GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #1 *Arrests*

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So here are some things about the get in Judaism. Reformist Judaism does not require it but orthodox and conservative Judaism do. The couple was married in a reformist Judaism synagogue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/fashion/weddings/26adel.html?_r=0

https://www.cbiboca.org/about-cbi/history/

But the synagogue Dan was attending at the time of his death was a conservative Judaism synagogue:

http://www.shomreitorahonline.org/about/8-about-shomrei-torah

Wendi would need a get to be remarried in a conservative or orthodox synagogue but not a reformist one so not sure how important it would be to her. Given the contentious divorce it is possible that he may have decided not to give her the get.

Agree. In some Muslim marriages. The husband gets the wife's money and property automatically. But in our court system. This may not be recognized. So maybe the Get is not truly honored in our courts as well.

So it only has meaning to those who abide by that ideal.

But the United States court of law is what actually sticks during a divorce and not some Contract that the husband doesn't have to sign if he doesn't want to. Jmo.

But I could be wrong in how an hacidic jewish divorce or any jewish or muslim divorce works in the United States.
 
Agree. In some Muslim marriages. The husband gets the wife's money and property automatically. But in our court system. This may not be recognized. So maybe the Get is not truly honored in our courts as well.

So it only has meaning to those who abide by that ideal.

But the United States court of law is what actually sticks during a divorce and not some Contract that the husband doesn't have to sign if he doesn't want to. Jmo.

But I could be wrong in how an hacidic jewish divorce or any jewish or muslim divorce works in the United States.

Yes the get has no legal impact on civil divorces or civil remarriages it only impacts the ability to have a religious remarriage. Similar to many Catholics who get civil divorces but then also seek to have their marriage
Annulled by the Catholic Church so that they can remarry.
 
The Get gang/progfather case is very interesting but I don't see an obvious connection to the murder. Who involved in the case would have a motive to kill Dan? He had nothing to do with obtaining any of the gets nor was he involved in the collecting of the payoffs. His only role was to help one of the attorneys with some of the more technical legal issues. I doubt if any of the defendants or witnesses were aware of his involvement.

There are rumors that Dan was involved in in some sort of an exposé of corruption in the court system in Leon county. I wasn't aware that that a Law Professor would involve himself in a criminal investigation rather than the legal actions that would follow the arrest, but who knows.
 
Simply put, Chassidic Rabbis don't murder people or pay others to murder people, especially fellow Jews. As a Jew I think men who deny their wives a get absent a legitimate reason are psychological, domestic terrorists. By and large, the MAIN reason they do it is for punishment, not leverage. Any orthodox woman will tell you it IS the ultimate punishment. They are shunned by their community (which is essentially their entire world) and they can not date or move on with their lives. It's the equivalent of being physically chained & imprisoned by the husband they've divorced. A get is pretty much a non issue for the secular jew, btw. ‎

I'm not an advocate of vigilante justice but for the men who were roughed up a little, you'd be hard pressed to find me the least bit sympathetic. Still yet, the 'orthodox rogue rabbi' theory is a total red herring and I don't think its ever been seriously considered as a plausible theory. It was only a matter of how quickly the theory could be put to rest.
 
As far as the two psychopaths I know, their biggest game playing is the "poor me" game and they are good at it. IF WA is indeed a psychopath and I don't know her at all, this "poor me" game really plays out on people. I have seen many people fall for this. I just hope that is not what happened and some schmuck fell for it and did this for her. It's all a guess. She could be nothing like this at all.
 
As I mentioned at the very beginning of this thread, I didn't know Dan personally and I don't know Wendi personally, but I have many, many mutual friends in common with them. (I have something different in common with each of them individually, so have mutual friends of each of theirs). All of that is just to preface the following observation (for what it's worth): I don't actually know anyone who knows both of them who thinks WA had anything to do with this directly; even among some folks that were good friends of Dan/took his "side" post-divorce. I realize scuttlebutt can be very wrong, but I actually think that WA's perhaps ill-considered comments on that recording are a product of the fact that it's not even really within her realm of awareness that anyone might actually think she was responsible for Dan's death. Like, it's the sort of thing she would have avoided saying if she really felt any suspicion at all. (I know people have somehow analyzed her comments to mean that WA is a sociopath or something, but I think it's much more that she's somewhat blunt/awkward and it's a weird position to be in to have your ex-spouse who you essentially hated at the time of his death, but who was nevertheless the father of your two young children, be murdered.)

