GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #19

[opt]

Florida Politics has an article about Graber. All is not as it seems with him, according to the article.

From the article:

It’s unclear why Graber, a medical doctor and former lawmaker, would insert himself into this case with a storyline that on its face lacks reason and defies every other piece of evidence. That alone should raise eyebrows about Graber’s motives or mindset

Unclear? It’s perfectly clear to anyone who saw Charlie’s trial: Graber did this favor for the Adelsons so that he could extort them!

 

[Ferpo]

Long-ish article in the Miami Herald about the Adelson family.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article282527083.html

I don't think there's much new info here for veteran trial watchers, but I did find this bit interesting:

Thanks for posting this, glad to see the Miami Herald get interested in the story again (they appeared to run only wire copies about the CA trial with no original reporting) and nice to get an update on HA from Graber:

Harvey is like in a daze, teary eyed, choking up. He told me ‘I don’t know what’s going on here, but I can tell you this – none of it is true.”

HA must be using the denial theme when talking to friends and associates; it seems to have swayed Graber.

 

[amicuscurie]

Thanks for posting this, glad to see the Miami Herald get interested in the story again (they appeared to run only wire copies about the CA trial with no original reporting) and nice to get an update on HA from Graber:



HA must be using the denial theme when talking to friends and associates; it seems to have swayed Graber.

He doesn’t know what is going on here? Like, what exactly did he think his son’s trial was about?

 

[Missyrocks5]

Loved the fact that the Florida politics article dug deeper. It is quite curious that he apparently was not close with them in recent years, and it's just referring to years past. Also, it's like people who defend people they know for years against all sorts of allegations. The bottom line is, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Also clearly, this"lifelong friend" apparently has never read any of the evidence, heard the wiretaps or read her emails. Listen to KM's vociferous denial that SG would never do anything like that to her former BFF, LR's wife.

 

[Misy]

I sort of waffle on whether or not Wendi was part of the planning or at least knew it was going to happen. But I recently watched the full interview with Tamara D on deep dive true crime podcast, and also Dr G’s post comparing some of WA’s testimony in the 3 trials (both KM’s trials and then CA’s). He makes some really interesting observations regarding what she says, inconsistencies, and some of her body language. I’m not a big believer in body language per se but he makes some really compelling observations. Between that Dr G YT video and then Danny and Wendi’s good friend Tamara D’s police interview, it leaves me saying yeah she definitely knew about it. MOO

 

[CLGM]

snipped by me

Can only help with the item in bold above

TV repair man stated that she seemed really upset that day, when Georgia asks about that wendi first can't remember and then she either 'recovers' or recalls her script and claims it was about swimming.

Worth watching a few minutes either side of the clip
(She also accepts it was a last minute lunch, which she was querying during the Isom interview)

I’m watching WA’s full testimony in CA’s trial. I’m struck how many specific details she “independently” remembers about the TV “contract” and why her mom was involved and also the date she was with KM at the beach (who was only one of many of CA’s girlfriends to her), but she didn’t remember that she canceled the house purchase on the same day of the filing of the motion for contempt against DM (Halloween) and so many other details about the divorce proceedings because it was “ten years”…. she’d had every detail of their story about the day of the murder locked down for some time… IMOO

Random question for legal folks: is it possible that a grand jury is working on charges for DA and WA? And thoughts on the possibility of a conspiracy to commit murder charge? (Sorry if this has already been discussed!)

Also, GC is awesome. Not impressed with CA’s lawyer, at all.

ETA: so many sighs and grimaces from CA during WA’s testimony - definitely not trying to not appear guilty in front of the jury…

 

[Seattle1]

Why are all of them dressed up but Wendi is wearing a scrunchie and like some kind of vest and a t-shirt? This looks like a special family occasion. To me she doesn’t fit. And why does Charlie look so different? The rest look the same, but I wouldn’t have recognized him. Wendi is almost taller than him in the picture, but she’s younger.

Lol -- the suburban family. Photo looks like 95% of my own family photo album.

