Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[time]

Zinn, good question considering there was little logic involved throughout the entire investigation. My guess is: the door was seen/filmed by media being carried out of the mansion as evidence. In SDSO's warped mind (IMO), to avoid red flags as to why a door was removed, they had to show a door. The message was too explosive and didn't fit into their suicide meme. Thus show door. Paint over message. Quickly return door to owner of the mansion. Allow door owner to paint over entire door (or toss it and replace), thus destroy extremely important evidence. "Hey, we didn't destroy the evidence. The owner did. It was a suicide, so who needs evidence!"... My 2 cents worth.

That explanation seems like what happened Carioca. Didn't SDSO try to claim it had something to do with respecting the families privacy though? Bogus and weak, because they saw no reason to release it. I guess they couldn't claim it was withholding info in case a perp ever said anything since they were claiming there was no perp.

 

[Nom de plume]

IMO, She (Rebecca) Saved Him (Jonah) from a terrible marriage,
Can You (Jonah) Save Her (Rebecca) from me/us (the murderer(s))?

That's an interesting interpretation. I hadn't thought of it like that before. The only thing is that would rule out Dina and/or Nina as the killer. Neither of them would think that RZ saved JS from a terrible marriage.

I always thought it was RZ saved MS (before they knew he was going to die) and can JS save RZ. I guess that wouldn't make sense either though as Dina was probably blaming RZ for Max's fall, assuming that Dina and/or Nina was the killer.

To me this is the most puzzling part of this whole mystery. I just don't understand of any of the key players writing this and what it would have meant. Obviously, one of them did, but I will never believe it was RZ, or that it was a suicide.

Who do you think it was IP?

 

[Inparadise]

That's an interesting interpretation. I hadn't thought of it like that before. The only thing is that would rule out Dina and/or Nina as the killer. Neither of them would think that RZ saved JS from a terrible marriage.

I always thought it was RZ saved MS (before they knew he was going to die) and can JS save RZ. I guess that wouldn't make sense either though as Dina was probably blaming RZ for Max's fall, assuming that Dina and/or Nina was the killer.

To me this is the most puzzling part of this whole mystery. I just don't understand of any of the key players writing this and what it would have meant. Obviously, one of them did, but I will never believe it was RZ, or that it was a suicide.

Who do you think it was IP?

I think that the whole message was intended to taunt Jonah.........

 

[Zinn]

IMO, She (Rebecca) Saved Him (Jonah) from a terrible marriage,
Can You (Jonah) Save Her (Rebecca) from me/us (the murderer(s))?

I can't agree with that interpretation for the following reason:

If that was the intended message, it should have read "SHE SAVED YOU / CAN YOU SAVE HER." There would be no reason to refer to JS as "HIM" and as "YOU" in the same message.

My best guess at the meaning is as follows:

"SHE (Rebecca) SAVED HIM (Max) / CAN YOU (JS) SAVE HER (Rebecca)"

We already know at least two people questioned the version of events they were given (by JS, according to Nina) about Max's accident and efforts to save him. These same people stated an opinion that Max would have survived if the version of events they had been given was accurate.

I'm in agreement that the message has a sarcastic and taunting tone. I believe it was intended to send a clear message about why Rebecca was killed, while attempting to place some of the responsibility on JS, either for providing this version of events or defending this version of events.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Carioca]

I can't agree with that interpretation for the following reason:

If that was the intended message, it should have read "SHE SAVED YOU / CAN YOU SAVE HER." There would be no reason to refer to JS as "HIM" and as "YOU" in the same message.

My best guess at the meaning is as follows:

"SHE (Rebecca) SAVED HIM (Max) / CAN YOU (JS) SAVE HER (Rebecca)"

We already know at least two people questioned the version of events they were given (by JS, according to Nina) about Max's accident and efforts to save him. These same people stated an opinion that Max would have survived if the version of events they had been given was accurate.

I'm in agreement that the message has a sarcastic and taunting tone. I believe it was intended to send a clear message about why Rebecca was killed, while attempting to place some of the responsibility on JS, either for providing this version of events or defending this version of events.

All of the above is just my opinion.

Zinn - I totally agree. This has been my interpretation and thinking from the get-go. But now that we've seen a photo of the actual message on the door, thanks to Anne Rule's book, the word spacing, the awkward positioning, the words overlapping the panel, I'm leaning towards at least 2 people painting the message.

