FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

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SuziQ said:
Remember this case?

Father murdered in front of 8 year old daughter for standing up for skateboarders
Father murdered in front of 8 year old daughter for standing up for skateboarders - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article1124957.ece

(snip)
In Dooley's case in Hillsborough, the Sheriff's Department says he carried a gun as he confronted a boy riding a skateboard on a basketball court. The episode ended with 41-year-old David James shot dead. He had been playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter when he and Dooley argued over the skateboarding.
In responding to the incident, the Sheriff's Office had to follow state law that forbids police from detaining a suspect who acts in self-defense. Deputies had to exclude the likelihood that Dooley was standing his ground under Florida law before they could legally arrest him. And the "stand your ground" law is so broad and vague that as long as a person is doing nothing illegal, he can kill another person if he is reasonably put in fear of great bodily harm — even if the victim is unarmed.
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TY, Suzi, for posting this as I had forgotten about this case. From the link (bolded and underlined by me):

In responding to the incident, the Sheriff's Office had to follow state law that forbids police from detaining a suspect who acts in self-defense. Deputies had to exclude the likelihood that Dooley was standing his ground under Florida law before they could legally arrest him.

This is the same reason why Sanford PD have stated they haven't arrested Zimmerman. I have searched FL statutes and haven't found anything that supports this, but maybe this is how LE is interpreting the Stand Your Ground Law? Note that the shooter in the above case WAS charged with manslaughter is currently using the Stand Your Ground law to defend himself in court. Why can't they do the same with Zimmerman?
 
chefmom said:
According to this, GZ's father is a magistrate for the VIrginia Supreme Court! Could this be why he hasn't been arrested?


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/rallies-continue-support-17-year-old-trayvon-marti/nLXJ7/
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Thanks, also from your link:

The students and an attorney demanded a meeting with the State Attorney's Office, which was granted.

After more than an hour, they walked out and said one of the top attorneys, Pat Whitaker, told them they're considering manslaughter charges.
Click to expand...


State Attorney Norm Wolfinger will decide if Zimmerman should be charged, or he could send the case to a grand jury to make the decision.

National law enforcement experts have questioned the Sanford Police Department's investigation into the shooting.

Experts said comments from the recently released 911 calls make them question whether Zimmerman was drunk or on drugs during the shooting.

"It really concerns me that Mr. Zimmerman appears adamant about pursuing Trayvon Martin with not really sufficient cause," said former FBI Special Agent Brad Garrett.
Click to expand...
 
chefmom said:
According to this, GZ's father is a magistrate for the VIrginia Supreme Court! Could this be why he hasn't been arrested?


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/rallies-continue-support-17-year-old-trayvon-marti/nLXJ7/
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Zimmerman said his father was a magistrate for Virginia Supreme Court and mother was a deputy court clerk.
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OMG, this is significant if true! :what:

On the other hand, if it came out of GZ's mouth then I won't believe it until it's confirmed by an unbiased source. Like anyone other than the SPD, for example.

As former officers of the court, his parents should be doubly ashamed, IMO.
 
jjenny said:
Unless they can do a voice analysis to determine which one was screaming, none of this is beyond a reasonable doubt. We know the two of them did fight, based on 911 calls.
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IMO It is WAYYYY beyond a reasonable doubt that if GZ had stayed in his freaking truck, and waited for LE, instead of chasing TM, if he had NOT had a loaded gun on his person, and if he had not been bent and determined to force a confrontation with this black kid walking in his neighborhood that Treyvon would be ALIVE today....That is beyond any reasonable doubt.

The very idea that you can with forethought chase down a stranger and menace them, and there is no reasoable doubt at all that is what he intended to do and what he did, he chased him, he caught him and he forced a confrontation on a scared kid who didn't even know the neighborhood well, and then he shot him, and now is claiming that none of it is his fault it is all self defense, when if he had done what a neighborhood WATCH is supposed to do and simply WATCH and then report to LE....he wouldn't have been in any danger and the kid would be alive....there is no way to make that self defense IMO.
 
