Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[screecher]

dina is a liar, nina follows suit.imo.

 

[justice be served]

dina is a liar, nina follows suit.imo.

I don't doubt that we have some less than savory characters here on the defense side. In fact I would add JS to that group. Although they had money - the manner in which it was obtained is pretty well documented in these threads not to mention on Bloomberg as less than honorable. For anyone that hasn't followed the acquisition of Medicis, just google Valeant pharmaceuticals and you will get an eyeful. Money certainly doesn't buy honor that's for sure.

And being social and running in the moneyed circles certainly can and was bought IMO. Look where this family is today. Good grief. Let's get this trial going!!

 

[*Lash*]

LuckyLucy2,

Below are the links and sources you asked about. No, I am not an insider. I just keep everything!


The Gloves - Someone used gloves. Unidentified DNA on a pair of black gloves found in the mansion.

In addition to the fingernail sample, unidentified DNA also was recovered from the rope used in Zahau's alleged hanging; a large knife used to the cut the rope; the bed frame to which the rope was tied; a door knob on the balcony door; and a pair of black gloves found on a table in the mansion, Grubb said.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

The Footprints - We've been over this detail several times. DNA nor prints from Rebecca's body were used to identify the footprints on the balcony. Per Lt. Nesbit, not enough detail to make a comparison for identification purposes. AKA, not analyzed.

Who did the footprints belong to? The dusty impressions lacked enough detail to “make a comparison for identification purposes, Nesbit said. “However, the size of the impressions … was consistent with the size of Ms. Zahau’s feet.”

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...s-sure-bizarre-case-suicide-family-unconvi/2/

Rebecca Sketched - Rebecca drew and sketched, not necessarily “painted” so much. Sketching/chalk styles.

So I’ve been visiting with someone who was very close to Rebecca and this is what I’ve learned on this particular issue:

-Rebecca preferred to do her drawing with the canvas on the floor. If she ever worked with the canvas elevated, she would put at about waist high for comfort.

-And lastly, this personal friend of Rebecca’s wanted to clarify that Rebecca drew and sketched, not necessarily “painted” so much. She was more into sketching and chalk styles than painting, which is why the friend prefers to refer to her work as “drawings” instead of paintings.

Source - Rebecca Zahau case: Worth a thousand words - Posted on October 1, 2011 by Valhall

 

[*Lash*]

FYI - If the link expired and you missed any recent court documents, Bessie has updated the court doc thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Suit-Court-Docs-Links&p=12351167#post12351167

Thank you Bessie...Much appreciated!!!

:tyou:

 

[Betty P]

Lucky, Nina alleged in her recent filing that there was a book on rope tying in RZ's office.
Since that book has never been mentioned in any police reports, search warrants, etc., it appears Nina may be committing perjury with her statement.
It's speculation based on known facts at this time. If the trial reveals that there was no such book, as Nina claims, then she could be guilty of perjury.
Seems to be a pretty bold, risky move on her part.

 

[Waitaminute]

Yeah that thing about her son not being able to be left alone.... not even normal. has anyone every addressed this with any kind of reason?

Lol. little nina said she and her 'twin' look very much alike lol.

Not.

Another lie was her son not being able to be left "alone".

All the time, the kid is in college, has his license, drives....

lies.

 

[*Lash*]

Lucky, Nina alleged in her recent filing that there was a book on rope tying in RZ's office.
Since that book has never been mentioned in any police reports, search warrants, etc., it appears Nina may be committing perjury with her statement.
It's speculation based on known facts at this time. If the trial reveals that there was no such book, as Nina claims, then she could be guilty of perjury.
Seems to be a pretty bold, risky move on her part.

Yes, very interesting almost 5 years later Nina is just now mentioning this book. A detail never mentioned ANYwhere before now. Not even at the litter box where all sorts of gritty gossip has been spewed. This alleged book on rope typing methods reminds me of the OJ case. When OJ's defense attorneys threw in every conspiracy theory they could think of to distract the jurors from the real killer. It was an actual defense strategy to add conspiracy theories like the columbian neck tie and drug lords to deflect. Imo, the rope book, Shibari, Housemaid movie, etc...the same song and dance.

 

[*Lash*]

No, you are incorrect. It was not "everywhere". There were only 2 samples that were too low render results:

Were there prints and DNA on the knives?
The small knife had Rebecca’s DNA, and only Rebecca’s DNA. No fingerprints were developed from this item. The large knife had Rebecca’s fingerprints, and only Rebecca’s fingerprints. A low level of DNA material was found on this knife as well, but it was not enough for any comparison.

Were there prints and DNA on the rope?
Rebecca’s DNA was found on the rope, particularly in areas that would have to be manipulated to tie the knots. Only Rebecca’s DNA was found on these items other than one “artifact,” which is a fragment of material that could be DNA, but does not contain enough information to determine who, or what, it came from animals and plants also have DNA that can be left behind). The rope could not be fingerprinted.

sdsherrif.net /coronado/

Hmmm...Only 2? Except in this quote from SDSO's very own Crime Lab Director Mr. Grubb there are at least 6 items and/or areas where unidentified DNA was recovered. Fingernail, rope, knife, bed frame, door knob and black gloves. SDSO should correct their FAQ's to go along with facts given below by their own director. It is misleading. Why am I not surprised?

