM-It's really not difficult to go there without any help from the defense. IMO

 

[magnolia]

I don't think anyone is assigning ALL the blame on TM. I think it may be easy for some of us to think (possibly in error) that SM may have cared for her since he wasn't the one running his disgusting mouth all over social media. If TM hadn't been such a vulgar and obnoxious human being on social media, and had kept as quiet as SM did, we might even think she nothing at all to do with it!

BBM

What does Sidney's silence on social media have to do with his feelings for Heather? How do you judge a person's feelings by whether they participant on social media or not. I don't get that ????

So, had Tammy not indulged in vulgar and obnoxious behavior on social media, you might think she is innocent. OK

 

[jillycat]

BMM-It's really not difficult to go there without any help from the defense. IMO

My point is that instead of direct mud slinging, the defense will focus on Heather as someone who continued pursuit when SM had "repaired" his marriage and was no longer interested.

However, it doesn't really look to me like Heather jumped at the first opportunity to see SM.

 

[TTF14]

BBM

What does Sidney's silence on social media have to do with his feelings for Heather? How do you judge a person's feelings by whether they participant on social media or not. I don't get that ????

So, had Tammy not indulged in vulgar and obnoxious behavior on social media, you might think she is innocent. OK

To your first point, you're right, one has nothing to do with the other. I have no explanation for why I tend to feel that he might have cared for her. I do NOT think he is innocent, fyi.

To your second point....yes, if she had a different character, I'd have a really hard time believe she was involved since none of the phone calls were to her phone and she's not the one seen on CCTV making a call from a payphone.

 

[Madeleine74]

For the life of me I can't see any possible way that so many are thinking that SM cared for HE. Is it because that somehow makes it easier that in your mind someone loved her or something before?

Let's face it. The only thing SM cared about was his D**K. She was simply a booty call for him. As sad as that is...there isn't any other explanation based on what we know. If she DID mean something to him, he'd not have still been with his wife.

I've seen it theorized several times that he didn't have anything to do with it, and only learned about it after the fact. Come on folks!! If you're spouse killed your girlfriend/boyfriend, then confided to you that he/she did it, and you panicked and helped her hide the body or whatever....would you REALLY sit in jail with no bond for 11 months just to protect the woman who killed the person that you supposedly cared for? Not a chance. He would have been singing like a canary in order to save himself, and also avenge what would have seemed to him like a terrible thing to do since he cared for Heather so much. I just don't buy it.

Controlling or not controlling...i've seen absolutely nothing in this entire case that paints him as someone who cared for heather more or less than his wife. The only difference was he was using Heather. If anything, to me, he's sicker than TM is as he caused all of this.

I'm not sure how anyone besides SM can say what SM's feelings were for Heather. I'm sure he liked her well enough at least and he must have been attracted to her since he had sex with her more than once. What he felt beyond that only he can say. What she felt towards him only she could have said, and she may have said that to some friends along the way. Perhaps we'll hear about that during the trial (I hope).

When this case was new and just being discussed there was a tendency for the players to be cast into archetypes, not unlike a Disney theme. Heather was the innocent princess, of course. TM the evil conniving bitter queen, and SM the hapless slightly clueless doofusPrince who had fallen deeply in love with the innocent princess and was trying to escape the clutches of the evil queen to be with the princess.

The reality is much more complex since each is human and has different sides to them, as humans do. I think the underlying 'story', one of a forbidden love, has stayed intact somewhat. It ruins the story when the innocent princess had a side and behaviors that didn't match the archetype. And it seems cruel that the doofusPrince could be just a doofus and worse, maybe a killer, and not protect the beautiful innocent princess from the evil monster queen.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I've decided several scenarios are no-go at this point, but am still working on others. Correct me if I’ve made an error in my facts and implications (with what has been published in acceptable media), please:

