Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[Inparadise]

I guess you made me realize where the problem is with any theory the teens were involved, Rebecca kept a secret, and then Jonah killed Rebecca to bury the secret (or in an accident that was the result of a heavy argument).

It seems to me if either teen was involved, it still would have been accidental. Not that big of a deal. Also, if they were involved, I don't think Dina would take her wrath out on them. So, I'm not sure there is a big incentive to cover this up in the first place, let alone keep it covered up.

I could accept that Jonah and Rebecca didn't give Dina all the information they had or that she wanted (being vague here and possibly it wasn't nefarious on their parts either). But that would give Dina motive more than Jonah, or at least make her even more upset or possibly vengeful, feeling they were not being completely upfront.

There has to be a reason why the teens have not been permitted to have contact with Dina since shortly after this happened.....previously, both of them, particularly the female one, spent quite a bit of time with Dina.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I greatly respect your opinion Mrs. Holmes, but mostly disagree. Yes, we cannot completely and absolutely rule out Jonah, but I'm just not seeing a motive here because I do not believe he thought Rebecca was at fault for anything. And, as I've said, I do not think this would be his style. This could be a scene that got too far out of hand, but I would believe that is because someone meant to humiliate Rebecca and force some confession out of her. Can't see Jonah doing that either.

Ok adding... Even if Jonah spoke in third person on tape, how does that compare to this message and why would Jonah write that message unless it was about Rebecca's ex? Or he's trying to setup Dina? I think things like that happen, but you'd also have to think it's, what, a coincidence that Nina stopped by and Dina was witnessed at the house? There seems to be too many things wrong, for me, with the theory that Jonah did it. Who's car was he in? If he's seen going into RMH, but not seen going out at some unusual hour, then...? If I compare that to Nina and Dina, I just can't say Jonah is likely.

I really see that terrible death scene as something JS & AS created.. it is very MALE... naked and bound... black block lettering message... knives, gloves...rope... a desperate attempt to hide the accidental murder..

I don't have children... but I try to imagine how I would feel if my relatively new boyfriend... of several years... was alone with my dog and then suddenly my dog is on life support at the vet...and is going to die... once I learned that I would want answers and I would not be very rational...

and now add JS's previous violent history with his exes... then add AS and his *advertiser censored* watching and knowledge of knots....

I think JS was back at the mansion with 1/2 hour of learning from the doctor that his son was brain dead.... and demanding questions.... NR says the light was on when she went there...NR or DS being there speaks to how badly MS's parents needed answers from RZ.... and JS would be the most likely one to ask those questions.... I think RZ was already being attacked at the time NR walked over to the mansion.. early on in the evening.... when RZ died exactly... hard to say...it is possible she was unconscious.. mistaken for dead and hung up.... then died of asphyxiation.... the rigor mortis in her body is confusing....

with HL living right behind the mansion.... JS could have had his car... I don't think it would be hard for JS to get a car, cab or rental... and get back to the mansion...and then the hospital....

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

There has to be a reason why the teens have not been permitted to have contact with Dina since shortly after this happened.....previously, both of them, particularly the female one, spent quite a bit of time with Dina.

I would think GS's mother would be very concerned about the deaths or murders... I would certainly stop my daughter from having anything to do with someone who many people consider a murder suspect.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

There was a lot of earlier discussion about Jonah writing these letters. I'm not sure anyone believes that anymore, but here is a pic of his signature from the 2010 Annual Report. I'm no expert but the slant on the letters is totally opposite.

That first "S" is very ODD.... added on later... the HE is so strong... and then this... spotty S is added....

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I think that the whole message was intended to taunt Jonah.........

I agree... and Jonah would also know what to write to make it look like someone was taunting him.....

 

[time]

There has to be a reason why the teens have not been permitted to have contact with Dina since shortly after this happened.....previously, both of them, particularly the female one, spent quite a bit of time with Dina.

Maybe it's because they realized she was far more dangerous than thought. Maybe Kimberly put pressure on Jonah. Maybe they thought Dina would try to put ideas in their head or lean on them for sympathy?

Honestly, if I were Kimberly or Jonah and this happened, I'd put an end to any visits if I even thought there was a chance something was off with Rebecca's death. It may have been impossible to stop interactions before since Max was their half brother.

 

[Inparadise]

Maybe it's because they realized she was far more dangerous than thought. Maybe Kimberly put pressure on Jonah. Maybe they thought Dina would try to put ideas in their head or lean on them for sympathy?

Honestly, if I were Kimberly or Jonah and this happened, I'd put an end to any visits if I even thought there was a chance something was off with Rebecca's death. It may have been impossible to stop interactions before since Max was their half brother.

