GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #1 *Arrests*

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Good posts, here. I just thought I'd throw out a couple of ideas from my partially informed imagination. First, what does everyone think of the possibility that the shooter followed Dan Home and just parked quickly and ran up to Dan and shot? The other is, what if it was someone in the neighborhood who could just watch for his arrival?
 
snowleopard, as far as someone following him, parking quickly, and running up to shoot Dan--it comes down to a couple things. First, how long was it between Dan saying, "Someone is in my driveway," to the shot. If it was only a few seconds, then I think it means Dan was in his garage having just pulled in, he saw someone in one of his mirrors approaching his car, and then the shot was taken. In that case, I guess it's at least possible somebody followed him and when Dan pulled into the garage, the shooter pulled to the curb, and then came up the driveway for the shot.

However, if it was several seconds, like 15 seconds, I am more inclined to believe Dan saw the shooter before he pulled into his driveway. So Dan is out on the street, sees the shooter, makes the comment on the phone, pulls onto his driveway then into his garage, and the shooter follows him in. This would mean several more seconds between the statement and the shot.

But we don't know the timeframe between statement and shot so it's tough to say. The problem is at this point we don't know where Dan was when he said, "Someone is in my driveway." All it means is, well, someone was in his driveway--but we can't derive Dan's POV from that.

Also, when I hear someone say, "Someone is in my driveway," it sounds to me like Dan has no idea who the person is. This leads me to believe he didn't have any kind of road rage incident before coming home. It's not a certainty but at least a probability. If it were a road rage adversary, I would think Dan would've said, "The guy I almost ran into is in my driveway." You know what I mean? And I think he might've shown a little more apprehension in his voice. And to this point, it sounds to me like Dan said, "Someone is in my driveway," like any person would--with a bit of curiosity but no fear . . . yet. Once again, though, the only person who could judge Dan's demeanor in saying that sentence was the person he was talking to.

So, if he was followed, and it wasn't road rage, this goes back to the hired killer theory. Somebody might've staked out the school where Dan drops his kids off, and followed him to all those other spots before confronting Dan at his house at 11am. I guess it's possible. But with all the video cameras out there--ATM's, traffic lights, people's own home cameras, etc.--it's a bit of risk to follow a target for too long. Still possible, though.

Myself, I'm still leaning toward a person waiting at his home. <modsnip> I know we can't talk politics on here (for very good reasons) but I think Dan's shooting was politically motivated but not the way you might think. And it would fall into Razz's idea that the shooter was totally unhinged.
 
http://www.wtxl.com/news/maddox-wan...cle_50606d0a-1d61-11e4-9660-0017a43b2370.html
bbm

"ALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WTXL) -- While a dispatcher error is being blamed for a response delay in the July 18 shooting death of Florida State University Professor Dan Markel, Tallahassee City Commissioner Scott Maddox is now calling for an audit of the Consolidated Dispatch Agency to see if there are more widespread issues



http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...-calls-for-audit-of-dispatch-agency/13628493/
"Long agreed the 19-minute response time was too long, but the events that led up to it are "simply a matter of human error," he said. "This call taking is not an exact science and they happen under not ideal situations and they happen between people."

As is protocol, police secure crime scene's before EMS officials are allowed access to them."
 
snowleopard, as far as someone following him, parking quickly, and running up to shoot Dan--it comes down to a couple things. First, how long was it between Dan saying, "Someone is in my driveway," to the shot. If it was only a few seconds, then I think it means Dan was in his garage having just pulled in, he saw someone in one of his mirrors approaching his car, and then the shot was taken. In that case, I guess it's at least possible somebody followed him and when Dan pulled into the garage, the shooter pulled to the curb, and then came up the driveway for the shot.

However, if it was several seconds, like 15 seconds, I am more inclined to believe Dan saw the shooter before he pulled into his driveway. So Dan is out on the street, sees the shooter, makes the comment on the phone, pulls onto his driveway then into his garage, and the shooter follows him in. This would mean several more seconds between the statement and the shot.

