FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #1 *Arrest*

[MzOpinion8d]

I'd like to see an active shooter drill done when congressional leaders are in session. Only, they wouldn't know it's just a drill. They're sitting there, completely sure they are safe because of all the safety measures in those buildings. Then suddenly, a recording of loud automatic fire starts cracking. Over and over.

They would be terrified and there would be chaos. And then maybe they'd realize how terrifying it is to potentially be a target when you're just going about your everyday routine.

 

[Tawny]

You know what would possibly help a mentally disturbed person? Healthcare. OH WAIT can't have universal access to that in this great nation.

If you want to fix it, start re-evaluating how to do that by providing help to those who need it, without whining that it's coming out of your hard earned dollars. You either care enough to help with a couple bucks a year, or you'd rather children die than ever have to pitch in.

 

[x_files]

"Im going to be a professional school shooter" That is sort of a generic type of comment, ie not a threat. I am doubtful the FBI could get a SW for the ISP that posted the comment which would explain why they could not id him. jmo

shouldn't be considered a generic threat. Should be taken seriously.

 

[x_files]

You know what would possibly help a mentally disturbed person? Healthcare. OH WAIT can't have universal access to that in this great nation.

If you want to fix it, start re-evaluating how to do that by providing help to those who need it, without whining that it's coming out of your hard earned dollars. You either care enough to help with a couple bucks a year, or you'd rather children die than ever have to pitch in.

I'm in favor of universal healthcare and all preventative measures.

 

[popsicle]

I'd like to see an active shooter drill done when congressional leaders are in session. Only, they wouldn't know it's just a drill. They're sitting there, completely sure they are safe because of all the safety measures in those buildings. Then suddenly, a recording of loud automatic fire starts cracking. Over and over.

They would be terrified and there would be chaos. And then maybe they'd realize how terrifying it is to potentially be a target when you're just going about your everyday routine.

GOP already went thru that last year, out on a ball field with nowhere to hide and real bullets.

 

[Hatfield]

"Im going to be a professional school shooter" That is sort of a generic type of comment, ie not a threat. I am doubtful the FBI could get a SW for the ISP that posted the comment which would explain why they could not id him. jmo

I respect your opinion and you could be right. My opinion is they didnt even try. Maybe a reporter in the news will dig into this more to find out what more, if anything, they did.

 

[Boodles]

No nation on the face of the Earth, other than the US of A, has children who with grotesque frequency slaughter other children at school.

Is there something completely unique and wrong about how Americans raise their children, or about how Americans deal with mental illness?

Every other nation on the face of the Earth has troubled children, and the peoples of many nations on the face of the Earth have FAR fewer resources and wealth and yet their children do not go to school and commit massacres of other children.

What could possibly be the difference?

Simple: access to weapons, and I’m not talking about knives and clubs

 

[gitana1]

Oh, yall. I wish we did not have to have this thread here today. I have so much to say, and yet, no words seem right.

I will just say that I honestly think I know the key. To get back to truly teaching and living through love, respect, non-judgment, and kindness. When in doubt- choose kindness! It can all be summed up in one phrase- DO NO HARM! That's it. But the problem is that as I read facebook comments, I realize those in charge of teaching and setting examples (adults/ parents) are the worst of all. Until adults get back to treating people with respect, our children will be lost.

Yes, mental health has a place, too. I worked in the trenches of mental health for a long time. But the bigger issue in society is lack of respect for other humans.

Today is one of those days that I am overly glad I homeschool my chikd. It is really easy for people to judge my situation (see... there it is again... being judged rather than being met with kindness). But, as my child was home today, putting together a Star Wars lego kit and making a homemade heart pizza, I cried for the parents and the students who were running out that building, with too many left behind who did not make it. Watching them run down the street with their hands up brought tears to my eyes. Something they have clearly practiced, when all that should be practiced in school is for the play they are having. My son went to school for a while and he told me they had to hide in the bathroom with the lights off and be silent, even while people would bang on the door. He said his teachers would quietly song in the dark. He was 3. I couldn't believe what my baby was training for. It is just terrifying.