The pins on Wendi's lapel look to me more like a club event -- maybe a youth group at Temple. Wendi is probably wearing heels. What can I say, the 80's were brutal! Also, I enjoyed the Miami Herald article and it wasn't paywalled.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article282527083.html

 

[Seattle1]

Random question for legal folks: is it possible that a grand jury is working on charges for DA and WA? And thoughts on the possibility of a conspiracy to commit murder charge? (Sorry if this has already been discussed!)

Welcome to the thread @CLGM! DA has already been indicted by the GJ: Two days after she was arrested, a Leon County grand jury on Wednesday indicted Donna Adelson for the murder of her former son-in-law. Just as the previous co-defendants, she's been charges as follows:

Adelson faces the following charges:

• Murder-First Degree
• Conspiracy to Commit Murder
• Solicitation to Commit Murder

The Court docs are available at the link below.

READ THE DOCUMENTS: Leon County grand jury indicts Donna Adelson for Dan Markel's murder

A grand jury has indicted Donna Adelson for the murder of FSU Law Professor, Dan Markel. She faces three charges.

www.wtxl.com

 

[jbc]

Good looking family but looks are deceiving.

Choices.

 

[jennyjenny]

Wow. I'm very surprised.

I was surprised as well. In WA interview with Isom, discussing notification of parents, she mentions Ruth + Phil are separated at that time.

 

[CLGM]

Welcome to the thread @CLGM! DA has already been indicted by the GJ: Two days after she was arrested, a Leon County grand jury on Wednesday indicted Donna Adelson for the murder of her former son-in-law. Just as the previous co-defendants, she's been charges as follows:

Adelson faces the following charges:

• Murder-First Degree
• Conspiracy to Commit Murder
• Solicitation to Commit Murder

The Court docs are available at the link below.

READ THE DOCUMENTS: Leon County grand jury indicts Donna Adelson for Dan Markel's murder

A grand jury has indicted Donna Adelson for the murder of FSU Law Professor, Dan Markel. She faces three charges.

www.wtxl.com

Thanks for the link to the indictment. Was just catching up and hadn't had a chance to watch WA's testimony until today. I've been following this case for some time and have commented (very occasionally) in the thread. I was a law school administrator (not one of the law schools related to this case) at the time of DM's murder and know faculty who knew him.

I thought there something happening for both DA and CA on December 12? For CA, it's sentencing.

I know we have a lot of legal minds here on WS and I did not practice criminal law, so my specific question is this: for people who know about how AGs determine whether and when to bring charges, what is likely going on with regard to a case against WA at this time?
There's a lot of strategy going on here and that's what I'm wondering about. Would they have convened a grand jury at this point? Adding WA's testimony in CA's case, it seems like there is more than enough evidence to indict.

 

[B4igo2it]

Re listening to WA initial interview with the detective. Shortly after learning Dan has been shot, WA says,
" he wouldn't do this to himself" more than once.... implying suicide. She had no info, nor did she ask, where he was shot. Did she have 1st hand knowledge he was shot in the head

did DM even have a gun? WA is not a good actor IMO

 

[Zedzded]

There's a lot of strategy going on here and that's what I'm wondering about. Would they have convened a grand jury at this point? Adding WA's testimony in CA's case, it seems like there is more than enough evidence to indict.

I think the reason why WA isn't under arrest is a strategic one, not because they don't have a strong enough case. DA wasn't going to be arrested when she was, her attempt to flee the country forced the State's hand. So I think they are just biding their time. A few people have pointed out, they could be waiting till after Xmas, for the sake of the boys. They could also be waiting to interview DA and reinterview CA prior to his sentencing to see if they have anything to say. I don't think the State needs to offer up any deals, but if they're cute about it, they could get WA and save themselves a lot of time and money on DA's trial. e.g they offer to giver DA a lighter sentence if CA rolls on WA. 100% he would take this, if it means he can save his Mum. I'm sure he's already been informed about how much she is struggling in jail. None of us want to see DA get a light sentence, but lets but real, if she gets 10 years (which is very light IMO) she gets out at 83. But there is very little chance with her fragile mind and aging body she makes it that far. It might sound appealing to her and CA though?