But we don't know the timeframe between statement and shot so it's tough to say. The problem is at this point we don't know where Dan was when he said, "Someone is in my driveway." All it means is, well, someone was in his driveway--but we can't derive Dan's POV from that.

Also, when I hear someone say, "Someone is in my driveway," it sounds to me like Dan has no idea who the person is. This leads me to believe he didn't have any kind of road rage incident before coming home. It's not a certainty but at least a probability. If it were a road rage adversary, I would think Dan would've said, "The guy I almost ran into is in my driveway." You know what I mean? And I think he might've shown a little more apprehension in his voice. And to this point, it sounds to me like Dan said, "Someone is in my driveway," like any person would--with a bit of curiosity but no fear . . . yet. Once again, though, the only person who could judge Dan's demeanor in saying that sentence was the person he was talking to.

So, if he was followed, and it wasn't road rage, this goes back to the hired killer theory. Somebody might've staked out the school where Dan drops his kids off, and followed him to all those other spots before confronting Dan at his house at 11am. I guess it's possible. But with all the video cameras out there--ATM's, traffic lights, people's own home cameras, etc.--it's a bit of risk to follow a target for too long. Still possible, though.

Myself, I'm still leaning toward a person waiting at his home. <modsnip> I know we can't talk politics on here (for very good reasons) but I think Dan's shooting was politically motivated but not the way you might think. And it would fall into Razz's idea that the shooter was totally unhinged.

I think the person may have known Dan's address but wasn't necessarily familiar with Tallahassee. Dan couldn't be shot in the morning because he had his boys with him. Why put 2 young kids through that if you don't have to. The same being true at night. So Dan may have been followed so the shooter could determine the best time, place and opportunity to shoot him? I'd say the shooter got lucky. And I don't think that Dan necessarily went to the places listed by Tallahassee police.
Those places may have been given to police by friends and family as the most likely places he would be. I remember reading somewhere that a silver prius was spotted in a Whole Foods parking lot. Makes sense Dan would need to food shop and the return home to get groceries in the fridge.
 
UPDATE (8/6/2014, 2:05 p.m.): The Village Voice notes that Markel had been hired as an expert witness in a high-profile divorce extortion case involving allegations of violence. This has to do with the Rabbi connection.
 
bbm
"The Forward has learned that police initially investigated whether there was any link between Markel&#8217;s plans to consult in the &#8216;get&#8217; extortion case and his still-unsolved murder.

Detectives called Wolmark&#8217;s attorney Ben Brafman, a prominent criminal defense lawyer whose clients have included Sean &#8220;P. Diddy&#8221; Combs and Dominique Strauss-Kahn, to ask about Markel in the days after the murder, Brafman told the Forward.

But they appear to have quickly rejected any connection. That could have been because Markel&#8217;s tie to the case was so tangential as well as the fact that the husbands targeted in the &#8216;get&#8217; case &#8212; who might have been thought to hold a grudge against Markel &#8212; were apparently not even aware of his involvement.

A Tallahassee police spokesman said he couldn&#8217;t comment on any possible tie between Markel&#8217;s murder and the &#8216;get&#8217; case.

&#8220;We are following up on all of his associations,&#8221; Officer Scott Beck said".

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/203807/police-probe-dan-markel-link-to-get-extortion-rabb/#ixzz39uIAdW1b
 
BBM: That's why I was questioning the neighbors or even the 911 caller upthread. It really is a huge risk to be waiting around someone's house in broad daylight to shoot them. In a very nice, residential area. A neighbor walking around wouldn't seem out of place and a neighbor would be inclined to have a general idea of the comings and goings of our victim.

For a killer, it would seem more prudent to at least attempt the crime at night. And odd that only one gun shot was fired and the victim was still alive for hours. Very risky.
Very odd indeed.

And we're not really sure if the Prius was involved in the scheme of things for sure.
It could be the vehicle of an unwilling and shocked accomplice of the murderer???

End result is that nobody apparently saw the killer and the victim is dead. Head shots are not easy (smaller target than torso) but they are almost always lethal. So I presume the killer knew what he/she was doing.
 