Does anyone know what the point of entry for the gunshot that killed Trayvon?
 
I regularly work with 15-20 local neighborhood watch group groups via work. Just a few observations (in no particular order).

-I have never heard the head of a NW referred to as being the Captain -- all the ones I work with are called Presidents
-they operate similar to a Board of Directors and have monthly meetings and changes in leadership are voted upon by the group
-every NW President I know and the vast majority of members are seniors. That is not to say that someone in their 20s could not be an effective NW President. That is just not the norm, in my experience.
-If it is a start-up NW watch group, there is still a few core people that are working together. I have never heard of a one-member neighborhood watch group.
-they work in closely in partnership with LE -- my LE holds monthly meetings for the heads of NWs.

Again, just a few of my observations. JHMO.
 
Well, I see another day has passed and Mr. Big Shot Neighborhood Watch Captain is still roaming the streets free as a bird. Utterly disgusting. I'm so pleased to see people so fired up over the case. There has been enough injustice already and this guy needs to be put away for the rest of his life. This was a situation that was going to happen irregardless. I'm with Gitana, I fully believe this guy was looking to murder someone. This is a first degree murder case all the way, and he needs to be arrested and thrown under the jail.
 
Thanks daisy 7 and SuziQ, for info on that case. I was trying to find more about the exclusions, and happened to find this case also, don't know how it turned out:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/dec/08/judge-to-rule-on-saavedra-stand-your-ground-by/

Collier Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie said she would issue a written ruling by Jan. 17 in the defense's "Stand Your Ground" motion. If her decision favors the defense, Jorge Saavedra would be immune from further criminal prosecution and civil suits in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno.........

The burden of proof was on the defense during this hearing to prove Saavedra was justified in using "deadly force" as stated in Florida's "Stand Your Ground" statute. In this motion, the defense had to show a preponderance of evidence, unlike a jury trial where the state would have to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.......

Defense: "My client had two choices: fight or flight. ... He attempted to escape," Day said. "He was cornered a second time. He picked fight ... using the force necessary to stop the action."

The matchup of fists versus a knife is the root of the problem, the prosecution argued. Retaliating with punches would be meeting "force with force" in a classic legal definition of self-defense, they said.

Absence of bruising or other physical injuries to Saavedra from the punches meant there "was no danger of Jorge being maimed that day, being permanently disable, being killed. ... Nowhere near that," Assistant State Attorney Tom Gorman III said. "The defendant went so far beyond what was reasonable that day."

GZ also met supposed force from TM with excessive force, and was not in danger of serious injury/death. That's why the SPD and GZ emphasized his 'injuries' but a little cut on the back of his head (or smeared blood) do not meet the standard for being maimed, permanently disabled or killed on his part by Trayvon. He was still standing and pacing afterwards, so he was not that injured, and I've never seen anything but their statements to say he was injured, no hospital, doctor reports.
 
Isabelle said:
Does anyone know what the point of entry for the gunshot that killed Trayvon?
Click to expand...

Couldn't find it now, but I read somewhere that he was shot in the stomach...not sure if that is correct.
 
When I first read about this case, I wondered if GZ's injuries were self-inflicted. I know he could have fallen, they may have scuffled, but I still wish someone had examined GZ that night and made a determination. Also should have done a blood test for alcohol, drugs in GZ's system. JMO
 
Reader said:
Thanks daisy 7 and SuziQ, for info on that case. I was trying to find more about the exclusions, and happened to find this case also, don't know how it turned out:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/dec/08/judge-to-rule-on-saavedra-stand-your-ground-by/

Collier Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie said she would issue a written ruling by Jan. 17 in the defense's "Stand Your Ground" motion. If her decision favors the defense, Jorge Saavedra would be immune from further criminal prosecution and civil suits in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno.........

The burden of proof was on the defense during this hearing to prove Saavedra was justified in using "deadly force" as stated in Florida's "Stand Your Ground" statute. In this motion, the defense had to show a preponderance of evidence, unlike a jury trial where the state would have to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.......