I am sure that Kimberly is regretting buying that house just down the street from Dina in January, 2011, although her previous house was also in the same neighborhood.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I have the utmost respect for you & Mrs. Holmes, but I don't believe Jonah was present at the time of Max's injury, and I don't believe Jonah killed or plotted to kill Rebecca.

I agree... I think MS's accident was simply a tragic accident..... and I think RZ's death was an accidentaly rage killing by someone wanting answers as to how their son died... and in my mind.. JS is the most likely candidate...

I say thusly because as Ann Rule writes in her book, Jonah has alibi for entire night of Tues into Wed. He was witnessed on hospital and RMH videos numerous times. Also he has no motive since I think he honestly believed that Max's injuries were a result of Max's own independent play and that Becky (and her sis XZ) had nothing to do with his accident.

Being seen a few times on video.... means very little there was a huge time say from 8PM until 1AM where Jonah only needed an hour to get back to the mansion... lose his temper... accidentally kill RZ and then coerce his brother to create a murder scene for him.... and when AS was finished he texted JS that he was done...

One, I don't believe Jonah as a father would allow his gf/lover/significant other whom he was seriously considering marrying and whom he seemed to be in love with and at peace with to take the blame for such a heinous crime if in fact, Max had an injury as a result of Jonah himself or his elder two teenage children. Honestly, why he would purposefully blame Rebecca when he loved her? That would only cause Rebecca to get on an even worse relationship status with his ex-wife Dina whom he knew hated Rebecca with a passion. So that makes no sense that he would place blame on Rebecca.

When you are told there is a police investigation... that your child suffocated maybe before the fall.... once your child is at death's door.... how you feel for your lover who was supposed to be caring for them at the time... all that "love" goes out the window....and you need answers and someone to blame for the loss of your son... IMO

Two, again I don't believe Jonah thought for one second that Becky hurt his son Max in any way -- intentionally or accidentally. If Jonah did question whether Becky was responsible for Max's injury, then he would have joined his ex-wife Dina's request to reopen Max's case. And to date he has been silent about it.

Three, Jonah seems to be the kind of person who's able to let go and forgive and move on with his own life. He already divorced his two exes -- Dina and Kimberly -- even though he had to pay alimony and child support since they both had kids with him. If Jonah no longer cared for or loved Rebecca, certainly he would have done the same -- moved on. Additionally it was easier for him to sever ties with Rebecca if he was "through" with her since they weren't even married and had no children together, and thus, there were no messy financial obligations that he would be legally liable for with Rebecca. So no, he really has no motive for killing Rebecca if he simply hated her and wanted to leave her.


The only thing that gives me pause about Jonah is his seemingly easy acceptance of Becky's "suicide" upon hearing it from his brother Adam. If indeed Jonah never returned Adam's one text about Becky "hanging herself" then yes, I would be suspicious. But somehow I believe he likely had returned his brother's text to confirm or extract details from Adam but that we the public just haven't heard reports about these returned phone calls to Adam from Jonah.

I agree very suspicious.....

Other than that, I think Jonah is innocent in regards to Becky's murder and also Max's fatal injury. I also think his older teenage kids had nothing to do with Max's injury either. I just don't see how teens would be able to move on and hide their involvement from their friends or other family members if they had indeed accidentally or intentionally hurt Max and caused his accident. Teens like GS and ES seem to be arrogant and have big mouths, and I am only basing on what I've heard about the two of them and how they post indecent things online and how they boast to friends.

JS was involved in a great deal of violence with his ex-wives... I don't think he is kind forgiving softy.... at all

I do respect your opinion....

A child dying of an accident in a home involving a scooter, dog and a staircase... is sadly not out of the realm of normal... children often die from these kinds of accidents.
A woman dying at the hands of her lover/boyfriend... again not an uncommon death...

the only thing that is uncommon in this scenario is the death scene.... and I think that bizarre death scene was "created" to hide a rage murder.. that is why it doesn't make much sense.... the scene is very MALE involving, ropes (AS) nudity (JS & AS) ... block lettering in black.... very male scene... a mish mash of things to hide a rage murder and try to make it look like a stranger killing....

IMO

 

[Inparadise]

JS was involved in a great deal of violence with his ex-wives... I don't think he is kind forgiving softy.... at all

I do respect your opinion....

And let's not forget some of his former close friends/employees that he has thrown under the bus in the past........

 

[time]

JS was involved in a great deal of violence with his ex-wives... I don't think he is kind forgiving softy.... at all

I do respect your opinion....

