GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

[Knitpicker]

On this same November 7 conversation:

• CA asks Janice to throw away his sex toys so that his parents don't find them (DA was still free at this time).
• Janice starts to freak out, almost crying ("this is moving way too fast") over uncertainty about the future of the house but two minute later she's laughing again.
• Even with everything going on, Janice is thinking mainly of herself. Brings up the house again and says "I don't have a place to go".
• CA mentions that HA had an aneurysm
• Janice is laughing when she is rounding up the sex toys while CA gives instructions on where they are located in various parts of the house.
• Janice had "the bar" ready for CA upon his acquittal.
• CA was very positive on Sunday evening, and like has been reported a lot, he "gave away his canteen" thinking he was going home.
• Janice seemed happy to adopt Bubbles the dog but again emphasized again that she had no place to go. Bubbles about to have his sixth birthday.

This only half of it but hopefully five weeks later Janice understands that her days at Whale Harbor are numbered.

Isnt she the psychologist ? CA mentions to his mother that she will now probably rent the house. Why would she rent it? It it in her name? The house went up for sale recently.

 

[stamplewie]

New calls released, at least I think they are new.

Wow. The new calls have one that includes Charlie analyzing all of the "one in a million" "coincidences" in this case -- the purchase of "bullet bourbon" on the day of Dan's murder, Wendi driving on the day and time of the murder out of her way to the crime scene, the tv joke and the tv being repaired on day of murder and Donna's "tv for $5k" remark on recorded call after the bump . . . all of this discussed through the lens of Charlie. Fascinating.

 

[amicuscurie]

Isnt she the psychologist ? CA mentions to his mother that she will now probably rent the house. Why would she rent it? It it in her name? The house went up for sale recently.

Maybe she would rent it from whoever buys it? Or rent it out for Charlie and move out?

 

[amicuscurie]

Wow. The new calls have one that includes Charlie analyzing all of the "one in a million" "coincidences" in this case -- the purchase of "bullet bourbon" on the day of Dan's murder, Wendi driving on the day and time of the murder out of her way to the crime scene, the tv joke and the tv being repaired on day of murder and Donna's "tv for $5k" remark on recorded call after the bump . . . all of this discussed through the lens of Charlie. Fascinating.

I think he knows he’s being recorded, surely? We need to take that into account

 

[stamplewie]

I think he knows he’s being recorded, surely? We need to take that into account

Understood, but given that he has just been convicted, i think it is more likely that he is replaying all of the evidence in his mind rather than using the call as some effort to script a defense for mom or wendi. i interpreted the call as a soliloquy on how all of these coincidences were used against him.

 

[opt]

Wow. The new calls have one that includes Charlie analyzing all of the "one in a million" "coincidences" in this case -- the purchase of "bullet bourbon" on the day of Dan's murder, Wendi driving on the day and time of the murder out of her way to the crime scene, the tv joke and the tv being repaired on day of murder and Donna's "tv for $5k" remark on recorded call after the bump . . . all of this discussed through the lens of Charlie. Fascinating.

So many coincidences that it’s literally unbelievable!

 

[stamplewie]

It is clear from the jail calls that Dan Rashbaum did not realistically evaluate the chances of winning this case and gave his client false hope. Dan R. no doubt worked very hard to defend his client, but he failed abysmally to explain the unlikelihood of an acquittal. In fact, he did the opposite and led CA to believe he would be walking out of jail. Like Katie, Charlie's counsel gave him fatal advice. According to CA, Dan R. kept telling him "I'm a closer" meaning he does great summations. Actually, I disagree -- his summation was a boring litany of the evidence witness by witness, instead of telling a compelling story. But even had he done a great summation, the best he could have hoped for was a hung jury.

 

[Wishbone]

Understood, but given that he has just been convicted, i think it is more likely that he is replaying all of the evidence in his mind rather than using the call as some effort to script a defense for mom or wendi. i interpreted the call as a soliloquy on how all of these coincidences were used against him.

I don't recall the bourbon or WA's driving that day being used against him....did I miss something? I just recall those actions implicating WA.