 

[jennyjenny]

mini- me s
( Except for Rob who's old enough to choose his own clothing)

Wow ... Have not seen a photo of the whole clan. As I've been listening to the wiretaps the past couple of days, this pic brings to mind one specific call that's had me downright irked.

Call #84/102 - 5/26/16 - Charlie+Donna:
Donna is telling Charlie of Rob's many trips to Florida w/family and never contacting her. Flying into Ft. Lauderdale, 17 miles from Harvey+Donna's home, Rob never tries to arrange a visit with them (not even a quick meet up for lunch before driving the family on to Naples). Donna is disgusted. What's wrong with him? What has she ever done to him? If he's mad, why not just talk to her about it? Rob is "off, "strange" and only thinks of himself.

Donna's quote - "thank you very much, because I didn't do much, I didn't do everything possible for you growing up, right? I was a really inattentive parent(ing)".

Of course, 'know-it-all Charlie' has words-of-wisdom for his mom ... (paraphrasing) that's why you need to have more than one kid because you never know ... you've got this one kid and you think everything is great but then he turns out to be a "paranoid schizophrenic" and ... at least she ended up with 2 kids and 2 grandkids so everything is ok!!

Ya'll ... Donna cannot be this clueless and honestly not know, at least one reason, why her eldest son has cast her aside. Harvey+Donna relentlessly threatened to disown Rob if he married Haritha. Out of respect for his parents (and continuous browbeating), he eventually throws in the towel. Fully prepared to abandon their son, Donna questions how their son could abandon them? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
Ugh Donna ... your deflection is showing!!

FWIW Charlie's describing Rob as a paranoid schizo ... well paranoid, he might have been. Knowing the level of hatred and viciousness and discovering they're capable of murder, I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid ... of his own family!

Apologies for my ramblings ... IMO and all that other stuff

 

[cottonweaver]

Wow ... Have not seen a photo of the whole clan. As I've been listening to the wiretaps the past couple of days, this pic brings to mind one specific call that's had me downright irked.

Call #84/102 - 5/26/16 - Charlie+Donna:
Donna is telling Charlie of Rob's many trips to Florida w/family and never contacting her. Flying into Ft. Lauderdale, 17 miles from Harvey+Donna's home, Rob never tries to arrange a visit with them (not even a quick meet up for lunch before driving the family on to Naples). Donna is disgusted. What's wrong with him? What has she ever done to him? If he's mad, why not just talk to her about it? Rob is "off, "strange" and only thinks of himself.

Donna's quote - "thank you very much, because I didn't do much, I didn't do everything possible for you growing up, right? I was a really inattentive parent(ing)".

Of course, 'know-it-all Charlie' has words-of-wisdom for his mom ... (paraphrasing) that's why you need to have more than one kid because you never know ... you've got this one kid and you think everything is great but then he turns out to be a "paranoid schizophrenic" and ... at least she ended up with 2 kids and 2 grandkids so everything is ok!!

Ya'll ... Donna cannot be this clueless and honestly not know, at least one reason, why her eldest son has cast her aside. Harvey+Donna relentlessly threatened to disown Rob if he married Haritha. Out of respect for his parents (and continuous browbeating), he eventually throws in the towel. Fully prepared to abandon their son, Donna questions how their son could abandon them? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
Ugh Donna ... your deflection is showing!!

FWIW Charlie's describing Rob as a paranoid schizo ... well paranoid, he might have been. Knowing the level of hatred and viciousness and discovering they're capable of murder, I wouldn't blame him for being a little paranoid ... of his own family!

Apologies for my ramblings ... IMO and all that other stuff

good catch.
I thought that, over the years, I'd listened to every published wiretap all but I missed that nugget.

