FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #1 *Arrest*

[Audrey Horne]

The Associated Press
@AP
The Latest: The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahasse
https://apnews.com/amp/892a28db92924e2faa15e7b90a5b843f?__twitter_impression=true

The Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights watchdog, told ABC News they have information they believe to be credible linking Nikolas Cruz, the Florida school shooting suspect, to a white supremacist group called Republic of Florida.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-school-shooting-suspect/story?id=53092753

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says/
The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.

"Israel said Cruz's digital profile contains disturbing content that included a variety of gun- and violence-related posts on social media. A user going by the name of Nikolas Cruz also included slurs against blacks and Muslims in his posts and expressed a desire to kill anti-fascist protesters."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting-suspect/index.html

"PARKLAND, Fla. (AP) — The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.

Jordan Jereb told The Associated Press on Thursday that his group wants Florida to become its own white ethno-state. He said his group holds "spontaneous random demonstrations" and tries not to participate in the modern world."

http://newsok.com/white-supremacist...il&utm_email=7356714683d1ab0eaa5f0220e09bc887

THIS IS DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/florida-school-shooting-suspect-wore-12030404

 

[abr]

It's offensive to imply people can't or won't have values without religion and it's offensive to suggest the we shouldn't have religious freedom in the USA.


ETA it's offensive to imply children with special needs shouldn't have those needs met or their needs aren't real as valid.

That is not what I said, at all. I don't think that you are interested in discussing this with me. That is fine.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I believe they extended the age to keep teens from getting into more trouble unsupervised.

It was more to do with the idea that in a world becoming ever more complex, ever more education was the appropriate way to prepare young people for it and for the workplace.

Right up until around 1970, at least 30% of jobs in the UK were unskilled or semi-skilled - labourers, lorry drivers, postmen, carpet fitters, factory workers and suchlike. A boy could leave school without qualifications and go straight into work, albeit often fairly menial, and expect to bring home a wage for the whole of his working life. Since around 1970 we've seen a shift from physical work into office and admin work, we've see factories close and manufacturing moved abroad, we've seen gangs of labourers on construction projects replaced by machinery. The jobs that employed working class boys and men from the age of 14 or 15 upwards have gone and the new jobs can't really be done without additional skills in literacy, maths and now IT. We forget, though, that very many young people just don't have the aptitude for essentially academic learning. Some never learn to read, others never master even basic maths, yet increasingly we expect them to stay on at school and even go to college/university whether they have the ability to do so or not.

Ironically, teens seem to get into more trouble now despite (or maybe because of) our keeping them in school longer, preventing them growing up and becoming adults, instead of letting those of them who aren't suited to extended education go out into the world and find their own place.

 

[CARIIS]

The Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights watchdog, told ABC News they have information they believe to be credible linking Nikolas Cruz, the Florida school shooting suspect, to a white supremacist group called Republic of Florida.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-school-shooting-suspect/story?id=53092753

from this mom died a sudden and painful death from the flu

If autism confirmed -- they totally need sameness the sudden disappearance of one thing that had been in his life is super reason for rapid decompensation

going to live in a strange place with new
people is a terror for these folks

that was very significant learning IMO

sudden death of only stablizing and probably loving figure in this guys life

anyone know the date of the post that FBI was called on

we should check out the dates of some of the SM media stuff and see if there is escalation around Oct Nov

 

[galiuro]

Just starting to read articles about this massacre on the Spanish newspapers and a question asked by one of the readers has made me wonder the same.

He asks how this is possible that a boy who had been known to be dangerous -pictures of animal torture, disturbing comments on SM- obsessed about firearms and that several girls in his classroom had complained about his behaviour towards them was allowed to join military training.

https://elpais.com/internacional/2018/02/15/actualidad/1518675927_531457.html

Here in Europe many of us are pretty shocked that military training is even covered in high schools, is this a new development -I mean did these programmes start in recent years- or these training courses for minors have been going on for quite some time?

I would love to see someone open a thread in the area on this website where other issues -not cases- can be discussed so that we could discuss the-subject-that-shall-not-be-named which actually happens to be the key element to stop these horrific tragedies from happening.
Thank you.

JROTC has been going on for quite a while and it isn't true 'military training' or at least it wasn't in my sons' Air Force version. The kids did not learn how to shoot a gun. They marched, yes, and yea they had rifles, again, plugged and used for marching drills. I honestly thought it was a good thing for my sons as it gave them a place to belong, which is pretty important when one is in high school. My oldest son used it for extra flight time as he was in a pilot program the school had at the time.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Sounds to me she couldn't handle him on her own w/o her husband.