Random thought..imo..
- We know DM was divorced, or soon to be divorced, and that DM was happy with his new relationship ...
Wondering if in between his old and new relationships, there was anyone else?
DM was easy on the eyes, respected, successful, affluent, " a nice Jewish boy", a good catch, and soon to be " on the market" ect.
Maybe he was 'scooped' a little too quickly for some other female who might have had him "ear-marked' for herself?
 
I just had to remove a number of posts.

We do not sleuth family members, ex's, relationships, friends who are not named by LE as suspects in this case.

Relationships are not to be sleuthed.
 
This almost sounds like a Mafia hit.They are brave enough to take someone out in broad daylight without a second thought.Dan seemed to be very busy and had his opinions posted everywhere.I think he really pissed off someone or a group of people.He was very outspoken in his beliefs.
 
:confused:

Do we know for sure that Dan was returning home, and pulling in his garage? Or could he have just opened the garage door and was backing out? I think a person is much more vulnerable just after opening their garage door, as they are leaving their house. If he were coming home, wouldn't he have noticed a car? :twocents:

IMHO
 
:confused:

Do we know for sure that Dan was returning home, and pulling in his garage? Or could he have just opened the garage door and was backing out? I think a person is much more vulnerable just after opening their garage door, as they are leaving their house. If he were coming home, wouldn't he have noticed a car? :twocents:

IMHO

My understanding is that he was on the phone with someone and remarked to that person that someone was in his driveway. I also read on is thread somewhere that he had been to the gym and was returning home.
 
My understanding is that he was on the phone with someone and remarked to that person that someone was in his driveway. I also read on is thread somewhere that he had been to the gym and was returning home.

Thanks for the clarification! Too bad he didn't try to close the garage door, unless he recognized a familiar face? :twocents:

IMHO
 
Thanks for the clarification! Too bad he didn't try to close the garage door, unless he recognized a familiar face? :twocents:

IMHO

This is what is stumping me. Without knowing how he said what he said to the person on the phone we can't know whether he was scared, mystified, just remarking (like, oh it's just Tom from work), or what. That's the context that's important and the police ain't saying. Not that they should at this point just to satisfy my curiosity.
 
Although probably unrelated, this caught my eye because it involved the recent shooting death, of a Rabbi in Florida. fwiw

http://www.ny1.com/content/news/213...-more-info-in-brooklyn-rabbi-s-florida-death/

"As police in Florida continue to search for the killer of a Brooklyn rabbi, they're hoping a picture of a truck will lead them to some more information".




http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...f-Brooklyn-Rabbi-Joseph-Raksin-270742101.html
"Monday, Aug 11, 2014 &#8226; Updated at 11:32 PM EDT

A makeshift memorial at the site where a rabbi was shot and killed on Saturday keeps his memory alive as police continue to search for the suspected killers.

A Miami-Dade Police chaplain said Monday that a rabbi who was shot and killed while walking to his North Miami Beach temple Saturday morning likely did not have his wallet on him."
 
This case is so odd and troubling. The middle-of-the-day shooting right in the middle of the neighborhood where anybody might have seen the murderer is one strange aspect. Then the fact that the shooter hit Markel in his jaw is interesting. One shot through the jaw - if emergency services hadn't made the mistakes that delayed their arrival, Markel should have been alive today to either identify or describe the shooter. So the shooter was either homicidal and naive about gunshots and got "lucky" in achieving the goal of killing Markel, or else the shooter was trying to silence Markel, and didn't care about anything beyond that physical silencing.

So, regardless of motivation, this obviously points to a very reckless person who's emotionally disturbed. I've heard/read police investigators say that the manner of assault tells them some things about the murderer and his/her intent. Given that Markel was so well known for his voice, particularly when he was articulating legal ideas and opinions, one possible theory might identify connections between the shot to the jaw and Markel's voice as a legal scholar.

