First-Hand Impressions / WS Meetup

[FullDisclosure]

My impression when I viewed the dump area is that:

1. This was a quick 'dump and run.'
2. There are absolutely no lights back there so he wouldn't have seen the foliage in detail in which to better 'hide' her. My impression in looking around is that he thought this would be isolated 'enough.'
3. I do not believe he intended for her to be found quickly--if that were the case he could have dropped her body much closer to the developments that are already built on Fielding. She was wayyyyy in the back...lots have not been sold there yet. It's extremely isolated.
4. I believe it was divine intervention that a jogger just happened to go down that particular new subdivision cut that day.
5. I do not believe he intended or planned to ever come back to that dump site and certainly would not attempt to move her (decomposing) body to a 'better' location. I think he thought this was good and isolated and she would not be found anytime soon. And it *is* isolated.
6. I think she was dumped there around 4am that Sat. morning and then he went to HT (IF the time of his first HT visit is verified to be 4:20am). I think it was absolutely pitch black out when he did the dump, which is why she was left so close to the road and not carried 10 additional ft to be hidden in the thicket of shrubs & trees and grasses.

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f...?action=view&current=CooperSitePanorama-1.jpg

Credit for the photo goes to Skittles--I just linked to it...but notice that there is a street lamp on the right hand side if you scroll over; it's there in the cul de sac, not too far from the dump site. So it probably wasn't completely dark. (see #2, above)

I do agree with SG, however, that the person who left Nancy there did not plan to go back and move her body.

 

[SleuthyGal]

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/SkittlesView/Cooper%20site/?action=view&current=CooperSitePanorama-1.jpg

Credit for the photo goes to Skittles--I just linked to it...but notice that there is a street lamp on the right hand side if you scroll over; it's there in the cul de sac, not too far from the dump site

Yeah we didn't know if that streetlight was operational yet (or was on in the evenings). There was one further down toward the houses that *was* on when we drove by. If someone would like to take a ride out there to the dump site when it's nighttime and see if that light comes on, I'd sure appreciate it, as would your fellow sleuthies! I'm too :chicken: to do it myself!

 

[reddress58]

Yeah we didn't know if that streetlight was operational yet (or was on in the evenings). There was one further down toward the houses that *was* on when we drove by. If someone would like to take a ride out there to the dump site when it's nighttime and see if that light comes on, I'd sure appreciate it, as would your fellow sleuthies! I'm too :chicken: to do it myself!

Let's just call Toll Brothers and ask them! They are the developers.

 

[Skittles]

Let's just call Toll Brothers and ask them! They are the developers.

Yuh, I'm sure that would go over well! I'm hoping to go back with my husband (no way am I going by myself) to see what the light is like in the early AM (adjusting for the time difference for sunrise).

 

[concernedperson]

I think it is fairly simple. He was saying that she went for a run and no one knew exactly where she would run. He didn't want obvious contamination after the body starts to decompose so he dumped her at the first available place. He had 2 days before the body was discovered so that much worked for him. Then, the temperature had a placement in the condition and anything he thought to use before placement. The rest of the time was spent taking care of the homefront and getting rid of evidence there.

Of course, this is MO.

 

[wirehair]

I believe the area is very isolated. The roads may be paved but not grading has been done on the lots. That section does not have lots for sale yet according to another post. I imagine that no matter how logical you are when you are calm; killing someone would make your thoughts race. Also, with all of the underbrush, water etc.; chances of finding a poisonous snake could be high. If he's a "city dude", he probaly didn't leave the pavement. I have an 80 pound dog and I wouldn't walk back there in the daylight, much less at 4 something. Even most people that stay up and watch tv late at night usually fall asleep by 2 or so. I heard somewhere that 3-4 range is prime time for committing crime. I went out at 3 am the other morning on Ten Ten and there was still traffic on the road. Young people stay out much later.

 

[reddress58]

"Also, with all of the underbrush, water etc.; chances of finding a poisonous snake could be high. If he's a "city dude", he probaly didn't leave the pavement."