Today and for as long as you can- remember to respond to others with kindness and love. We have to turn this world around. Laws and detectors and doctors can all be there. But we all play a part in the mental health of our people. We really do.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Of course we all need more kindness. But do you think that's the main issue? You said we need to "get back" to that time. But IMO schools are kinder than they've ever been, frankly.

Bullying is discussed all the time. Things like slam books are no longer allowed. There is zero tolerance for fighting. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's it was downright brutal. The bullying and harassment was relentless, ruthless, outright and completely ignored.

I had to physically fight from fifth through ninth grades just to survive the day. In high school a group of kids showed up wearing KKK costumes for Halloween and were proudly featured in the YEARBOOK with the caption, "a few students looking for a little mischief."

Sexism, racism and homophobia were rampant and completely accepted by staff.

Still, we didn't have the number of shootings we have today.

And not everyone can homeschool. Nor does that protect you for life. A few of the shootings were at colleges- Virginia Tech, the Oregon community college shooting for example.

Or at placed of employment. Or military bases. Or even church.

The causes of this are complex. Mental health is undoubtedly not just one of those things that has a small place in the conversation. It seems like one of the glaring main issues. As we've read, all these murderers had depression of some sort. Behavioral issues. Psychopaths. Psychotics. Neurological issues. Etc.

They fuel one another. They find a way to be known and achieve vengeance.

So far it appears this guy was shown great kindness from his parents, especially his mom who was devoted to him but in over his head. He was in JROTC and accepted there. He had friends who took him into their home after his parents died. He had a job and was "well-liked".

This was in this guy's head. He seems to have been hard wired, showing intense behavioral issues since childhood. It's just not an easy fix. None of it is.

 

[watergirl62]

Our society slays me with all the ways we ensure that a shooter like this becomes an "other". Oh he had mental issues, he's not like me. He was a loner, he's not like me. He is an immigrant, he's not like me. Every situation becomes an isolated incident that happened in a vacuum, rather than a symptom of a broken, toxic society. And then we say we need God in our lives like praying has ever helped.

Truth is, these shooters are generally born just like the rest of us, with a clean, sane slate. Over time, they are abused, neglected, isolated, bullied, told to be something they aren't, told they are this that or the other. Society raises these boys to be the violent, aggressive, hate-filled men they are. That's the bottom line. Look around us, we shame children for expressing themselves. We tell boys to "man up" and stop crying. We don't let boys wear pink. We call effeminate men "sissies."

We refuse to acknowledge that times today are not the same as they were 50-100 years ago. We refuse to acknowledge our own role in things like this. How we perpetuate it in hundreds of ways every day and that "crazy" people like this guy will take all those little microaggressions and internalize them and take them out on innocent schoolkids.

We have to start by recognizing that we as a society are part of the problem. If we can't even do that, we will NEVER solve this problem. All, JMO. Obviously.

ETA: (sorry... I meant to 'reply with quote' to a post up thread)


THIS! Exactly.

Everyone rushes to label these criminals as 'disturbed' or 'mentally ill' -- because we are too afraid to acknowledge and accept that we are all capable of depravity.
If we can find something -- anything -- that makes these guys different from us somehow, we don't have to admit that a "normal" human being could do this. We can continue to lie to ourselves with false reassurances that this will never happen to me because "I don't know anyone like that" or "I would have seen the signs if that had been me". Sure, ignorance might be bliss. But it's still ignorant. In these situations, ignorance is also incredibly dangerous.

Yep. Bringing this forward. THIS! X2

 

[gitana1]

Simple: access to weapons, and I’m not talking about knives and clubs

Health care is a huge issue too. And the overall culture. Which makes certain things valued and seen as macho and cool.

 

[CARIIS]

good or bad, not sure. Many seem incapable emotionally to grow up. Not exactly sure what's causing it. Our local HS has 21 years old students in it. Seems a bit too old. Maybe at when they turn 19 they should contiune their education at Community College or special HS?

There full no room

Yes, I totally agree.

I got the impression that LE just did not do any extra legwork to trace the IP address of the SM postings. They do it in other crimes so surely they could have found out who that person was. I took it like once they asked the reporter if he knew him and he said no that LE gave up and didnt do any more work on it.