 

[stamplewie]

I don't recall the bourbon or WA's driving that day being used against him....did I miss something? I just recall those actions implicating WA.

I think CA believes that all of the coincidences that pointed to the guilt/knowledge of Wendi and Donna bled into the circumstantial evidence which ultimately weighed against him and contributed to the jury's verdict.

 

[Zedzded]

I don't think CA or DA understands how circumstantial evidence works. The more there is, the stronger the case. You can't dismiss 10+ coincidences. Weird considering how smart they are and the fact WA is a lawyer, you'd think they would have some basic knowledge of how circumstantial evidence works.

 

[amicuscurie]

Understood, but given that he has just been convicted, i think it is more likely that he is replaying all of the evidence in his mind rather than using the call as some effort to script a defense for mom or wendi. i interpreted the call as a soliloquy on how all of these coincidences were used against him.

I do not think he really believes these are really coincidences because I am of the opinion they aren’t. If they aren‘t, he must know that. Perhaps he has convinced himself they are?

 

[amicuscurie]

It is clear from the jail calls that Dan Rashbaum did not realistically evaluate the chances of winning this case and gave his client false hope. Dan R. no doubt worked very hard to defend his client, but he failed abysmally to explain the unlikelihood of an acquittal. In fact, he did the opposite and led CA to believe he would be walking out of jail. Like Katie, Charlie's counsel gave him fatal advice. According to CA, Dan R. kept telling him "I'm a closer" meaning he does great summations. Actually, I disagree -- his summation was a boring litany of the evidence witness by witness, instead of telling a compelling story. But even had he done a great summation, the best he could have hoped for was a hung jury.

Again, this is Charlie talking, after he has already been convicted. We don’t know what Rash actually told him, we don’t know how Charlie interpreted that, and we don’t know what Charlie wanted to hear, or how many ways Charlie might have asked Rash or pressured Rash to say what he wanted to hear. People hear what they want to hear, and people can be manipulative. Charlie in these calls is blaming everyone and everything but himself. This tirade against Rash is consistent with that type of behavior. I would take it with a grain of salt.

 

[amicuscurie]

Funny thing. In the recording, Donna says she told Wendi she talked to Charlie twice right after the conviction, and both times he asked about her. We’ve heard several calls between Donna and Charlie from just after the conviction. Has he asked about Wendi on any of them? I didn’t hear it. Why would Donna tell Wendi he asked about her, and get so upset that she wasn’t calling him? Is this some kind of guilt trip?

Also, they seem to talk about Wendi possibly coming over that night and looking at the stuff they want to show her, and Donna says maybe she can advise them about the extradition issue. Then, the other person in the room seems to say that Maybe Wendi will go to the authorities and report that they plan to flee. Donna then explains that Harvey should just tell Wendi that they wish to speak to her “as an attorney” so she can’t say anything. Wow.

This is mind-blowing to me, that they think that they can say this to her and then she won’t tell on them and will help them with their plans to flee, particularly given all that Donna has just described about their recent communication and the tension between them. It is also mind-blowing to me that they think that her helping them with the extradition issue, which is tied directly to their plans to flee “has nothing to do with the case,” as Donna says repeatedly. Just, wow. in my opinion they aren’t very bright about some things, and it has continued to get them in trouble. It is consistent with the narcissistic trait of only thinking of one’s self.

Donna says she is making these plans because she has spoken with Rash about “what they are thinking up there.” This suggests to me she is aware that they are thinking of going after her next. My question is, what does this other person in the room think about that, and about why they would be going after Donna at all? Have they told everyone this is just a grand conspiracy against all of them, and some people believe it? If I was with a friend and she said that the authorities might arrest her for murder soon, because her son had just been convicted, I might have some questions. But that’s just me.


That hot mic call is gold, IMO.

ETA: There is a third person in the room. Perhaps that is why Donna is saying Charlie asked about Wendi (“the first thing he said”), when we haven’t heard him do so? But she seems to be reading from an actual text she sent to Wendi. Weird.