• There is no way to tell who was using which cell phone with the information we have been given, only the locations of the cell phones. Implication: Anyone who had the phone could have been speaking to anyone else who had the other phone.
• There is no definitive way to prove it was Heather driving her car to PTL the night she disappeared, although there was mention that the seat was set for someone of her height. We don’t know full DNA results of what was found in the vehicle. Implication: Anyone could have driven that vehicle without moving the seat, or moved the seat back.
• There has been no report that there was any video of Heather leaving her apartment complex. Implication: If no video, she could have left in her own car or someone else’s car, or someone could have driven in and gone to her place and not have been noticed.
• There are no media reports of any video showing where SM, TM and/or their truck was/were before the video of the truck going to PTL, except the video of SM at the payphone. We don’t currently know what vehicle he was driving at that time, or if anyone was waiting in the vehicle while he made the call. Implication: That truck and/or the Ms could have been anywhere, including Heather’s place, if there is no video from her complex.
• There has been no report on what was found at PTL that would indicate Heather was murdered there, if anything. Implication: There could actually be evidence that we do not know about. Or not.
• We do not know if the kids were at home by themselves (they were old enough), with someone else(if someone was sitting with them) or if they were spending the night elsewhere. Implication: There could have been no one there to see anything if the M's needed to get or clean up something or trade out vehicles. ETA: Another implication would be that the M's would have been taking a chance going home. These presuppose that the M's did kill Heather.

 

[rtjedarling]

Agree, we dont know who was using the phones except sm at pay and heather to bw. We dont know if it was heather driving her car to ptl. Dont think we know what vehicle sm was in when calling at pay phone. It would make more since to say a call was made from so and so phone and so and so phone was answered and heathers phone was located at, sms phone was located at and not heather was at a place because her phone pinged or located her there.'

 

[Aeronomy]

I don't think anyone is assigning ALL the blame on TM. I think it may be easy for some of us to think (possibly in error) that SM may have cared for her since he wasn't the one running his disgusting mouth all over social media. If TM hadn't been such a vulgar and obnoxious human being on social media, and had kept as quiet as SM did, we might even think she nothing at all to do with it!

I agree. I've never really understood why everyone zoomed in on TM so quickly. Evidence unknown to us at this time may point to her, but from what we have seen I don't see why she is being or has been seen as the most likely one behind Heather's murder/disappearance (though I do believe she is no longer alive). I stopped posting for a while in the threads in part because I was definitely in the minority in those thoughts. Perhaps I still am, but cases have a way to suck you back in again.

I see the narcissism in TM, I think that's very obvious, but I don't see the control over SM as it keeps being stated. I know about the texts or posts she sent saying she had SM followed since January 2012 and about the fling she stated having occurred between HE/SM in Sept/Oct, but together, those two really don't make sense. If she actually had someone following him then she would have known the affair began in June, which I believe is the time the prosecution stated during the first hearing that the affair began. To me, it seems not only was she talking out her butt about him being followed, but it also seems SM lied to her about when the affair started. Unfortunately, I can see her anger at finding out her spouse was cheating and why she would message what she did to Heather back in November when she found out. Does that incident mean she'd kill her? No, but then again, less than two months later, Heather's missing.

Then there's the pictures sent to Heather which are assumed to have been sent by TM. Whoever said TM sent them? Sidney? Interesting to me, it is also Sidney who told the police about the incidents that led to the IE charges. I can't help but wonder if he sent the pics himself and knew the police would obtain them. Why else would he even tell the police the extent of what they were doing in the car instead of saying cuddling or whatever? Certainly he has no problem with lying and yet he felt compelled enough to give greater detail, why? It's also been stated he was handcuffed to the bed. Didn't SM state that? Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. He said it so it must be so . . . and the reasons must be for the reasons he gave?