I also missed another ref to Rob in the Dulce recording but when I reread the transcript last week, it struck me as odd that Charlie would use his brother in an imaginary scenario like this one. ( from the seventh text-box /page 7)

State attorney releases transcript from 2016 Adelson-Magbanua conversation at Miami restaurant

The enhanced audio will be a key piece of evidence in Katherine Magbanua's upcoming retrial.

www.wctv.tv

Agree that I'd be paranoid, after 2014, if I was in Rob's shoes too.
(Also, paranoid-schizo is a very specific smear isn't it? Charlie could've used anything, such as psychopath, sociopath, loony etc)

Anyway, I have no doubt that some of Donna's anger, spite and determination re Dan Markel & the Markel boys has its roots in the fall-out from the failed relationships with Rob's family.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think the reason why WA isn't under arrest is a strategic one, not because they don't have a strong enough case. DA wasn't going to be arrested when she was, her attempt to flee the country forced the State's hand. So I think they are just biding their time. A few people have pointed out, they could be waiting till after Xmas, for the sake of the boys. They could also be waiting to interview DA and reinterview CA prior to his sentencing to see if they have anything to say. I don't think the State needs to offer up any deals, but if they're cute about it, they could get WA and save themselves a lot of time and money on DA's trial. e.g they offer to giver DA a lighter sentence if CA rolls on WA. 100% he would take this, if it means he can save his Mum. I'm sure he's already been informed about how much she is struggling in jail. None of us want to see DA get a light sentence, but lets but real, if she gets 10 years (which is very light IMO) she gets out at 83. But there is very little chance with her fragile mind and aging body she makes it that far. It might sound appealing to her and CA though?

IDK anything about the likelihood of who might flip or who might flip first, if at all, but it's intriguing that people believe that the state would pause for the Christmas holidays or Hanukkah. ( They believe the state already has enough to arrest Wendi )

 

[Zedzded]

IDK anything about the likelihood of who might flip or who might flip first, if at all, but it's intriguing that people believe that the state would pause for the Christmas holidays or Hanukkah. ( They believe the state already has enough to arrest Wendi )

The reason why I said that was because GC held off on arresting CA as the Markels were due to visit the boys. They were assuming that the Wendi would deny them access (find some excuse) if they arrested CA before they got to see them. So they waited, the Markels phoned them from the airport (on the way back to Canada) telling LE/GC that they'd seen the boys and LE picked up CA shortly after.

 

[clearskies1]

I’m watching WA’s full testimony in CA’s trial. I’m struck how many specific details she “independently” remembers about the TV “contract” and why her mom was involved and also the date she was with KM at the beach (who was only one of many of CA’s girlfriends to her), but she didn’t remember that she canceled the house purchase on the same day of the filing of the motion for contempt against DM (Halloween) and so many other details about the divorce proceedings because it was “ten years”…. she’d had every detail of their story about the day of the murder locked down for some time… IMOO

Random question for legal folks: is it possible that a grand jury is working on charges for DA and WA? And thoughts on the possibility of a conspiracy to commit murder charge? (Sorry if this has already been discussed!)

Also, GC is awesome. Not impressed with CA’s lawyer, at all.

ETA: so many sighs and grimaces from CA during WA’s testimony - definitely not trying to not appear guilty in front of the jury…

When she seemed to offer things that were not asked, I started to wonder if her lawyer told her to talk as much as possible about some things because it would add fuel to a potential argument that evidence used against her violates her use/derivative use immunity. The more she says on the stand, the more arguments they have to make in case she is charged. JMO.

 

[cottonweaver]

The reason why I said that was because GC held off on arresting CA as the Markels were due to visit the boys. They were assuming that the Wendi would deny them access (find some excuse) if they arrested CA before they got to see them. So they waited, the Markels phoned them from the airport (on the way back to Canada) telling LE/GC that they'd seen the boys and LE picked up CA shortly after.

yes i recall that and if the prosecutors wanted to do that again they would have to put Wendi on close surveillance , just because of the stunt Harvey & Donna pulled. (It appears that if it hadn't been for the tip-off, they'd have already been in Dubai or Vietnam)

 

[cottonweaver]

When she seemed to offer things that were not asked, I started to wonder if her lawyer told her to talk as much as possible about some things because it would add fuel to a potential argument that evidence used against her violates her use/derivative use immunity. The more she says on the stand, the more arguments they have to make in case she is charged. JMO.

yes Mentour Lawyer also said the same, he speculated that Rashbaum covered so many topics on cross for the same reason.

he's also done an update on Kastigar but it's at the very tail end of his video on Wendy's Isom interview