A child dying of an accident in a home involving a scooter, dog and a staircase... is sadly not out of the realm of normal... children often die from these kinds of accidents.
A woman dying at the hands of her lover/boyfriend... again not an uncommon death...

the only thing that is uncommon in this scenario is the death scene.... and I think that bizarre death scene was "created" to hide a rage murder.. that is why it doesn't make much sense.... the scene is very MALE involving, ropes (AS) nudity (JS & AS) ... block lettering in black.... very male scene... a mish mash of things to hide a rage murder and try to make it look like a stranger killing....

IMO

I'm not saying I have the answers or the correct version, for sure! I wouldn't be surprised at the truth being different than my own opinions.

I agree that it looks like some staging went on (perhaps) - I'm still not sure she went over that balcony, for instance. And, looking at a few other cases, I have to say that mucking up a murder crime scene may not be that unusual. Not that it's typical.

I don't want to sound like a parrot, but I fully believe that Dina is as capable of violence as Jonah and just as cunning in her own way. I see what you are saying about the crime scene. I can also see it as a woman humiliating and raging on another woman (particularly since it appears to have sexual connotations and jealousy attached) and the manly part is actually someone who is aggressive, not indicative or male or female. However, if you look at gender roles, that's exactly what the definition are.... it doesn't have to do with your sex (your biological accoutrements), it has to do with certain traits being assigned as 'feminine' or 'masculine'. Agression would be masculine?

I really like to hear other theories and here's to you for your dedication to this case Holmes. :rocker:

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Another thing about JS being seen multiple times on those tapes.... interesting... I really want to know exactly when and hopefully some day see them... if they even still exist.... I want to see if he at anytime glances at those cameras... it could be deliberate that he makes sure he is seen by security cameras...

How does DS avoid being scene on those tapes? Both DS and JS agree they met up at 1AM...

...... I sure hope those tapes exist as evidence..... to see JS's face and demeanor when all of this is going on.... invalueable... very important...

 

[time]

Another thing about JS being seen multiple times on those tapes.... interesting... I really want to know exactly when and hopefully some day see them... if they even still exist.... I want to see if he at anytime glances at those cameras... it could be deliberate that he makes sure he is seen by security cameras...

How does DS avoid being scene on those tapes? Both DS and JS agree they met up at 1AM...

I was wondering about this - where is this written about? What did Jonah say about the time period between 8 pm and 1 am?

 

[Inparadise]

Another thing about JS being seen multiple times on those tapes.... interesting... I really want to know exactly when and hopefully some day see them... if they even still exist.... I want to see if he at anytime glances at those cameras... it could be deliberate that he makes sure he is seen by security cameras...

How does DS avoid being scene on those tapes? Both DS and JS agree they met up at 1AM...

...... I sure hope those tapes exist as evidence..... to see JS's face and demeanor when all of this is going on.... invalueable... very important...

Didn't Jonah arrive at RMH at 1am? IIRC, Dina was not staying there with him. And about Jonah being seen on the tapes.........specifically at what times and which locations within the hospital?

 

[Gilgamesh]

with regards to the slanted letters... they do not rule in or out JS... although we have heard him on tape speaking in third person...

I can see JS being just as angry at RZ because of the condition his son was in...her response to his questions about what happened to MS... she would defend herself with I tried to safe him... the message could be his or AS's angry third person response.... it is possible RZ was killed accidentally while someone was in a rage.... when they questioned her about MS's accident... NR told us both DS and JS were told their son would never walk again that night.... imagine the anger and confusion you would have the questions you would want to ask the person who was there when your son was gravely hurt....

once you have accidentally killed her... now what do you do.... anything to divert away from yourself.... and in my mind JS would be thinking about how the death of his son and his girlfriend would relfect in the media and on his company.... make it look like someone with a grudge was out to hurt you.... remember JS was in the middle of the accounting mess that summer...

if you thought your brother might have killed your girlfriend.... would you hire him a lawyer? but if your brother might spill the beans about how RZ really died and it implicated you... you sure as heck would hire him a lawyer...

I appreciate your thoughts. I don't mention JS much but i have never, ever give him a pass.....
BTW, it is interesting that on the Patch someone has hijacked the name 'Mrs. Holmes'. They are clearly on the offensive as well as not being the real Mrs. Holmes from WS. Their postings are supporting the suicide theory. I've seen that happen before. Why hijack the Mrs. Holmes nic from WS? Are these comments from WS (under the names Mts. Holmes)hitting a little too close to home?
The Patch poster is basically attacking THIS Mrs. Holmes and anyone who supports the murder theory. Why?