The only other thing I can think of about TM are those vulgar things she posted. They were horrible and mean, but I felt she posted them because of Heather and SM's affair coming to light. I think her narcissistic ways previously prevented her from telling very many people about it since it would tarnish her image of a faithful, loving family. So when it finally did come to the greater public's knowledge, she responded the way a narcissist would respond - in anger - hostile - and primarily blaming the only person that was not a part of her family. I would not at all be surprised if all the things TM stated about Heather were her just repeating all the loads of crap her husband was feeding her. Not that I don't think TM felt them herself, I do. I'm sure she despised Heather. Don't most wives despise the person their husband cheated on them with? Of course, those other people don't usually go missing or murdered.

I'm not trying to defend TM and say she's innocent. Based on all the evidence I've seen I do believe TM knows what happened and she had some kind of involvement before or after, but to think it was TM's plan or that she concocted it is still a stretch for me.

I've no reason not to think SM isn't just another Scott Peterson who devised his own plan, but took out his mistress instead of his wife.

 

[rtjedarling]

Seems like if this were long planned out the ms would have used burner phones to communicate, may have, so as to be able to move around and communicate more easily without trace. Would have made more since for sm to use burner over pay to avoid being seen

 

[NFYIAMY]

I agree. I've never really understood why everyone zoomed in on TM so quickly. Evidence unknown to us at this time may point to her, but from what we have seen I don't see why she is being or has been seen as the most likely one behind Heather's murder/disappearance (though I do believe she is no longer alive). I stopped posting for a while in the threads in part because I was definitely in the minority in those thoughts. Perhaps I still am, but cases have a way to suck you back in again.

I see the narcissism in TM, I think that's very obvious, but I don't see the control over SM as it keeps being stated. I know about the texts or posts she sent saying she had SM followed since January 2012 and about the fling she stated having occurred between HE/SM in Sept/Oct, but together, those two really don't make sense. If she actually had someone following him then she would have known the affair began in June, which I believe is the time the prosecution stated during the first hearing that the affair began. To me, it seems not only was she talking out her butt about him being followed, but it also seems SM lied to her about when the affair started. Unfortunately, I can see her anger at finding out her spouse was cheating and why she would message what she did to Heather back in November when she found out. Does that incident mean she'd kill her? No, but then again, less than two months later, Heather's missing.

Then there's the pictures sent to Heather which are assumed to have been sent by TM. Whoever said TM sent them? Sidney? Interesting to me, it is also Sidney who told the police about the incidents that led to the IE charges. I can't help but wonder if he sent the pics himself and knew the police would obtain them. Why else would he even tell the police the extent of what they were doing in the car instead of saying cuddling or whatever? Certainly he has no problem with lying and yet he felt compelled enough to give greater detail, why? It's also been stated he was handcuffed to the bed. Didn't SM state that? Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. He said it so it must be so . . . and the reasons must be for the reasons he gave?

The only other thing I can think of about TM are those vulgar things she posted. They were horrible and mean, but I felt she posted them because of Heather and SM's affair coming to light. I think her narcissistic ways previously prevented her from telling very many people about it since it would tarnish her image of a faithful, loving family. So when it finally did come to the greater public's knowledge, she responded the way a narcissist would respond - in anger - hostile - and primarily blaming the only person that was not a part of her family. I would not at all be surprised if all the things TM stated about Heather were her just repeating all the loads of crap her husband was feeding her. Not that I don't think TM felt them herself, I do. I'm sure she despised Heather. Don't most wives despise the person their husband cheated on them with? Of course, those other people don't usually go missing or murdered.

I'm not trying to defend TM and say she's innocent. Based on all the evidence I've seen I do believe TM knows what happened and she had some kind of involvement before or after, but to think it was TM's plan or that she concocted it is still a stretch for me.

I've no reason not to think SM isn't just another Scott Peterson who devised his own plan, but took out his mistress instead of his wife.

What about the texts that TM sent to Heather saying "someone's about to get their *advertiser censored* beat down" and was she ready "meet the Mrs." -- I think those things that she TEXTED to Heather are part of why people see her as the person responsible... (Edited to add that TM texted those to Heather on Nov. 1)

Just my :twocents: