GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

[cottonweaver]

The next call in sequence - same day, picking up after they'd got cut off

8 November 2023
CA to DA & HA
Gigi's titles: Talks To Donna & Harvey - Dad's Losing It, Prison Talk. "*Commissary talk*Upcoming sentencing talk*Prison intake & transport talk - Charlie & Donna cry* Charlie talks about prisoners turning into animals after years incarcerated & also prison violence* Donna says Harvey is losing it "

Interesting section imo:
From 6mins on, Charlie raises the topic of a future visit, after he's been transferred from LC Jail. He's hinting that he wants them to visit, but, imo they don't want to, because they know they will be fleeing soon. ( Anybody recall the first date CA is aware that they will be fleeing USA? Does he already know that during this call?)

Anyway, she replies thus:

DA : you know what? we're doing just fine talking on the phone. it's not gonna, that's not gonna to make the difference. ... at least we get to talk to each other and that's really what matters'
CA: Soooooooo ( and he starts crying)
DA: we'll always be able to talk to you Charlie we will always be able to talk to you at any at any time
Harvey: anytime Charlie

A little while later in this call

Charlie reminisces back to 2013, dating Junko and her wanting him to move into the Continuum.
Donna cuts him off and tells her it’s not good to ruminate over what coulda been and then segues into an issue she has with her leaking fridge and an appointment with the repair guy that she has to deal with shortly.
Charlie has to beg/ask her - can you just to talk a little bit more?


13.01: How’s Ben doing?
DA (sobbing) : ‘ I haven’t spoken to the children’ ( she goes on to say that she plans to speak to them in a couple of days)

23minutes+ At this point I would not be surprised if Donna is making an excuse to get off the phone by claiming Dad ' is losing it'
Charlie's apologising if he has upset her!
Harvey's voice - his tone is composed imo

 

[amicuscurie]

Another hot mic moment at the end of this call!

I can’t get through this. What do they admit?

 

[amicuscurie]

So it seems to me like Wendi is coming over, they want to talk in private, so Donna tells Harvey to tell George to wait in the lobby. And Donna says they are going to have to call Annie Cunningham because they need her husband to take care of some things (like maybe when they’re gone?). They mention a handyman and someone might need to call someone to fix something in the apartment (maybe while they’re gone?).

Donna says they’re going to have to tell Wendi they’re leaving. So this should have tipped off the cops. Why did they need that tip from Charlie’s friend? After they heard this, you’d think they’d have checked with the airlines to see if they had booked a flight, which they already had by then. But they don’t say that in the affidavit, they just say they found out which flight they were on from the friend.

Amazing, she appears to be aware that her calls may be recorded, but she says she HAS to talk on the phone because she can’t put anything in writing because apparently that’s what Dan said to her? So she just keeps talking ? I mean, arguably that’s just as bad.

 

[newbysleuther]

I can’t get through this. What do they admit?

That they're planning to leave the country, which led to her arrest

 

[LinasK]

I thought of a couple things. In talking to whoever the woman was in the room with them on the tape, and reading Wendi's text or emails out loud, Donna wants WA to help her research about the extradition countries, etc. In what universe does she think that Wendi is going to do that? Her digital footprint would reveal that she helped her parents flee? How can Donna not know this at this point? I now do think that they truly did not know the phone was still on and recording.

Second, if the rift really is there now, it sure seems that DA, HA & CA might be OK with Charlie flipping on WA to save himself more time. I don't know how this would be accomplished, unless the deal included that they would give DA house arrest or something for a couple years and that's it because she would be implicated. I still don't see them, despite the resentment they must all now have against WA, the boys still need a mom until they're 18. Is it possible they all tell the boys the truth? That they've been lied to their whole life and it really is true? Or is it from the angle of we are going to lie and tell the State what they want to hear so that uncle Charlie gets out of jail sooner. But it implicates their mom.

I do think that the rift is there enough that Charlie does not want to spend the rest of his life in jail while Wendi is out there enjoying herself. Donna loves Charlie enough i think she would agree. But what would him flipping look like with all these consequences?

I think it's a no-brainer that Donna isn't getting house arrest for arranging a murder. No matter how much she complains about jail conditions. It's probably worse than she was expecting because she opened her mouth about suicide. The jailers didn't fall for her manipulation tactics.

 

[Wishbone]

So it seems to me like Wendi is coming over, they want to talk in private, so Donna tells Harvey to tell George to wait in the lobby. And Donna says they are going to have to call Annie Cunningham because they need her husband to take care of some things (like maybe when they’re gone?). They mention a handyman and someone might need to call someone to fix something in the apartment (maybe while they’re gone?).

Donna says they’re going to have to tell Wendi they’re leaving. So this should have tipped off the cops. Why did they need that tip from Charlie’s friend? After they heard this, you’d think they’d have checked with the airlines to see if they had booked a flight, which they already had by then. But they don’t say that in the affidavit, they just say they found out which flight they were on from the friend.

Amazing, she appears to be aware that her calls may be recorded, but she says she HAS to talk on the phone because she can’t put anything in writing because apparently that’s what Dan said to her? So she just keeps talking ? I mean, arguably that’s just as bad.

“Amazing, she appears to be aware that her calls may be recorded, but she says she HAS to talk on the phone because she can’t put anything in writing because apparently that’s what Dan said to her? So she just keeps talking ? I mean,arguably that’s just as bad.”

Exactly. They are aware the conversations are being recorded and that's why I just can't bring myself to put much weight on the side of truth of a lot of what is being said. IMO they are still spinning their web for their own reasons. This family is constitutionally incapable of being honest. One of them is already convicted of murder and the others soon to follow, I hope.

 

[LinasK]

What could Georgia give? These calls are very helpful to that end. He wants to be a dad to his son, wants to see visitors in person, not behind a screen. He wants to be in a camp with other people that need safe, secure prison such as law enforcement who are inprisioned. That she could give if he provides information on Wendi. I don’t think he will give up his mom, but maybe would be willing to provide information on Wendi if he knew he could be safe, in a more like camp like environment that would allow him to be in physical contact with his son.

I highly doubt that murderers are granted the kind of low security prisons like Elizabeth Holmes and Martha Stewart have gotten. At most, they might shave time off his sentence or allow him to be eligible for parole.

 

[Seattle1]

This. At one point, Janice says to CA (paraphrasing): Let’s talk about Katie. Aren’t you livid about what she did (testifying that, yes, CA did orchestrate the whole murder conspiracy)?

CA is uncharacteristically silent in response. Seeming to acknowledge that he shouldn’t say anything about the facts of the case on a recorded line, he doesn’t say anything about Katie.

As Cedars says, an innocent man would be loudly proclaiming his innocence and railing against the perfidious Katie, who lied about CA’s involvement in a desperate attempt to have her sentence shortened. His failure to do that speaks volumes.

I believe CA's silence was intentional --after nearly two years, he's all too aware that he's being recorded. Janice soon catches on and apologizes for asking him details of his case and KM.

 

[BUF]

I highly doubt that murderers are granted the kind of low security prisons like Elizabeth Holmes and Martha Stewart have gotten. At most, they might shave time off his sentence or allow him to be eligible for parole.

Exactly. He wasn’t tried and convicted in a federal court so he won’t be going to a club fed “camp”. Don’t know why Charlie keeps referring that he hopes he might end up in one of these “camps” in those recorded calls.

 

[Chelly]

Just listened to the audios. Amazing!

These Adelson's are absolutely delusional. Their mindset has clearly existed in the alternate universe of denial. They actually believed CA would be found innocent and they are convinced he didn't get a fair trial. CA's attorney was telling him right up to the end that everything was coming up roses and he'd win his case. DA, CA and HA are beyond shocked at the trial outcome. These people are in no way like you and I. IMO

 

[amicuscurie]

I like how neither of them say they read Wendi’s book. They seem surprised by what she wrote and how it was used at trial.

 

[Seattle1]

I disagree. I think Georgia and the State want Wendi so badly. She is public enemy #1 to them. Wendi has been the only one in the family smart enough to keep her mouth shut and not create a digital trail so she's going to be a lot harder to get. She plotted out from the beginning to set up JL as a potential suspect, and also to float the idea that her brother did this behind her back to make her life simpler.

To prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, the state may make a decision that it is worth it to lessen Charlie's sentence, come up with something with Donna because she's old so giving her 10 years is still a life sentence, all to get Wendi and knock that smile off her face. That's JMO.

I don't think the state will ever pursue WA. Prosecutors are skilled at picking their battles and are accustomed to rejecting cases that they can't win at trial. They also know better than to pursue a case with so much gray matter that it will only tie up resources for an extended period and no guarantee it will get to trial!

What separates a good prosecutor from a great prosecutor is that a great accepts that they sometimes have to make a deal with the devil, and that there's no such thing as 100% justice. One also has to look at the legal definition of a co-conspirator where even a (lone) wolf surveilling fulltime, from the fence line, will not likely pass the test.

IMO, Georgia et. al., have long known WA was their devil when she was given immunity and that fact alone means attempting to prosecute WA today as a co-conspirator would result in at least a year of evidentiary hearings for discovery, and where all the same evidence used to convict the co-defendants becomes hit and miss on what actually gets admitted as evidence against WA. Here is where the state takes comfort in knowing that the in the minds of public opinion, WA is guilty of wanting her husband out of her way, and her family made it happen. MOO

 

[Chelly]

I don't think the state will ever pursue WA. Prosecutors are skilled at picking their battles and are accustomed to rejecting cases that they can't win at trial. They also know better than to pursue a case with so much gray matter that it will only tie up resources for an extended period and no guarantee it will get to trial!