Wirehair: YOU JUST CRACKED ME UP!!:rotfl:

 

[EntreNous]

I don't reasonably see how he could deal with a decomposing corpse by himself, in such a way as to not inadvertently leave forensic evidence all over himself, his vehicle, his clothes, etc. Even if he used multiple trash bags, etc. Her body would have attracted bugs, and her corpse would start to liquefy from the inside out during the decomp process, her body would bloat and tears would appear in the skin, allowing fluids to ooze out, and her skin and hair would be sloughing off. (sorry for the absolute grossness of this discussion, but that's what would be happening that he'd have to contend with)...unless his plan was to either get back to the site to move her *immediately* before decomp advanced past rigor mortis, within 12-24 hrs, or else wait for her to completely decompose down to just bones (which could take several weeks). But that in between stage, from 24 hrs post mortem in hot weather to maybe 6-8 weeks...I can't imagine him wanting to be anywhere nearby or being able to deal with the mess and odor that a decomposing body becomes in those various stages. Maybe he thought

1. No one would notice her missing for at least a couple days and/or
2. No one would find her even if they noticed her misssing.

But even if #1 above occurred, what would he have done with his children in the meantime? He'd be leaving them alone again to go move the body. And if that body was anywhere in his vehicle after the first 12 - 18 hrs, there would likely be an odor that would be obvious and would be easily detected.

I know, the realities of it are horrific. I just know that's what Perry March did here in Nashville after killing his wife Janet March. He made the quick dump, then later returned and moved her body which was never found. I can't imagine how a person could possibly do that, but I also can't imagine being capable of murdering someone either.

 

[Star12]

See, SG, I have to disagree with #5. I don't think it's that isolated and her body was totally out in the open. As I said earlier, it would only be a matter of days or weeks before it was discovered. There are gravel mounds in sight, it's already been paved.

I do think it was a quick dump and run but I think he initially intended to go back and move the body. That's exactly what happened in the Perry March case. He did a quick dump. Lucky for him no one found her body. He waited until the police cooled off and went back and moved her body to a new location, much more remote. If his father hadn't turned on him nobody would have ever known.

I think to leave the body out in the open like that with no plans of moving it, under no cover whatsoever would be dumb. A dog could have found it easily. In fact a dog did find it. I don't think BC is dumb.

That site is extremely isolated. What may not be apparent from the photos is that, while facing the retention pond, the area to the left juts out and you can't see a darn thing beyond it, except for right across the cul-de-sac -- right behind your back.

That gravel mound is across the road from the beginning of this cul-de-sac road, and up the cross road there are no houses for quite a ways.

And even if that lamp were operational, the site still would be deserted, isolated, and very private.

Her body was not out in the open. There is a dropoff about 2 feet from the edge of the pavement, and it drops off about 2 to 2-1/2 feet. That appears to be where the body was left, and the body would not be visible unless you walk over to the ledge and look down.

It's my opinion that the body was well hidden, and that there were no plans to move it.

How very sad, to see this site.

 

[EntreNous]

Thanks to both SG & Star12 for the information. You both make vaild points in that it would be a gruesome task and that visually it's very isolated.

I just don't think a dog would have a problem sniffing that out. I was thinking more along the lines of odor, aerial searches and the like. I'm sorry for not being clear on that.

I would think that if a killer didn't want to get caught in their crime they'd want the body to be as decomposed as possible to destroy COD evidence, etc. Why would he put the body where it could be found in just two days?

Look at cases like this and there's a pattern of hiding the bodies very well. While NC's body was certainly out of the way, it could have easily been seen from the air and or smelled by a pet.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Why would he put the body where it could be found in just two days?

I don't think her body could have been easily seen from the air, but yes it would attract animal activity and that would be true wherever she was placed unless she was buried 6 ft deep.

I said this before, but I think it was a bit of divine intervention that a jogger and his dog just happened to run back there when they did. Believe me, it's far enough back that there is no real attraction for a walker/runner. Something made that runner go back there--and I'm calling it a bit of divine guidance.

Remember how Laci's and Connor's bodies eventually washed up on the rocks at the Berkeley part of the SF Bay? Do you realize just how VAST the SF Bay is? It is miles and miles wide and deep. What are the odds of that happening? I think there are things that cannot be logically explained, and some of these are things that help perps get caught.

 

[EntreNous]

Whoah! I just thought of something else. What if BC wanted to stage it to look random by leaving the body in the open? In enough of the open to be found quickly, within 48 to 72 hrs. He'd have to feel like he'd left her body prisitinely clean to feel that confident to play that hand.

 

[reddress58]

That site is extremely isolated. What may not be apparent from the photos is that, while facing the retention pond, the area to the left juts out and you can't see a darn thing beyond it, except for right across the cul-de-sac -- right behind your back.

That gravel mound is across the road from the beginning of this cul-de-sac road, and up the cross road there are no houses for quite a ways.

And even if that lamp were operational, the site still would be deserted, isolated, and very private.