If so he was clearly already out of control at the age of 6.

 

[CoolJ]

Depressing isn’t even the word for it. No money or resources for simple things like education and healthcare but there is buckets of money to fund never ending trillion dollar wars..... please

 

[Gardenista]

from this mom died a sudden and painful death from the flu

If autism confirmed -- they totally need sameness the sudden disappearance of one thing that had been in his life is super reason for rapid decompensation

going to live in a strange place with new
people is a terror for these folks

that was very significant learning IMO

sudden death of only stablizing and probably loving figure in this guys life

anyone know the date of the post that FBI was called on

we should check out the dates of some of the SM media stuff and see if there is escalation around Oct Nov

Vlogger Ben Bennight reported it directly to the FBI on Sept. 24, 2017, and spoke with agents the next day, telling them he didn’t know the poster, according to BuzzFeed.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

From the linked story (and there is a lot to digest at that link!!!:

(bbm)

A Mississippi bail bondsman named Benjamin Bennight says he alerted the FBI last September after someone using the screen name "Nikolas Cruz" posted a comment on his YouTube channel saying: "Im going to be a professional school shooter."

(snip)

The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.

Jereb told The Associated Press on Thursday that his group, the Republic of Florida, wants Florida to become its own white ethno-state. He said his group holds "spontaneous random demonstrations" and tries not to participate in the modern world.

He also said he had "trouble with a girl" and he believed the timing of the attack, carried out on Valentine's Day, wasn't a coincidence.

Jereb said he didn't know Cruz personally and that "he acted on his own behalf of what he just did and he's solely responsible for what he just did."

(snip)

A Florida sheriff says there was an armed officer on campus at the time of a deadly high school shooting.

(snip)

Gov. Matt Bevin told talk radio hosts his heart is truly broken for the people of Florida and the community has been shattered in a similar way that Kentucky was in January. He said guns are not the reason for increase in school shootings, but blamed a culture that delegitimizes life through violent video games, TV shows and music lyrics.

(snip)

Florida Gov. Rick Scott says he'll sit down with state leaders and work on how they can make sure people with mental illness aren't able to get guns.

​

The Associated Press
@AP
The Latest: The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahasse
https://apnews.com/amp/892a28db92924e2faa15e7b90a5b843f?__twitter_impression=true

 

[gitana1]

This is WS -- we want to know everything !!


Hysterical out of room these noises that only way to describe is flatulence sounding

I am the only human being here and I am fine and lady love bug

It kept going I was like good lord I better go check on her!!

It was some video of a infant like snoring in some commercial!!

Sounds to me she couldn't handle him on her own w/o her husband.

Its not that easy

watch for 100 secs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yTvaqw9M8g

You never know when it will happen how long it will last

just do 30 secs -- your alone with him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4PTf7LgsIE

This shooter was no where near as disabled as those kids. He was verbal and could walk around, drive, hold a job and socialize.

 

[Hatfield]

JROTC has been going on for quite a while and it isn't true 'military training' or at least it wasn't in my sons' Air Force version. The kids did not learn how to shoot a gun. They marched, yes, and yea they had rifles, again, plugged and used for marching drills. I honestly thought it was a good thing for my sons as it gave them a place to belong, which is pretty important when one is in high school. My oldest son used it for extra flight time as he was in a pilot program the school had at the time.

Agree.
They had it in my school growing up which was many years ago
The ROTC program as I knew it was a program that allowed kids that had a possible aspiration to maybe join the military upon graduation from high school to join ROTC to learn more about the military.

I almost joined ROTC myself at the time. The kids that did join it seemed like it was a very positive experience for them. And they never felt forced to join the military after graduation as many just did ROTC and that was it after they graduated. Some went on to join the military too.

They always seemed like a nice group and were disciplined kids with few issues coming out of that group at school. All the issues we had at school were with other typical cliques most schools have.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The FBI should have been able to find him via ISP address.

Agreed. That's pretty basic. If the FBI can't manage that they might as well pack up and go home.