Envisioning a full panel as his or her "canvas," the first person wrote the following, beginning somewhat centered within the panel, aligned left, with plenty of room in which to write:
HE SAVED
YOU SAVE

But for the other person present, that didn't begin to express the level of desired sarcasm. Wanting to make it a more personal taunting attack, he or she grabbed the brush and added on to the message, thus no longer aligned left and now sloppily overlapping the panel onto the door:
SHE SAVED HIM
CAN YOU SAVE HER

Always just my opinion.

 

[4Jacy]

Zinn, good question considering there was little logic involved throughout the entire investigation. My guess is: the door was seen/filmed by media being carried out of the mansion as evidence. In SDSO's warped mind (IMO), to avoid red flags as to why a door was removed, they had to show a door. The message was too explosive and didn't fit into their suicide meme. Thus show door. Paint over message. Quickly return door to owner of the mansion. Allow door owner to paint over entire door (or toss it and replace), thus destroy extremely important evidence. "Hey, we didn't destroy the evidence. The owner did. It was a suicide, so who needs evidence!"... My 2 cents worth.

Well thought out and an great 2 cents. txs

 

[Zoot]

Did you truly mean that you think Jonah "knows he did it?"

No sorry for typos, I was typing form my iPad and autocorrect was on rampage - I meant I think he knows who did it

 

[K_Z]

I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on the logic behind choosing to show a photo of the door at the press conference, while also choosing to white out the content of the message. IMHO, it seems most logical to either exclude the photo from the presentation or leave it in with the content visible. Anybody have thoughts on this?

Along the same lines, I have to say I was quite surprised to find a pic of the door WITH the painted message in Ann Rule's new book. I wonder how she came to have this? I'm glad she was able to get it, and I'm glad she was able to publish it, but I'm scratching my head at "why?"

Why was it "released" to the public (via her book) now? Curious.

Perhaps LE feels enough time has passed that whatever was inhibiting them back in 2011, is no longer an issue now. Or maybe AR received it from Anne Bremner?

Some of the tidbits in the book have me feeling like a few "bones" have been thrown at us/ the public. I'm not sure what to think about that.

Wag the dog?

 

[Inparadise]

Along the same lines, I have to say I was quite surprised to find a pic of the door WITH the painted message in Ann Rule's new book. I wonder how she came to have this? I'm glad she was able to get it, and I'm glad she was able to publish it, but I'm scratching my head at "why?"

Why was it "released" to the public (via her book) now? Curious.

Perhaps LE feels enough time has passed that whatever was inhibiting them back in 2011, is no longer an issue now. Or maybe AR received it from Anne Bremner?

Some of the tidbits in the book have me feeling like a few "bones" have been thrown at us/ the public. I'm not sure what to think about that.

Wag the dog?

Since the DVD was not mentioned in the SW, I am thinking that perhaps AR added that into the story to make things more dramatic.......

 

[Gilgamesh]

Since the DVD was not mentioned in the SW, I am thinking that perhaps AR added that into the story to make things more dramatic.......

IIRC, Ann Rule did not include the part about the gloves being found. Is that correct? Why leave it out?

 

[*Lash*]

Rebecca was right handed. Black paint was found on the rope of the left wrist.

 

[deca]

Carioca- that is very interesting with your theory of an "original message' of "HE SAVE YOU SAVE'. I think it is entirely possible, but what do you think that means? It is very awkward language.
If I wanted to write a revenge note, a suicide note, a "blame" note- whatever- I don't think I would ever come up with those words.

Just want to know your opinion on what it was supposed to mean. TIA

 

[time]

There was a lot of earlier discussion about Jonah writing these letters. I'm not sure anyone believes that anymore, but here is a pic of his signature from the 2010 Annual Report. I'm no expert but the slant on the letters is totally opposite.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

There was a lot of earlier discussion about Jonah writing these letters. I'm not sure anyone believes that anymore, but here is a pic of his signature from the 2010 Annual Report. I'm no expert but the slant on the letters is totally opposite.

I have not ruled out JS. Until we know the exact times he was seen on tape at the hospital etc. He still can't be ruled out. We also don't know for sure when RZ was attacked and what state she died in. She could have been unconscious and suffocated after being strung up. I am not convinved of the time of death and feel that needs to be re looked at. None of the pieces of the puzzle fit together nicely and it think it is because we are missing something big and obvious.