Her body was not out in the open. There is a dropoff about 2 feet from the edge of the pavement, and it drops off about 2 to 2-1/2 feet. That appears to be where the body was left, and the body would not be visible unless you walk over to the ledge and look down.

It's my opinion that the body was well hidden, and that there were no plans to move it.

How very sad, to see this site.

Very, very well described, Star. Nail on the head.

 

[EntreNous]

I don't think her body could have been easily seen from the air, but yes it would attract animal activity and that would be true wherever she was placed unless she was buried 6 ft deep.

I said this before, but I think it was a bit of divine intervention that a jogger and his dog just happened to run back there when they did. Believe me, it's far enough back that there is no real attraction for a walker/runner. Something made that runner go back there--and I'm calling it a bit of divine guidance.

Remember how Laci's and Connor's bodies eventually washed up on the rocks at the Berkeley part of the SF Bay? Do you realize just how VAST the SF Bay is? It is miles and miles wide and deep. What are the odds of that happening? I think there are things that cannot be logically explained, and some of these are things that help perps get caught.

I guess it's just something I'd have to see with my own eyes. I thought her body was out in the open and could've been seen from above. It really looks that way from the photos.

And yes, any animal would smell the remains but I was referring to domestic animals that would be drawn to the odor and which typically come with an owner. According to leash laws anyway. Which is exactly what happened.

I'm still having a hard time understanding how an empty lot in a subdivision under construction with no brush cover, etc. and only about a mile or so from NC's own home is even close to being as remote as Laci Peterson's body being placed/anchored in SF bay.

The dog smelled the body. I don't think there's anything divine about it. They conduct studies like this all the time here in Knoxville at the FBI cadaver farm. I have a lot of friends who have studied there. This just doesn't make sense to us in our conversations we've had about NC/BC.

 

[SleuthyGal]

If you look at the maps section you can see some detailed area maps that will show you that her body was about 3 mi (I'm estimating) from her house in a more remote area than where she lived. And you can go into Google maps and see what the aerial shot looks like for that new subdivsion

She wasn't nearly as far away or as hidden as Laci's body, no, but neither was she on a well-traveled path either since it was at the very end of a yet-to-be developed subdivision about 3 miles away. And there was heavy foliage around the area--literally within 10 ft of where her body was dumped she could have been placed and very much obscured, and while a domestic or wild animal would have been attracted to the scent, she would have been even harder to spot.

I guess it's just something I'd have to see with my own eyes. I thought her body was out in the open and could've been seen from above. It really looks that way from the photos.

 

[Star12]

I guess it's just something I'd have to see with my own eyes. I thought her body was out in the open and could've been seen from above. It really looks that way from the photos.

Yes, if you are talking about from a helicopter view, the body was "in the open".

But when were the helicopters activated? I don't know the answer to that.

But from the ground, the body would not be visible to a passerby. However, the odor would have been very apparent.

It was in a relatively remote location, hidden well enough that it took 2-1/2 days to be found.

 

[EntreNous]

I'm guessing July 12 on the helicopters but I could be wrong. I know the footage of the dump site showing the investigators is from a helicopter and of course we know that to be the day of discovery.

 

[mollymalone]

If this was Brad, he needed her to be found. The location is close by, he could easily dump her and then proceed to the store or back home and have been out of the house a minimal amount of time to do it.

If there turns out to be insurance on Nancy, the body would have to be found before he could collect. If Nancy's body was hidden so that she wasn't found for quite some time he probably figured that her family would be constantly on his tail whereas if she was found and then buried his contact with them would be minimal.

Brad may be like a lot of murderers, they expect LE to believe them and not question their statements etc.

 

[Star12]

Personally, IMO, I really don't think that he cogitated much on this. I think he was working on adrenalin and thinking, "OMG OMG now what do I do? I can't leave her here. The kids, the cops, OMG gotta get her out of here" and did what he had to do. I don't think it was a planned act, but that it was a crime of passion -- he let his anger take over. After that, I think he just did what was expedient to separate himself, the children, and his home from Nancy's body.

If BC had planned this, don'tcha think he would have done a better job of it?

Brad's period of "playing nice' was just too difficult for him to sustain, and it had come to an end. I just don't think he had the commitment and engagement with his family to be the husband and father he was expected to be. I think they both wanted too much, too soon as far as lifestyle goes.

 

[2Daughters1Dog]

anywhere in this further convict BC thread, has the phase/sky location of the moon been metioned? Or to discover that would require some actual research as opposed to SWAG musings?

BTW, if street lights are functioning in one part of the neighborhood, they'd function everywhere - unless the bulb was burned out. You think someone goes around and cuts each one one every night?