BBM-

Snip- Sheriff's Crime Lab Director Michael Grubb did not dispute the presence of unidentifiable, mixed DNA at the Coronado scene.

"The majority of the DNA under Rebecca Zahau's fingernails was her own," said Grubb. "Various fingernails were tested as separate samples and one of them showed a DNA mixture but the level of DNA was so low that it was an un-interpretable mixture."

In addition to the fingernail sample, unidentified DNA also was recovered from the rope used in Zahau's alleged hanging; a large knife used to the cut the rope; the bed frame to which the rope was tied; a door knob on the balcony door; and a pair of black gloves found on a table in the mansion, Grubb said.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

 

[Imp]

^^All that unidentified DNA in the middle of a crime scene, and LE could not have cared less. Makes me furious every time I think about it.

*Lash* - I'm so grateful you've kept so much information on this case, and for your incredible memory, as well. There are very good reasons why most of us here feel the investigation into Rebecca's death was a complete joke.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

LuckyLucy2,

Below are the links and sources you asked about. No, I am not an insider. I just keep everything!


The Gloves - Someone used gloves. Unidentified DNA on a pair of black gloves found in the mansion.



The Footprints - We've been over this detail several times. DNA nor prints from Rebecca's body were used to identify the footprints on the balcony. Per Lt. Nesbit, not enough detail to make a comparison for identification purposes. AKA, not analyzed.



Rebecca Sketched - Rebecca drew and sketched, not necessarily “painted” so much. Sketching/chalk styles.

Of course the gardening gloves would have unidentifialble DNA if someone had worn them previously. If Adam, Dina, or Nina had worn them, the DNA would have been identifiable. The jury won't buy, "Well, the sample was too low to identify, so it must be one of the defendants." Ridiculous to think they will.

The prints were the same size as Rebeccas. And they showed Rebecca hopped out on her own. No need to match further.

An anonymous poster on the Hinky Meter doesn't count. Rebecca painted and she painted that door, IMO.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Yes, very interesting almost 5 years later Nina is just now mentioning this book. A detail never mentioned ANYwhere before now. Not even at the litter box where all sorts of gritty gossip has been spewed. This alleged book on rope typing methods reminds me of the OJ case. When OJ's defense attorneys threw in every conspiracy theory they could think of to distract the jurors from the real killer. It was an actual defense strategy to add conspiracy theories like the columbian neck tie and drug lords to deflect. Imo, the rope book, Shibari, Housemaid movie, etc...the same song and dance.

If anything was covered up in Rebecca's suicide, it was Rebecca and Jonah's sex life - as it should have been. Ann Rule alluded to it in her book with the Shibari talk.

Why would the posters on the Max and Rebecca Forum know about the book? I highly doubt they received the investigative files - unlike Mary, Ann Rule, Nina, Dina , and Adam.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Hmmm...Only 2? Except in this quote from SDSO's very own Crime Lab Director Mr. Grubb there are at least 6 items and/or areas where unidentified DNA was recovered. Fingernail, rope, knife, bed frame, door knob and black gloves. SDSO should correct their FAQ's to go along with facts given below by their own director. It is misleading. Why am I not surprised?

BBM-

So because the DNA is in an amount too low to interpret, that means it belongs to Adam, Dina, and/or Nina?

Sorry, a jury will never buy that piece of smelly fish!

 

[Imp]

Of course the gardening gloves would have unidentifialble DNA if someone had worn them previously. If Adam, Dina, or Nina had worn them, the DNA would have been identifiable. The jury won't buy, "Well, the sample was too low to identify, so it must be one of the defendants." Ridiculous to think they will.

The prints were the same size as Rebeccas. And they showed Rebecca hopped out on her own. No need to match further.

An anonymous poster on the Hinky Meter doesn't count. Rebecca painted and she painted that door, IMO.

BBM. Just a heads-up, these are your opinions, stated as fact. Suggest you use more IMO's, "I think," "It's my belief," etc. to avoid stating your opinions as fact.

 

[Imp]

If anything was covered up in Rebecca's suicide, it was Rebecca and Jonah's sex life - as it should have been. Ann Rule alluded to it in her book with the Shibari talk.

Why would the posters on the Max and Rebecca Forum know about the book? I highly doubt they received the investigative files - unlike Mary, Ann Rule, Nina, Dina , and Adam.

BBM #1, again, you're stating your opinion as fact.

BBM #2, why would you know about the book?

 

[Mollyandme]

The "strict code" jurors in a civil case must follow is a "preponderance of the evidence." Once the jurors realize the investigation into Rebecca's death was deliberately botched, they very likely will ignore the quickie suicide ruling and consider motive, method, and opportunity with fresh eyes.