 

[CARIIS]

This was just linked

has a lot of inside cell phone stuff

do feel need to say not gory but rough to watch

i thought this the first time i saw the one last night

these are kids

LE goes not need to come in screaming at the top of lungs - it has been hours -- you guys are in teams pick one to talk having a bunch of guys aiming machine guns at kids screaming is not helpful

it was quiet a nice before entering "this is police we are coming PLEASE lay down on the floor and put your hands up thank you"

they had just been through a lot of auditory overstimulation screaming at the top of their lungs and a bunch of em pointing machine guns at kids is not necc

jeezzzz moo

their kids they scared the hell out of me

 

[Betty P]

The Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights watchdog, told ABC News they have information they believe to be credible linking Nikolas Cruz, the Florida school shooting suspect, to a white supremacist group called Republic of Florida.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-school-shooting-suspect/story?id=53092753

Another one. There have been far too many of these lately. I know it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but DHS and FBI need to ramp up their efforts to weed out these groups online. They're more dangerous in the US than foreign terrorist groups.

 

[CoolJ]

None at all, and nobody did.

But people did do things to TRY and intervene

 

[CARIIS]

The shooting we heard in a video did not sound automatic, IMO. What do you think?

Is that why it was so loud

it was so loud

 

[x_files]

He didnt! None. He grew out of it! As a teen he was better although he did raise hell a bit. Eggs. Lots of eggs. Tepeed houses.

He has empathy today but not too much. Like many men. He seems totally normal.

Interestingly, his brother who was always the sweet one and didn't get into as much trouble, is a total drug addict and leech. He can't hold a job and is totally entitled. He's mostly homeless now but very grandiose. Manipulated an old man out of tends of thousands before the guy died. (The old man was not a good person and had no heirs so I don't cry too much about that, but still..).

Egging and teepeeing a house is just pranks. The other things you mentioned seemed more serious, harming a kitten, extreme vandalism.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I'm in favor of universal healthcare and all preventative measures.

The UK has universal healthcare but the NHS cannot handle the burden that mental health problems present, regardless of how much money is thrown at the problem.

Mental health is not like a dodgy gallbladder that can be removed, nor even like cancer which can either be cured or kills someone within a few years. Many mental health problems are intractable and resistant to treatment and cannot be cured. You cannot keep the mentally ill permanently locked up, yet all too often when released back into the community they stop taking their meds, deteriorate and end up back in hospital - a cycle that can go on for years and cost vast amounts of money and resources trying to contain it.

 

[x_files]

What crime would it be and what sentence? And how long could they hold him for? 72 hours? How long, legally, can they be held?

I mean perhaps we need to create systems that allow people like this to be held and assessed and diagnosed with something and then de-gunned and forbidden from having any.

That wouldn't stop the issue totally though. We've seen people not allowed to possess guns who had them anyhow and went on sprees.

Threatening to commit mass murder.

 

[flourish]

I know that my opinion will not be a popular one, but I think that taking God out of our schools, country, and lives has a lot to do with it. Also, we, as a country have embraced the victim mentality instead of personal responsibility ( both the responsibility of the parents and the children). I grew up in the 60's and 70's and I went to school with the same 90 kids from K-12. There were some crazy guys, one who lived across the street from me. He had ADHD, for sure, but no accommodations or excuses were made for him. He was expected to do well in school and expected to behave, neither of which he did very well. BUT there were consequences for his actions and for his poor school work. He is highly successful today, and he will tell you that it was that little bit of fear of God, his father, teachers, and law enforcement that kept him from going too far. He had access to guns and was a druggie and broke into homes for a while. He was picked on in school, but often times that was because he picked on a girl (me) and another random guy would step in and punch him. I actually got called to the principal's office one time because he was punching me which led to him being punched several times. He tried to tell the principal that I caused him to be beat up. Principal wasn't having any of that nonsense. He never bothered me again.
I don't know that personal responsibility and accountability is the complete answer, ( as I said, I believe we need God), but it sure cannot hurt. No one is ever happy when they think they are a victim and wronged somehow. That line of thinking brings anger and rage with it.

JMO

It's offensive to imply people can't or won't have values without religion and it's offensive to suggest the we shouldn't have religious freedom in the USA.


ETA it's offensive to imply children with special needs shouldn't have those needs met or their needs aren't real as valid.

bolded and underlined by me, for emphasis

Lamenting that "god was taken out of schools" is not supportive of freedom of religion.

Implying accommodations for children with special needs is making excuses or not having appropriate expectations is offensive.

If a person isn't willing or able to note the issue, then discussing it likely is moot and pointless, true.