As a somewhat related aside, I don't find it weird or suspicious at all that she commented that this was a murder-for-hire. That has been "the word on the street" since basically day 1; again, scuttlebutt can be wrong, but (at least thus far) all of the scuttlebutt I've heard in this case has been accurate and eventually confirmed by cops. I think cops probably confirmed the murder-for-hire angle ages and ages ago and either told WA or her in laws who then told her. It's so widely discussed among mutual friends that I didn't really have the impression that it was a secret as opposed to cops just hadn't made any public statements in this case recently (until the arrest, where the murder for hire angle immediately came out).
 
As far as the two psychopaths I know, their biggest game playing is the "poor me" game and they are good at it. IF WA is indeed a psychopath and I don't know her at all, this "poor me" game really plays out on people. I have seen many people fall for this. I just hope that is not what happened and some schmuck fell for it and did this for her. It's all a guess. She could be nothing like this at all.

The psychopath I know is the exact same way. She does some pretty dastardly things too, but playing the victim card with no basis for it is her main MO. It only works until people really get to know her, though, and then they just really dislike her once they have figured her out. The charm thing only works for so long.
 
At what point (after an arrest/formal charge) is the prosecution required to disclose all their evidence to the defense? Does anyone know?
 
The Get gang/progfather case is very interesting but I don't see an obvious connection to the murder. Who involved in the case would have a motive to kill Dan? He had nothing to do with obtaining any of the gets nor was he involved in the collecting of the payoffs. His only role was to help one of the attorneys with some of the more technical legal issues. I doubt if any of the defendants or witnesses were aware of his involvement.

There are rumors that Dan was involved in in some sort of an exposé of corruption in the court system in Leon county. I wasn't aware that that a Law Professor would involve himself in a criminal investigation rather than the legal actions that would follow the arrest, but who knows.

as a professor I would think DM was limited in the work he could accept outside his tenure at FSU...at most he could probably accept work as a consultant that he was in the case of the get rabbi and probably would have been as well for the corruption case...I think big university professors have a tri-partite mission of teaching, research and community service so if he was working with Leon County I wonder if a grant of some kind was in play and/or perhaps some of his students as well? ... the get gang seems the obvious choice for a hired hit man I mean if they were promoting sadistic torture then surely they were capable of murder for hire...the more I read about the get gang the more plausible it became the ringleader could have set up DM because by the time he was murdered I'm sure those rabbis were turning on each other to get a better deal...notice DM's client ended up with less time than the prod-father himself (38 mos. vs 10 yrs)...http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2015/12/rabbi_sentenced_to_38_months_in_jail_in_extortion-.html ... and then there's the Jewish matrimonial situation which confounds me... WA and DM were at odds over her moving away and they were still fighting battles in court... she was outspoken in her dislike for him... and those rabbis were in the business of "helping" wives turn their dire situations around...so to me I wonder if they were no longer in the "get getting" business perhaps they turned to murder for hire?
 
Discovery: What and When the Prosecution Must Disclose

Is there a particular period of time prior to trial when the defense is supposed to engage in discovery?