I agree that if there is evidence presented to a jury to lean more towards the investigation being botched than not that would definitely be extremely important because why would a jury believe anything the investigators say if the Zahau's can show this was a botched death investigation. If the Zahau's attorneys do find something compelling to show RZ's death investigation was botched and her manner of death not fully investigated to rule out anything but suicide, which is crucial and investigation 101 when it comes to equivocal death investigations then I think a new push needs to be made to reopen her case.

Here's an interesting link I posted in a different case about the major mistakes detectives can make when it comes to determining if a death is suicide or homicide. It's a quick read and is written by a homicide and forensic consultant. I'm not posting this in support of one theory over another, I just found it interesting and some posters who have more knowledge than I do about this case might be able to relate some of the information and procedures to this case and whether or not any of the points made could be useful at trial for the Zahau's. Warning: there is one graphic image of a hanging death scene

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/7mistakes.htm

 

[Imp]

I agree that if there is evidence presented to a jury to lean more towards the investigation being botched than not that would definitely be extremely important because why would a jury believe anything the investigators say if the Zahau's can show this was a botched death investigation. If the Zahau's attorneys do find something compelling to show RZ's death investigation was botched and her manner of death not fully investigated to rule out anything but suicide, which is crucial and investigation 101 when it comes to equivocal death investigations then I think a new push needs to be made to reopen her case.

Here's an interesting link I posted in a different case about the major mistakes detectives can make when it comes to determining if a death is suicide or homicide. It's a quick read and is written by a homicide and forensic consultant. I'm not posting this in support of one theory over another, I just found it interesting and some posters who have more knowledge than I do about this case might be able to relate some of the information and procedures to this case and whether or not any of the points made could be useful at trial for the Zahau's. Warning: there is one graphic image of a hanging death scene

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/7mistakes.htm

BBM. Yes - this is my point. I personally can't imagine, knowing what I know about the case, not reaching the conclusion the investigation was botched. And I say "deliberately botched" because it seems very clear to me that for whatever reason, SDSO decided to "throw" the case in favor of suicide. That's why I tend to second-guess or outright dismiss evidence resulting from the shoddy investigation, and why I believe a jury might do the same.

P.S. Thanks for the link - very interesting read. Could explain in part why RZ's body was allowed to lay in the courtyard all day - the immediate assumption (or decision) that the death was a suicide.

 

[CricketFern]

I agree that if there is evidence presented to a jury to lean more towards the investigation being botched than not that would definitely be extremely important because why would a jury believe anything the investigators say if the Zahau's can show this was a botched death investigation...

Here's an interesting link I posted in a different case ... http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/7mistakes.htm

I also think the most critical issue will be whether or not the jury believes LE did their job appropriately or not. Thanks for the link, very interesting read.

 

[CricketFern]

BBM. Yes - this is my point. I personally can't imagine, knowing what I know about the case, not reaching the conclusion the investigation was botched. And I say "deliberately botched" because it seems very clear to me that for whatever reason, SDSO decided to "throw" the case in favor of suicide. That's why I tend to second-guess or outright dismiss evidence resulting from the shoddy investigation, and why I believe a jury might do the same.

P.S. Thanks for the link - very interesting read. Could explain in part why RZ's body was allowed to lay in the courtyard all day - the immediate assumption (or decision) that the death was a suicide.

I apologize. I didn't mean to post almost the identical sentiment. I hadn't read your post when I made mine. LOL

 

[Imp]

I apologize. I didn't mean to post almost the identical sentiment. I hadn't read your post when I made mine. LOL

Absolutely no need to apologize ~ I love being among kindred spirits. :seeya:

 

[Mollyandme]

I also think the most critical issue will be whether or not the jury believes LE did their job appropriately or not. Thanks for the link, very interesting read.

Yea this will be critical definitely. I know the topic of confirmation bias on the part of the investigators and medical examiner have been discussed and I do think that is one area that could help the Zahau's if they can show a jury that the investigation, including the autopsy was focused on finding evidence they felt supported suicide, ignored evidence that didn't fit suicide, and used more neutral facts as evidence of suicide. Confirmation bias is not uncommon, I actually just read an article about confirmation bias and other cognitive biases that was published in the online version of "The Police Cheif Magazine." It was an interesting read and further acknowledgement that cognitive biases are not uncommon in police investigations:

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...=display_arch&article_id=1922&issue_id=102009

I really do not know if this was a factor in RZ's death investigation. One could argue that they sought warrants to confirm alibis and interviewed witnesses and possible suspects so they didn't rush to conclusions, but without the full depositions of the investigators and the investigative file I am not personally going to be able to have a strong opinion either way. According to one of the detectives, Detective Brian Patterson, he initially thought RZ met with foul play but then him and other investigators quickly changed their mind once the mansion was searched (link at bottom of post). I do wonder how quickly they changed their minds.

Regardless, if the Zahau's can show or plant the seed of these biases or something more nefarious on the part of the investigators during RZ's death investigation, either through the investigators own words, an expert witness on these issues in police investigations, or a combo of both, it might be very effective for a jury in disregarding or seriously questioning the suicide ruling and helping the jury focus full attention onto the defendents and whether or not they are responsible for RZ's death.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...sion-deaths-rebecca-zahau-jonah-shacknai.html