AR did not mention JS's first wife filed for a restraining order on him. The number of times the police were called to the DS JS home is very high.

JS of all people would have the BEST chance of getting close to RZ in a vulnerable position... just getting out of the shower and just in a t-shirt. He would know for certain about alarms and that the dog was not there.

Let us not forget as much as he might have loved her she was a suspect in the imminent death of his son. I do not see this man as having any mercy or affection for RZ at that point and his actions after her death also speak to that.

JS has proven he is a master at deception. The faking of the sale of the mansion and his recent questionable sale of his company... all slick moves to get him out of the lime light. His previous issues with extremely devious accounting moves landing his accountants with the largest fine ever. Who knows what he is capable of?

My gut says AR smoothed out her approach to JS to avoid his lawyers and get her book out.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

with regards to the slanted letters... they do not rule in or out JS... although we have heard him on tape speaking in third person...

I can see JS being just as angry at RZ because of the condition his son was in...her response to his questions about what happened to MS... she would defend herself with I tried to safe him... the message could be his or AS's angry third person response.... it is possible RZ was killed accidentally while someone was in a rage.... when they questioned her about MS's accident... NR told us both DS and JS were told their son would never walk again that night.... imagine the anger and confusion you would have the questions you would want to ask the person who was there when your son was gravely hurt....

once you have accidentally killed her... now what do you do.... anything to divert away from yourself.... and in my mind JS would be thinking about how the death of his son and his girlfriend would relfect in the media and on his company.... make it look like someone with a grudge was out to hurt you.... remember JS was in the middle of the accounting mess that summer...

if you thought your brother might have killed your girlfriend.... would you hire him a lawyer? but if your brother might spill the beans about how RZ really died and it implicated you... you sure as heck would hire him a lawyer...

 

[time]

I greatly respect your opinion Mrs. Holmes, but mostly disagree. Yes, we cannot completely and absolutely rule out Jonah, but I'm just not seeing a motive here because I do not believe he thought Rebecca was at fault for anything. And, as I've said, I do not think this would be his style. This could be a scene that got too far out of hand, but I would believe that is because someone meant to humiliate Rebecca and force some confession out of her. Can't see Jonah doing that either.

Ok adding... Even if Jonah spoke in third person on tape, how does that compare to this message and why would Jonah write that message unless it was about Rebecca's ex? Or he's trying to setup Dina? I think things like that happen, but you'd also have to think it's, what, a coincidence that Nina stopped by and Dina was witnessed at the house? There seems to be too many things wrong, for me, with the theory that Jonah did it. Who's car was he in? If he's seen going into RMH, but not seen going out at some unusual hour, then...? If I compare that to Nina and Dina, I just can't say Jonah is likely.

 

[Inparadise]

I greatly respect your opinion Mrs. Holmes, but mostly disagree. Yes, we cannot completely and absolutely rule out Jonah, but I'm just not seeing a motive here because I do not believe he thought Rebecca was at fault for anything. And, as I've said, I do not think this would be his style. This could be a scene that got too far out of hand, but I would believe that is because someone meant to humiliate Rebecca and force some confession out of her. Can't see Jonah doing that either.

While the twins may have been led to believe that Rebecca harmed Max, think about the possibility that Jonah was well aware of what caused Max's injuries, and that he perhaps initially was able to get Rebecca to go along with his version, and that he could not risk her coming clean with LE about what really happened...........I don't believe anything that has come out of that man's mouth, directly or indirectly via his PR machine and/or friends.

 

[time]

While the twins may have been led to believe that Rebecca harmed Max, think about the possibility that Jonah was well aware of what caused Max's injuries, and that he perhaps initially was able to get Rebecca to go along with his version, and that he could not risk her coming clean with LE about what really happened...........I don't believe anything that has come out of that man's mouth, directly or indirectly via his PR machine and/or friends.

Ok, here are my big problems with that theory:

1. What evidence is there that Jonah ever got Rebecca to go along with anything that was that big of a lie?

2. If it was a huge lie, it probably involves others who know about it. Maybe his child/children would keep it secret for a while or for forever, but wouldn't ZX have to know? She is not going to protect Jonah over her sister.

3. Even if it was a huge lie, I just don't think it was big enough to murder Rebecca. (I know you can say it was something that got out of hand - so a double cover-up)

4. If you think it's a big lie being covered-up, then you also have to think it was imperative to Jonah to kill Rebecca that night. WHY then? Is there any evidence Rebecca was going to blab something anytime soon? Wouldn't her sister know about that?