Defense: "My client had two choices: fight or flight. ... He attempted to escape," Day said. "He was cornered a second time. He picked fight ... using the force necessary to stop the action."

The matchup of fists versus a knife is the root of the problem, the prosecution argued. Retaliating with punches would be meeting "force with force" in a classic legal definition of self-defense, they said.

Absence of bruising or other physical injuries to Saavedra from the punches meant there "was no danger of Jorge being maimed that day, being permanently disable, being killed. ... Nowhere near that," Assistant State Attorney Tom Gorman III said. "The defendant went so far beyond what was reasonable that day."

GZ also met supposed force from TM with excessive force, and was not in danger of serious injury/death. That's why the SPD and GZ emphasized his 'injuries' but a little cut on the back of his head (or smeared blood) do not meet the standard for being maimed, permanently disabled or killed on his part by Trayvon. He was still standing and pacing afterwards, so he was not that injured, and I've never seen anything but their statements to say he was injured, no hospital, doctor reports.
Click to expand...

I can't take any credit about bringing forth the info on this case - the thanks goes to our wonderful SuziQ!
 
momshrink said:
When I first read about this case, I wondered if GZ's injuries were self-inflicted. I know he could have fallen, they may have scuffled, but I still wish someone had examined GZ that night and made a determination. Also should have done a blood test for alcohol, drugs in GZ's system. JMO
Click to expand...

I agree, I can't imagine that LE did not take him to a hospital, and or take pictures and document what they are calling his "injuries". I am still stunned that there was no test for drugs or alcohol. It appears that they simply took his statement that he had been attacked and was in fear of his life at face value and that was that.

I just don't understand how you go from chasing someone, and it is pretty clear that TM was running away (the A$$$%#$ always get away) to being in fear of your life when you have a loaded gun and the person you are chasing has iced tea and a bag of skittles....

I have severe doubt that in the circumstances as they have been claimed and shown on the 911 calls, that TM ever intentionally turned around and tried to fight with GZ...he was trying to get away....MY considered opinion still only an opinion
 
Reader said:
Couldn't find it now, but I read somewhere that he was shot in the stomach...not sure if that is correct.
Click to expand...

This report says he was shot in the chest, it would be helpful to know if it was a close contact wound or not, among other things that we will never be able to find out now because nobody thought to even document those thing that night or they are just not going to release the information without being forced to by the Courts.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/lawsuit-filed-neighborhood-watch-shooting-15888368
 
jjenny said:
Unless they can do a voice analysis to determine which one was screaming, none of this is beyond a reasonable doubt. We know the two of them did fight, based on 911 calls.
Click to expand...

LOL! Never underestimate a 'moms' voice analysis. I can pick out all 3 of my boys screams and cries in a room filled with other kids.

The fact that Trayvon's mom left the room hysterical after hearing her boy cry for help on the 911 tape, is all I need to know.
 
I took about a day and a half away from commenting on this thread and I have decompressed enough to continue.

I asked earlier about blood tests on Zimmerman when he went to get checked out because I questioned whether he was tweaked out on drugs that night. Glad to see it's being brought up in the media now. Not that it can be proven? :banghead:

I always knew Zimmerman had to be connected. Thanks to those who dug up the information about his parents "connections." No doubt Zimmerman made sure to mention that early on while talking to deputies that night. He was one of "them" in all ways except for a the badge or car. I wouldn't be surprised if they were calling each other "brother" by the end of whatever they investigated?

Learning more about Zimmerman's character, I am more convinced than ever that Tray was murdered. Hunted down like an animal and shot to death.

R.I.P. Tray! I'm praying super hard for you and your family!
 
This poor young man,he looks so much younger than 17 ,his poor mother watching her broke my heart. I am so upset and disturbed by this whole case. this watch captain has had 22 days if freedom that he does not deserve. After watching JVM I am disgusted at LE response.
 
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