This might lead to the anonymous website posts that were so vicious and disturbing. In addition to the threatening posts that have been widely reported, I think it's interesting that, as per news reports, Markel raised questions with various people about odd Facebook invites, etc. That said, as I recall, at least one other person responded to Markel's comments by saying similar things had happened to her. Additionally, it's a huge leap from posting vicious comments to committing a brutal assault.

I have no expertise here, but based on the limited information made publicly available, it just seems to make sense to explore the shot to the jaw as a meaningful , rather than random, aspect of this murder.
 
This case is so odd and troubling. The middle-of-the-day shooting right in the middle of the neighborhood where anybody might have seen the murderer is one strange aspect. Then the fact that the shooter hit Markel in his jaw is interesting. One shot through the jaw - if emergency services hadn't made the mistakes that delayed their arrival, Markel should have been alive today to either identify or describe the shooter. So the shooter was either homicidal and naive about gunshots and got "lucky" in achieving the goal of killing Markel, or else the shooter was trying to silence Markel, and didn't care about anything beyond that physical silencing.

So, regardless of motivation, this obviously points to a very reckless person who's emotionally disturbed. I've heard/read police investigators say that the manner of assault tells them some things about the murderer and his/her intent. Given that Markel was so well known for his voice, particularly when he was articulating legal ideas and opinions, one possible theory might identify connections between the shot to the jaw and Markel's voice as a legal scholar.

This might lead to the anonymous website posts that were so vicious and disturbing. In addition to the threatening posts that have been widely reported, I think it's interesting that, as per news reports, Markel raised questions with various people about odd Facebook invites, etc. That said, as I recall, at least one other person responded to Markel's comments by saying similar things had happened to her. Additionally, it's a huge leap from posting vicious comments to committing a brutal assault.

I have no expertise here, but based on the limited information made publicly available, it just seems to make sense to explore the shot to the jaw as a meaningful , rather than random, aspect of this murder.


Rbbm.

ITA, was about to post very similar idea, but you articulated it better!
Also wonder if the height of the shooter, had an effect on where the bullet entered victim?
 
Nothing new, just this...


http://www.jdjournal.com/2014/08/20...law-professor-dan-markel-ongoing/?hvid=4F6r4E
&#8220;We have no updates at this time. The investigation is ongoing,&#8221; said TPD spokesman Officer David Northway.

The case has been labeled as open and active, which means that the police report can be kept confidential from the public.

&#8220;We are actively investigating,&#8221; Northway added. &#8220;We will not rest until we bring this case to a close.&#8221;


<<<<<Snip>>>>>



"The law school is still coming to terms with his death and all of his classes have been canceled.

&#8220;The initial shock and deep grief has given way to more feelings of sorrow and loss,&#8221; said Manuel Utset, associate dean for academic affairs at the FSU College of Law.

&#8220;You can imagine when a tragedy like this hits, that things change,&#8221; Utset said. &#8220;No one could have imagined a month ago that something like this could occur.&#8221;
 
I have to admit: I don't know what to make of the "no new leads" in this case after a month. I have to believe if the Prius was rented, the police would've discovered the agency by now. And if they found the car rental place, then the police would have all the info on the renter at this point. And that would certainly lead to a suspect by now. Granted, it might take a while to go through every person who rented a silver/green Prius in the time around Dan's death. But rental agencies' computer systems are usually linked to each other--the police would only have to go to one office to get info for several regional franchises. Hmmmmm.

I've gone to the site Dan started and read many of his and the others writers' entries. I know some people believe it could have something to do with something Dan wrote but I doubt it. Yes, there were some very rude and threatening comments directed at Dan and others. But we all know that's not unusual on the Internet--look at any comment section on almost any news site and you'll see what I mean. Plus, the stuff they talk about on that Prawfs Blog is fairly deep and intricate. Would some political wacko really wade through all of that lawyer jargon, get ticked off, and drive to Dan's place to kill him? That theory seems kind of weak. Especially since most people who write threatening stuff on the Internet have "computer muscles"--they talk big online but they're harmless in real life.

<modsnip>

However, I will say that dotr might be onto something regarding the rabbi murdered in Miami. I think of the connection when I saw that story, too.
 
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