Meh, I lost my train of thought. I typically would scream "Look at the victims' partner!!"It just doesn't seem very logical to me in this case.

 

[bourne]

While the twins may have been led to believe that Rebecca harmed Max, think about the possibility that Jonah was well aware of what caused Max's injuries, and that he perhaps initially was able to get Rebecca to go along with his version, and that he could not risk her coming clean with LE about what really happened...........I don't believe anything that has come out of that man's mouth, directly or indirectly via his PR machine and/or friends.

I have the utmost respect for you & Mrs. Holmes, but I don't believe Jonah was present at the time of Max's injury, and I don't believe Jonah killed or plotted to kill Rebecca.

I say thusly because as Ann Rule writes in her book, Jonah has alibi for entire night of Tues into Wed. He was witnessed on hospital and RMH videos numerous times. Also he has no motive since I think he honestly believed that Max's injuries were a result of Max's own independent play and that Becky (and her sis XZ) had nothing to do with his accident.

One, I don't believe Jonah as a father would allow his gf/lover/significant other whom he was seriously considering marrying and whom he seemed to be in love with and at peace with to take the blame for such a heinous crime if in fact, Max had an injury as a result of Jonah himself or his elder two teenage children. Honestly, why he would purposefully blame Rebecca when he loved her? That would only cause Rebecca to get on an even worse relationship status with his ex-wife Dina whom he knew hated Rebecca with a passion. So that makes no sense that he would place blame on Rebecca.

Two, again I don't believe Jonah thought for one second that Becky hurt his son Max in any way -- intentionally or accidentally. If Jonah did question whether Becky was responsible for Max's injury, then he would have joined his ex-wife Dina's request to reopen Max's case. And to date he has been silent about it.

Three, Jonah seems to be the kind of person who's able to let go and forgive and move on with his own life. He already divorced his two exes -- Dina and Kimberly -- even though he had to pay alimony and child support since they both had kids with him. If Jonah no longer cared for or loved Rebecca, certainly he would have done the same -- moved on. Additionally it was easier for him to sever ties with Rebecca if he was "through" with her since they weren't even married and had no children together, and thus, there were no messy financial obligations that he would be legally liable for with Rebecca. So no, he really has no motive for killing Rebecca if he simply hated her and wanted to leave her.

The only thing that gives me pause about Jonah is his seemingly easy acceptance of Becky's "suicide" upon hearing it from his brother Adam. If indeed Jonah never returned Adam's one text about Becky "hanging herself" then yes, I would be suspicious. But somehow I believe he likely had returned his brother's text to confirm or extract details from Adam but that we the public just haven't heard reports about these returned phone calls to Adam from Jonah.

Other than that, I think Jonah is innocent in regards to Becky's murder and also Max's fatal injury. I also think his older teenage kids had nothing to do with Max's injury either. I just don't see how teens would be able to move on and hide their involvement from their friends or other family members if they had indeed accidentally or intentionally hurt Max and caused his accident. Teens like GS and ES seem to be arrogant and have big mouths, and I am only basing on what I've heard about the two of them and how they post indecent things online and how they boast to friends.

 

[time]

One, I don't believe Jonah as a father would allow his gf/lover/significant other whom he was seriously considering marrying and whom he seemed to be in love with and at peace with to take the blame for such a heinous crime if in fact, Max had an injury as a result of Jonah himself or his elder two teenage children. Honestly, why he would purposefully blame Rebecca when he loved her? That would only cause Rebecca to get on an even worse relationship status with his ex-wife Dina whom he knew hated Rebecca with a passion. So that makes no sense that he would place blame on Rebecca.

I guess you made me realize where the problem is with any theory the teens were involved, Rebecca kept a secret, and then Jonah killed Rebecca to bury the secret (or in an accident that was the result of a heavy argument).

It seems to me if either teen was involved, it still would have been accidental. Not that big of a deal. Also, if they were involved, I don't think Dina would take her wrath out on them. So, I'm not sure there is a big incentive to cover this up in the first place, let alone keep it covered up.

I could accept that Jonah and Rebecca didn't give Dina all the information they had or that she wanted (being vague here and possibly it wasn't nefarious on their parts either). But that would give Dina motive more than Jonah, or at least make her even more upset or possibly vengeful, feeling they were not being completely upfront.