What separates a good prosecutor from a great prosecutor is that a great accepts that they sometimes have to make a deal with the devil, and that there's no such thing as 100% justice. One also has to look at the legal definition of a co-conspirator where even a (lone) wolf surveilling fulltime, from the fence line, will likely pass the test.

IMO, Georgia et. al., have long known WA was their devil when she was given immunity and that fact alone means attempting to prosecute WA today as a co-conspirator would result in at least a year of evidentiary hearings for discovery, and where all the same evidence used to convict the co-defendants becomes hit and miss on what actually gets admitted as evidence against WA. Here is where the state takes comfort in knowing that the in the minds of public opinion, WA is guilty of wanting her husband out of her way, and her family made it happen. MOO

I agree and believe prosecutors think of WA as small fish not worth reeling in. However, I'd feel a lot of satisfaction if LE makes its presence known to Wendi from time-to-time keeping her aware they have their eye on her. I'd like for her to spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder in fear that one day another shoe may drop.

 

[Ferpo]

Isnt she the psychologist ? CA mentions to his mother that she will now probably rent the house. Why would she rent it? It it in her name? The house went up for sale recently.

Janis M. (not Janice) is a counselor who provides tele-health engagements from Whale Harbor. She actually lists Whale Harbor as her business address and you can hear CA asking about her upcoming appointments later in the day.

When Janis says a few times on the call that "she has nowhere to go", it's because she is renting her own place out, which she mentioned. She has a storage unit where her stuff is (and offers to put CA's belongings there too).

Her life doesn't sound too difficult: she gets rental income from her place, is house-sitting on the Intracoastal with a pool, has companionship from Bubbles, and has an 80 inch TV on the wall (which she says she likes).

Overall, for someone who said that she watched the trial, she sounded remarkably gullible and hardly aware of the severity of CA's conviction, and LWOP sentence.

 

[Zedzded]

Has this call been posted? CA discusses WA's route the day of the murder and how illogical it was. Why go to a liquor store that far away when there are 5 closer? Why take such an indirect route? And what are the chances of her driving past DM's house 1 hour after the murder? He says 1:10'000 and pretty much agrees it's too much of a coincidence that she showed up at the crime scene. "She had to have had prior knowledge". And DA agrees with him. "If she showed up at that place, at that time, then she's guilty."

 

[amicuscurie]

Has this call been posted? CA discusses WA's route the day of the murder and how illogical it was. Why go to a liquor store that far away when there are 5 closer? Why take such an indirect route? And what are the chances of her driving past DM's house 1 hour after the murder? He says 1:10'000 and pretty much agrees it's too much of a coincidence that she showed up at the crime scene. "She had to have had prior knowledge". And DA agrees with him.

Yes. This is quite a head-scratcher for me.

 

[Weki]

Donna and Harvey bought the tickets to Vietnam the day after Charlie’s conviction, Nov 7. So as she’s talking to him in these latest calls she knows she will never visit him. And likely never talk to him again once they leave! That’s the subtext on her end.

I realize that she’s distracted thinking about her own potential impending arrest on these calls. It’s every man/woman for himself after Charlie’s conviction! It’s hard to remember these are criminal co-conspirators and not mother, father and son. I’m more focused on the fact that it’s a mother talking to her son and have to try to remember it’s his co-conspirator he’s talking to.

 

[Gardenista]

I wish we could have a thread with the posts from who have kind souls and good ears that have transcribed these calls. I keep jumping from call to call without completing them because I have so much trouble understanding what is being said.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes. This is quite a head-scratcher for me.

Plus, during that call, Wendi is literally in the next room. Donna goes quiet as if she's not sure what game he's playing, if any.

There's all sorts of games happening in that call. I definitely hear segments - as per your previous speculation - where Charlie is speaking for the tape. ( In those segments, Donna just plays along)

Then there are other segments which sound more unguarded to me, where he's rehashing and processing his shock, repeating himself too. ( Just like the Bump wiretaps and recordings, Charlie alternates between crafty and dumb)

If I was Dougan or Cappleman I would play other segments just for the belly laughs. IMO it's comedy gold when they describe Josh Dubin as ' top of his game, number one' as a jury consultant and then cause he spent 4 yrs in TAL Charlie says it proves that ' there is nobody better than Dubin to understand a Tallahasse jury than Dubin'... like in the world.
and
Georgia's closing was just her repeating over & over to the jury that ' you know the Chiefs are better than the Dolphins, so find him Guilty'

 

[Gardenista]

LMAO, Charlie said in one of the videos that his testimony was flawless