That is unacceptable on LE part if that is all they did once they were notified of those threatening SM posts from him. At minimum they should have IDd him and paid him and his parent(s) a visit.

sme answer money no resources

 

[abr]

This post is one of the most offensive, hateful things I've ever read here. Just appalling.

What is so offensive and hateful about it? I thought we were having a discussion on how to stop creating kids who kill. I gave my experience and my idea. What is hateful about that? I really want to know.

 

[Hatfield]

A clarification: an AR 15 is not an automatic weapons. Automatic weapons are not readily available in the US. Obtaining one is an expensive and onerous prospect, as it should be.

AR 15 stands for ArmaLite Rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950's. It is a semi-auto. One trigger pull, one bullet fired.

The exception would be if he had a bumpstock. I haven't heard anything about a bumpstock in the press.

Bumpstocks were legalized during the Obama administration, ostensibly to aid disable hunters. They should have been made illegal a year ago, after Pulse.

Re BBM

Thank you for bringing up the bumpstocks. We have not heard that this shooter used them but in the Mandalay Las Vegas shooting that perp used them.

My goodness. Up until the Mandalay shooting I would have swore that it was difficult to illegally convert a semi automatic into basically a fully automatic weapon.

The Bumpstock effectively made his weapons fully automatic even though it technically was still a semi automatic.

I agree that bumpstocks need to be outlawed. It is crazy when I saw how they worked and how easy it is to put one on a weapon. I am still shocked over it.

ETA You can find Youtube videos how they work. The easiest way I can describe how they work is like when you dribble a basketball and then get your hand closer and closer to the ground how the ball bounces back up to your hand and the ball seems to take a life of its own and bounces crazily. Sort of like that. The bumpstocks use the centifugal force and power of the shot going off to allow the next shot to go off.

They work on Newtons 3rd law
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[Hope32]

Don't know if it's been posted or not but so far we have 2 names. https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/964123098554527749

Also, I received an e-mail from my university about another victim of the shooting. I won't post that name as it's not MSM, but he was going to be an incoming freshman at University of Indianapolis and recruited for swimming.

 

[x_files]

There full no room



sme answer money no resources

depressing.

 

[gitana1]

ETA: (sorry... I meant to 'reply with quote' to a post up thread)


THIS! Exactly.

Everyone rushes to label these criminals as 'disturbed' or 'mentally ill' -- because we are too afraid to acknowledge and accept that we are all capable of depravity.
If we can find something -- anything -- that makes these guys different from us somehow, we don't have to admit that a "normal" human being could do this. We can continue to lie to ourselves with false reassurances that this will never happen to me because "I don't know anyone like that" or "I would have seen the signs if that had been me". Sure, ignorance might be bliss. But it's still ignorant. In these situations, ignorance is also incredibly dangerous.

They aren't normal. Normal people don't do things like this. Ever. Pretty much all of them suffer from depression of some sort. Some are also psychopathic, psychotic, suffering from neurological issues, etc.

Of course MANY people suffer from various issues and almost none do this. So yeah, something happens to make them cross over to the dark side. Probably some things. Plural.

And I think sometimes the signs are very obvious and sometimes we can't tell at all.

Reminds me of my young neighbor. He was absolutely a future killer in the making. He shot our windows with BB guns. He put laquer all over the hood of a neighbors car. He put a hose through another neighbor's mail slot, causing thousands of dollars in flood damage. He vandalized mailboxes. A kitten he had been near ended up writhing and dying minutes after he was seen walking away. He put various bugs on the spines of an potted catus, alive, like some macabre decoration. He dressed all in black and ran through the neighborhood carrying a paper bag. At 10 at night. I found him begging with a sign on the side of the road @ 6:00 pm one evening. He was a pathological liar. He stole constantly.

All of this was between the ages of 8-12. I mean I thought it was hopeless.

His parents are dear family friends. They spoiled the hell out of their kids and gave them a lot of stuff but were warm and not abusive.