 

[Sustained]

Isnt she the psychologist ? CA mentions to his mother that she will now probably rent the house. Why would she rent it? It it in her name? The house went up for sale recently.

Where are you seeing the Whale Harbor house for sale ?

 

[BearWatcher]

So on one of those calls shortly after the verdict, Charlie did ask, toward the end of the call, how Wendi is holding up. They told Charlie they were only talking to CA and DR to avoid telling him that Wendi was not replying to their texts, etc. They then texted Wendi saying CA is asking about you to get her to respond to her request for contact.

 

[Florida_marlin]

Funny thing. In the recording, Donna says she told Wendi she talked to Charlie twice right after the conviction, and both times he asked about her. We’ve heard several calls between Donna and Charlie from just after the conviction. Has he asked about Wendi on any of them? I didn’t hear it. Why would Donna tell Wendi he asked about her, and get so upset that she wasn’t calling him? Is this some kind of guilt trip?

Also, they seem to talk about Wendi possibly coming over that night and looking at the stuff they want to show her, and Donna says maybe she can advise them about the extradition issue. Then, the other person in the room seems to say that Maybe Wendi will go to the authorities and report that they plan to flee. Donna then explains that Harvey should just tell Wendi that they wish to speak to her “as an attorney” so she can’t say anything. Wow.

This is mind-blowing to me, that they think that they can say this to her and then she won’t tell on them and will help them with their plans to flee, particularly given all that Donna has just described about their recent communication and the tension between them. It is also mind-blowing to me that they think that her helping them with the extradition issue, which is tied directly to their plans to flee “has nothing to do with the case,” as Donna says repeatedly. Just, wow. in my opinion they aren’t very bright about some things, and it has continued to get them in trouble. It is consistent with the narcissistic trait of only thinking of one’s self.

Donna says she is making these plans because she has spoken with Rash about “what they are thinking up there.” This suggests to me she is aware that they are thinking of going after her next. My question is, what does this other person in the room think about that, and about why they would be going after Donna at all? Have they told everyone this is just a grand conspiracy against all of them, and some people believe it? If I was with a friend and she said that the authorities might arrest her for murder soon, because her son had just been convicted, I might have some questions. But that’s just me.


That hot mic call is gold, IMO.

ETA: There is a third person in the room. Perhaps that is why Donna is saying Charlie asked about Wendi (“the first thing he said”), when we haven’t heard him do so? But she seems to be reading from an actual text she sent to Wendi. Weird.

I imagine LE will ID the third person in the room and that person will be getting the opportunity to discuss the hot mic discussion in more detail!

 

[BSBC]

What he's not saying: "I can't believe this has happened to me, I'm innocent, I swear to you, I would never try to kill anyone, that crazy KM she lied, why would she lie about me, don't worry, I'll beat this, they made a mistake, I'll get out, I won't ever give up because I'm innocent..."

JMO

This. At one point, Janice says to CA (paraphrasing): Let’s talk about Katie. Aren’t you livid about what she did (testifying that, yes, CA did orchestrate the whole murder conspiracy)?

CA is uncharacteristically silent in response. Seeming to acknowledge that he shouldn’t say anything about the facts of the case on a recorded line, he doesn’t say anything about Katie.

As Cedars says, an innocent man would be loudly proclaiming his innocence and railing against the perfidious Katie, who lied about CA’s involvement in a desperate attempt to have her sentence shortened. His failure to do that speaks volumes.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I thought of a couple things. In talking to whoever the woman was in the room with them on the tape, and reading Wendi's text or emails out loud, Donna wants WA to help her research about the extradition countries, etc. In what universe does she think that Wendi is going to do that? Her digital footprint would reveal that she helped her parents flee? How can Donna not know this at this point? I now do think that they truly did not know the phone was still on and recording.

Second, if the rift really is there now, it sure seems that DA, HA & CA might be OK with Charlie flipping on WA to save himself more time. I don't know how this would be accomplished, unless the deal included that they would give DA house arrest or something for a couple years and that's it because she would be implicated. I still don't see them, despite the resentment they must all now have against WA, the boys still need a mom until they're 18. Is it possible they all tell the boys the truth? That they've been lied to their whole life and it really is true? Or is it from the angle of we are going to lie and tell the State what they want to hear so that uncle Charlie gets out of jail sooner. But it implicates their mom.