Not really. Prosecutors can’t disclose all discovery on the eve of trial, but on the other hand, they don’t have to divulge it all way ahead of time. Discovery can unfold gradually. For example, a defendant’s attorney might receive a copy of the police report at the first court appearance, but might not receive a prosecution expert’s written analysis of blood evidence until shortly before trial.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-when-the-prosecution-must-disclose.html
 
as a professor I would think DM was limited in the work he could accept outside his tenure at FSU...at most he could probably accept work as a consultant that he was in the case of the get rabbi and probably would have been as well for the corruption case...I think big university professors have a tri-partite mission of teaching, research and community service so if he was working with Leon County I wonder if a grant of some kind was in play and/or perhaps some of his students as well? ... the get gang seems the obvious choice for a hired hit man I mean if they were promoting sadistic torture then surely they were capable of murder for hire...the more I read about the get gang the more plausible it became the ringleader could have set up DM because by the time he was murdered I'm sure those rabbis were turning on each other to get a better deal...notice DM's client ended up with less time than the prod-father himself (38 mos. vs 10 yrs)...http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2015/12/rabbi_sentenced_to_38_months_in_jail_in_extortion-.html ... and then there's the Jewish matrimonial situation which confounds me... WA and DM were at odds over her moving away and they were still fighting battles in court... she was outspoken in her dislike for him... and those rabbis were in the business of "helping" wives turn their dire situations around...so to me I wonder if they were no longer in the "get getting" business perhaps they turned to murder for hire?

You mean you think there is a possibility those rabbis did this for WA?
 
Thank you :)

In this case the records are sealed because the investigation is still on going.. so, is the prosecution required to divulge *anything,* or is the fact they obtained a warrant satisfy the legal requirement to justify the arrest/charge?

I guess what I'm wondering is if the defense could force the prosecution to disclose information which could potentially jeopardize their entire case. It seems sharing ANYthing at this point would be unwise. ‎

My understanding is that in California at least, an arrested individual must go before a Judge within 2 days for an Arraignment. The charges would be spelled out bail set but no evidence presented.

Within 30 day, a Preliminary Hearing must be set where the judge must rule whether or not there is enough evidence to send the case to trial. Enough information would have to be disclosed by the DA to convince the Judge to issue an Indictment. The standard is not very high and the DA would only have to disclose enough information
to convince the judge, not the entire case.

If there is an indictment, Discovery will proceed. The Prosecution must disclose any evidence they intend to use in the trial including all witnesses plus any exculpatory evidence. They do not have to state their theory of the case, the significance of any evidence or what testimony witnesses will give. It must be released with sufficient time for the defense to performa a full investigation. Most of the time this is part of the process of negotiating a pled bargain so the prosecution would want to demonstrate the case is rock solid.


A Gag Order can be requested by either party but it is usually the defense that request it and the only justification for one is the interest of getting a fair trial. It prevents anyone involved from talking to the press. One is not always granted and it is common for both the Defense and the Prosecution to selectively disclose evidence to the press.

In Florida, I imagine things are a little different but I would assume things play out the same general way. Little by little things will be made public. The big question is when will we find out who 5 or 6 Others are (probably when they are arrested). The evidence may not fully come out until the trial.
 
Garcia is being transferred to Tallahassee, today, according to their newspaper. I could not copy the link unless I subscribed to the paper.
 
Professor's ex-wife hopes arrest brings closure to case

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - The ex-wife of a slain Florida State University law professor says she hopes that the arrest of a South Florida man this week will finally bring some closure to the case.

Wendi Adelson, who now lives in the Miami area, said in a brief email Friday that the past two years have been an extraordinarily difficult time for her family.

Read more: http://www.fox10tv.com/story/320836...s-arrest-brings-closure-to-case#ixzz4AN7yCm3g
 
http://www.leoncountyso.com/leon-county-jail/jail-inmate-search

DisplayJISLargeImage.aspx

Name: GARCIA, SIGFREDO
SPN: 245505
Race: WHITE Sex: M
Eye Color: GRN Hair: BLK
Height: 5'11" Weight: 180
Age 34
Alias Names

LAST NAME FIRST NAME MIDDLE NAME
GARCIA SIGFREDO TUTO
GARICA SIGFREDO
GARCIA SIGFREDO T
GARCIA SAFREDE
Current Charges

CLERK CASE # OFFENSE DATE CHARGE LITERAL STATUTE BOND AMOUNT BOOKING DATE BOOKING AGENCY AGENCY REPORT # TENTATIVE RELEASE DATE
2016CF1581A1 07/18/2014 HOMICIDE-WILFUL KILL MURDER PREMEDITATED 782.04 1A1 06/01/2016 LEON COUNTY SHERIFF TALLAHASSEE 160078705
Charge Count = 1
 
Actually, social deviance and an unstable antisocial lifestyle are NOT crucial in determining psychopathy that I can find. While they may be traits on the list of characteristics, they are in no way always present. In fact, there has been much study recently on the number of well-educated, successful, charming, "winners" that have enough of the "diagnostic" traits to be considered full-fledged psychopaths. It is surmised this is EXACTLY what makes them successful.