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I appreciate your thoughts. I don't mention JS much but i have never, ever give him a pass.....
BTW, it is interesting that on the Patch someone has hijacked the name 'Mrs. Holmes'. They are clearly on the offensive as well as not being the real Mrs. Holmes from WS. Their postings are supporting the suicide theory. I've seen that happen before. Why hijack the Mrs. Holmes nic from WS? Are these comments from WS (under the names Mts. Holmes)hitting a little too close to home?
The Patch poster is basically attacking THIS Mrs. Holmes and anyone who supports the murder theory. Why?

Goodness gracious..... the games people play... :what:

 

[Inparadise]

I appreciate your thoughts. I don't mention JS much but i have never, ever give him a pass.....
BTW, it is interesting that on the Patch someone has hijacked the name 'Mrs. Holmes'. They are clearly on the offensive as well as not being the real Mrs. Holmes from WS. Their postings are supporting the suicide theory. I've seen that happen before. Why hijack the Mrs. Holmes nic from WS? Are these comments from WS (under the names Mts. Holmes)hitting a little too close to home?
The Patch poster is basically attacking THIS Mrs. Holmes and anyone who supports the murder theory. Why?

Basically, the Patch doesn't moderate posters, and as a result, things have become ugly at times over there.

 

[Gilgamesh]

That first "S" is very ODD.... added on later... the HE is so strong... and then this... spotty S is added....

The spotty s could have been from the smaller paint brush

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I was wondering about this - where is this written about? What did Jonah say about the time period between 8 pm and 1 am?

good point Time.... I believe it is actually Gore saying Jonah was there at 1am..meeting up with DS.... I don't think we have anything but what Gore and NR have said with regards to who was where and when...

 

[Gilgamesh]

I have the utmost respect for you & Mrs. Holmes, but I don't believe Jonah was present at the time of Max's injury, and I don't believe Jonah killed or plotted to kill Rebecca.

I say thusly because as Ann Rule writes in her book, Jonah has alibi for entire night of Tues into Wed. He was witnessed on hospital and RMH videos numerous times. Also he has no motive since I think he honestly believed that Max's injuries were a result of Max's own independent play and that Becky (and her sis XZ) had nothing to do with his accident.

One, I don't believe Jonah as a father would allow his gf/lover/significant other whom he was seriously considering marrying and whom he seemed to be in love with and at peace with to take the blame for such a heinous crime if in fact, Max had an injury as a result of Jonah himself or his elder two teenage children. Honestly, why he would purposefully blame Rebecca when he loved her? That would only cause Rebecca to get on an even worse relationship status with his ex-wife Dina whom he knew hated Rebecca with a passion. So that makes no sense that he would place blame on Rebecca.

Two, again I don't believe Jonah thought for one second that Becky hurt his son Max in any way -- intentionally or accidentally. If Jonah did question whether Becky was responsible for Max's injury, then he would have joined his ex-wife Dina's request to reopen Max's case. And to date he has been silent about it.

Three, Jonah seems to be the kind of person who's able to let go and forgive and move on with his own life. He already divorced his two exes -- Dina and Kimberly -- even though he had to pay alimony and child support since they both had kids with him. If Jonah no longer cared for or loved Rebecca, certainly he would have done the same -- moved on. Additionally it was easier for him to sever ties with Rebecca if he was "through" with her since they weren't even married and had no children together, and thus, there were no messy financial obligations that he would be legally liable for with Rebecca. So no, he really has no motive for killing Rebecca if he simply hated her and wanted to leave her.

The only thing that gives me pause about Jonah is his seemingly easy acceptance of Becky's "suicide" upon hearing it from his brother Adam. If indeed Jonah never returned Adam's one text about Becky "hanging herself" then yes, I would be suspicious. But somehow I believe he likely had returned his brother's text to confirm or extract details from Adam but that we the public just haven't heard reports about these returned phone calls to Adam from Jonah.

Other than that, I think Jonah is innocent in regards to Becky's murder and also Max's fatal injury. I also think his older teenage kids had nothing to do with Max's injury either. I just don't see how teens would be able to move on and hide their involvement from their friends or other family members if they had indeed accidentally or intentionally hurt Max and caused his accident. Teens like GS and ES seem to be arrogant and have big mouths, and I am only basing on what I've heard about the two of them and how they post indecent things online and how they boast to friends.

IIRC, the info about Jonah wanting to ask RZ to marry him came from an article written by someone who worked/ wrote for his Medicis. As a result, I have never believed it.

 

[Inparadise]

I was wondering about this - where is this written about? What did Jonah say about the time period between 8 pm and 1 am?

I don't know that Jonah ever said anything about 8pm to 1am......why telegraph your punches? IMO, he is keeping his mouth shut, and only responding when necessary. If you think about the supposed 3am TOD, and the mysterious VM at 12:30am............he had an alibi for the period 1 am to 7 am..........so why offer up your where abouts prior to that if you don't have to?