I do think that the rift is there enough that Charlie does not want to spend the rest of his life in jail while Wendi is out there enjoying herself. Donna loves Charlie enough i think she would agree. But what would him flipping look like with all these consequences?

 

[Cedars]

I thought of a couple things. In talking to whoever the woman was in the room with them on the tape, and reading Wendy's text or emails out loud, Donna wants WA to help her research about the extradition countries, etc. In what universe does she think that Wendi is going to do that? Her digital footprint would reveal that she helped her parents flee? How can Donna not know this at this point? I now do think that they truly did not know the phone was still on and recording.

Second, if the rift really is there now, it sure seems that DA, HA & CA might be OK with Charlie flipping on WA to save himself more time. I don't know how this would be accomplished, unless the deal included that they would give DA house arrest or something for a couple years and that's it because she would be implicated. I still don't see them, despite the resentment they must all now have against WA, the boys still need a mom until they're 18. Is it possible they all tell the boys the truth? That they've been lied to their whole life and it really is true? Or is it from the angle of we are going to lie and tell the State what they want to hear so that uncle Charlie gets out of jail sooner. But it implicates their mom.

I do think that the rift is there enough that Charlie does not want to spend the rest of his life in jail while Wendi is out there enjoying herself. Donna loves Charlie enough i think she would agree. But what would him flipping look like with all these consequences?

I don't agree that prosecutors are offering, or would ever offer, to reduce CA's jail time in exchange for testimony that WA knew what was going to happen.

CA made the murder happen, and he will be punished for that.

His sentence won't be reduced by crying that his Mummy and little sister made him do it.

JMO

 

[Missyrocks5]

Funny thing. In the recording, Donna says she told Wendi she talked to Charlie twice right after the conviction, and both times he asked about her. We’ve heard several calls between Donna and Charlie from just after the conviction. Has he asked about Wendi on any of them? I didn’t hear it. Why would Donna tell Wendi he asked about her, and get so upset that she wasn’t calling him? Is this some kind of guilt trip?

Also, they seem to talk about Wendi possibly coming over that night and looking at the stuff they want to show her, and Donna says maybe she can advise them about the extradition issue. Then, the other person in the room seems to say that Maybe Wendi will go to the authorities and report that they plan to flee. Donna then explains that Harvey should just tell Wendi that they wish to speak to her “as an attorney” so she can’t say anything. Wow.

This is mind-blowing to me, that they think that they can say this to her and then she won’t tell on them and will help them with their plans to flee, particularly given all that Donna has just described about their recent communication and the tension between them. It is also mind-blowing to me that they think that her helping them with the extradition issue, which is tied directly to their plans to flee “has nothing to do with the case,” as Donna says repeatedly. Just, wow. in my opinion they aren’t very bright about some things, and it has continued to get them in trouble. It is consistent with the narcissistic trait of only thinking of one’s self.

Donna says she is making these plans because she has spoken with Rash about “what they are thinking up there.” This suggests to me she is aware that they are thinking of going after her next. My question is, what does this other person in the room think about that, and about why they would be going after Donna at all? Have they told everyone this is just a grand conspiracy against all of them, and some people believe it? If I was with a friend and she said that the authorities might arrest her for murder soon, because her son had just been convicted, I might have some questions. But that’s just me.


That hot mic call is gold, IMO.

ETA: There is a third person in the room. Perhaps that is why Donna is saying Charlie asked about Wendi (“the first thing he said”), when we haven’t heard him do so? But she seems to be reading from an actual text she sent to Wendi. Weird.

I remember hearing that he did ask eho she talked to. She said she just wasn't up to anyone else besides him and Dan. So I think that was her first way of saying she didn't speak to Wendi i believe. Then, I don't know if it was later that night or the next day, he did ask about Wendi and she said she didn't speak to her. That's from my memory, though, I can't swear to it.