I am in no way saying that Dan's wife falls into this category. Obviously, I haven't the slightest idea. I am just saying that it is well known that psychopaths can be wolves in sheep's clothing. And very successful and charming. And never commit crimes. And sometimes never revealed for who they really are except by those closest to them. Or perhaps never by anyone.


Thank you for your interested response. I hope that the following will clarify my statements. I do not have a lot of free time and hope that I do not sound rude. I will certainly not bring the subject up again.
Psychopathy is an antisocial personality disorder. In 1980, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the DSM-II, replaced psychopathy and sociopathy with ASPD (antisocial personality disorder)

You said, “Actually, social deviance and an unstable antisocial lifestyle are NOT crucial in determining psychopathy that I can find.” I have bolded those words below in an excerpt (link: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3405700188.html) about the PCL-R and psychopathy, as well as bolded the traits that have Not been mentioned as belonging to WA. Please note that those traits account for more than half of the test, making it nearly impossible for her or anyone to reach a score of 30 to determine psychopathy, without 7 or more deviant, antisocial personality traits.

(If you google “psychopathy” or “hare psychologist” this test is discussed in every link on the first page. The PCL-R is the most widely used diagnostic test in the world for determining psychopathy.)

“The Hare PCL-R contains two parts, a semi-structured interview and a review of the subject's file records and history. During the evaluation, the clinician scores 20 items that measure central elements of the psychopathic character. The items cover the nature of the subject's interpersonal relationships; his or her affective or emotional involvement; responses to other people and to situations; evidence of social deviance; and lifestyle. The material thus covers two key aspects that help define the psychopath: selfish and unfeeling victimization of other people, and an unstable and antisocial lifestyle.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:
• glib and superficial charm
• grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
• need for stimulation
• pathological lying
• cunning and manipulativeness
• lack of remorse or guilt
• shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
• callousness and lack of empathy
• parasitic lifestyle
• poor behavioral controls
• sexual promiscuity
• early behavior problems
• lack of realistic long-term goals
• impulsivity
• irresponsibility
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions
• many short-term marital relationships
• juvenile delinquency
• revocation of conditional release
• criminal versatility

•
When properly completed by a qualified professional, the PCL-R provides a total score that indicates how closely the test subject matches the "perfect" score that a classic or prototypical psychopath would rate. Each of the twenty items is given a score of 0, 1, or 2 based on how well it applies to the subject being tested. A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22.” http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3405700188.html

I thought that you did use the word psychopath when referring to WA. Sorry, I will track back later tonight when I get home.
 
What could be dangerous for reporters taking pics of the arrested suspect, are the " safety protocols" in place just for Garcia, or any arriving prisoner?
Might Garcia might be a target for others, gang members for example, or others who might not want him to talk?
Speculation, imo.
rbbm.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...er-suspect-arrive-leon-county-today/85257060/
Reporters were barred from seeing Garcia because of safety protocols, the LCSO spokesman said.

Investigators have yet to say how Garcia may be connected to Markel’s killing.

Sources close to the investigation say he was arrested as part of a murder-for-hire plot and more arrests are expected.

Garcia will appear before a Leon County judge Thursday morning.

His attorney, Jim Lewis, plans to file a not guilty plea. He said he would be requesting a bond hearing that could take place next week.

Lewis said he also is considering filing for a change of venue given the publicity that followed Markel’s slaying.

“I’m concerned,” Lewis said. “Every person I’ve ever talked to in Tallahassee knows about this case. It may be difficult to get a jury that hasn’t heard of this case.”
 
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