Today he is in his early 30's, works full time, has zero criminal record, lives with his fiancée, has a sweet, kind smile, is funny and smart and gives the strongest, warmest hugs. He cried at my dad's funeral.

I don't know how we can tell. How we can ever truly understand.

 

[CARIIS]

Exactly. He probably could have had a valid charge against him and put in jail for a bit of time just based on things he posted in SM.

Im just so frustrated that NOTHING is done. We have to start doing some things. Sure it wont stop all of them but stopping some of them is a huge accomplishment in my book.

Folks with Dementia get extremely violent


would anyone advocate putting gma in the slammer for being sick

identical

it is an illness

jail is a deterrent for people who have the cognitive ability to know and understand that

In this country we have been locking up the
mentally ill for decades

look where it got us..................

Cruz usually kept to himself but "once given the opportunity, he liked to talk," said Brandon Minoff, a senior who was assigned to a group project with Cruz during sophomore year.

"He always just seemed very quiet and strange," Minoff said.

Minoff tried to avoid Cruz, he said, "but when I got assigned to work with him, he started talking to me."

"He told me how he got kicked out of two private schools. He was held back twice. He had aspirations to join the military. He enjoyed hunting," the high school senior said.

http://www.weny.com/story/37509320/w...t-nikolas-cruz

Cruz appears to have been involved in the high school's Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps program, as his name is listed under several awards in 2016, including academic achievement for maintaining an A grade in JROTC and Bs in other subjects.

He also was awarded for presenting an outstanding appearance and outstanding conduct throughout school.

starting to wonder if we may have someone with a similar name as it relates to ROTC?????

 

[x_files]

They aren't normal. Normal people don't do things like this. Ever. Pretty much all of them suffer from depression of some sort. Some are also psychopathic, psychotic, suffering from neurological issues, etc.

Of course MANY people suffer from various issues and almost none do this. So yeah, something happens to make them cross over to the dark side. Probably some things. Plural.

And I think sometimes the signs are very obvious and sometimes we can't tell at all.

Reminds me of my young neighbor. He was absolutely a future killer in the making. He shot our windows with BB guns. He put laquer all over the hood of a neighbors car. He put a hose through another neighbor's mail slot, causing thousands of dollars in flood damage. He vandalized mailboxes. A kitten he had been near ended up writhing and dying minutes after he was seen walking away. He put various bugs on the spines of an potted catus, alive, like some macabre decoration. He dressed all in black and ran through the neighborhood carrying a paper bag. At 10 at night. I found him begging with a sign on the side of the road @ 6:00 pm one evening. He was a pathological liar. He stole constantly.

All of this was between the ages of 8-12. I mean I thought it was hopeless.

His parents are dear family friends. They spoiled the hell out of their kids and gave them a lot of stuff but were warm and not abusive.

Today he is in his early 30's, works full time, has zero criminal record, lives with his fiancée, has a sweet, kind smile, is funny and smart and gives the strongest, warmest hugs. He cried at my dad's funeral.

I don't know how we can tell. How we can ever truly understand.

How did he get help?

 

[gitana1]

Re BBM

Thank you for bringing up the bumpstocks. We have not heard that this shooter used them but in the Mandalay Las Vegas shooting that perp used them.

My goodness. Up until the Mandalay shooting I would have swore that it was difficult to illegally convert a semi automatic into basically a fully automatic weapon.

The Bumpstock effectively made his weapons fully automatic even though it technically was still a semi automatic.

I agree that bumpstocks need to be outlawed. It is crazy when I saw how they worked and how easy it is to put one on a weapon. I am still shocked over it.

ETA You can find Youtube videos how they work. The easiest way I can describe how they work is like when you dribble a basketball and then get your hand closer and closer to the ground how the ball bounces back up to your hand and the ball seems to take a life of its own and bounces crazily. Sort of like that. The bumpstocks use the centifugal force and power of the shot going off to allow the next shot to go off.

They work on Newtons 3rd law
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The shooting we heard in a video did not sound automatic, IMO. What do you think?

 

[chihuahua]

An AR-15 will easily shoot through a door or most walls.
.223 rounds will penetrate through at least 12 solid pine boards.
jmo