FLDS compound in Texas Court proceedings ONLY please!!!!!

[Ca-Sun]

Thanks Golfmom and Molly, I bet the testimony was pretty transparent to the judge.

Biggirl, Colorado City and Hildale emptied out pretty fast after Jeffs was caught. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that the Texas compound empties out now too. Obviously moving to another state didn't help them. I'm thinking Mexico since Canada is now watching their group there now.

You are probably right. I think it will be difficult for them to stay in the present compound. If they relocated in Mexico, where would they get money? I thought I heard/read they are all getting welfare checks. If true, I'm wondering how they managed to do that. Maybe something like, "We live in a compound where we aren't allowed to do anything except cook, clean, and and have babies. We don't like the 'outside' government and we don't live by those rules. There is only one exception; money. Please send us money each month so we can continue to live in the lifestyle we are accustomed. You will need to increase the amount each month because babies are born all the time. Thank you very much." Why does the government pay them? :waitasec:

 

[mollymalone]

You are probably right. I think it will be difficult for them to stay in the present compound. If they relocated in Mexico, where would they get money? I thought I heard/read they are all getting welfare checks. If true, I'm wondering how they managed to do that. Maybe something like, "We live in a compound where we aren't allowed to do anything except cook, clean, and and have babies. We don't like the 'outside' government and we don't live by those rules. There is only one exception; money. Please send us money each month so we can continue to live in the lifestyle we are accustomed. You will need to increase the amount each month because babies are born all the time. Thank you very much." Why does the government pay them? :waitasec:

These people aren't stupid by any means and they've obviously come up with a forumla for filling out the apps with plausible scenarios, ie.. single parent, doesn't know who the father was or he's long gone and they give a false name for the father etc..

If they go down to Mexico they'll still be funded by those who remain in other states. I suspect those from Tx will filter out into the other states, Colorado for instance, Idaho or Nevada since AZ and Utah have been looking into them.

 

[SuziQ]

Oh yeah, I can see people of those faiths talking like warren jeffs and wearing pastels cause one man said so. Uh huh. :chicken: How fast do you think they'll drop the proverbial brick on him?

I bet he's never been in an FLDS temple and wasn't privy to what goes on in it.

I've been googling John Walsh and although he's published a few books and and papers about the LDS church I've yet to see anything he's done on the FLDS...oh yeah, he got that info from the media.

Other religions worship god, the FLDS worships their prophet. How is that similiar?

 

[Spydernweb]

Can someone please explain this to me? I've seen the propoganda come into my home video on the news. The Lady (Unibrow) claims she sleeps in the same room as her daughter. If she sleeps in the same room as her daughter does her "husband" also come in there when its time for them to attempt to "multiply"? To me that alone would be abusive, no child, esp a small child should be in the same room as their "Parents" in those intimate momments. I didnt see a Husband's room on her tour, but I sure hope their is one!

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

 

[mollymalone]

I've been googling John Walsh and although he's published a few books and and papers about the LDS church I've yet to see anything he's done on the FLDS...oh yeah, he got that info from the media.

Other religions worship god, the FLDS worships their prophet. How is that similiar?

Unless he's referring to God (or Jesus) as a prophet? As far as the tenents of the two religions and the rituals that are followed by both I don't see where they're similar to FLDS.

 

[mollymalone]

Can someone please explain this to me? I've seen the propoganda come into my home video on the news. The Lady (Unibrow) claims she sleeps in the same room as her daughter. If she sleeps in the same room as her daughter does her "husband" also come in there when its time for them to attempt to "multiply"? To me that alone would be abusive, no child, esp a small child should be in the same room as their "Parents" in those intimate momments. I didnt see a Husband's room on her tour, but I sure hope their is one!

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

Spyder, in the living room, you noticed there was the one big chair that looked like a recliner? And the other light blue ones in semi-circles in front of that chair? The head of the household probably has his own house/room where he and the first wife lives and the other wives come to service him at his beck and call. I wouldn't be surprised if the first wife is the one who is sent to fetch them.

 

[SuziQ]

Unless he's referring to God (or Jesus) as a prophet? As far as the tenents of the two religions and the rituals that are followed by both I don't see where they're similar to FLDS.

Lol, I wonder what religion the judge is (if she has one) and what she thought of that comment. Was she sitting there biting her tongue?

 

[mollymalone]

Lol, I wonder what religion the judge is (if she has one) and what she thought of that comment. Was she sitting there biting her tongue?

Maybe this is what she and others were thinking? :slap:

 

[Truly]

The LDS church issued a strong statement today for the media to quit using the term Mormon when referring the polygamist sects. I wonder what they will say to W. John Walsh regarding what he said today? The church rightly or wrongly has not been shy about going after their own scholars. Most of which had turned into renegades. BTW, I think he's a confused idiot. Comparing them to Baptists and Catholics? Sheesh.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/18/polygamy.custody/index.html

Religious scholar John Walsh also addressed a particularly damning piece of evidence: At least one bed found inside a temple that was allegedly used to consummate such marriages immediately after the ceremony.
"Historically, the only use of a bed in a temple is for temple worship itself," said Walsh, who said he has studied the FLDS practices for 18 years. "The worship lasts a couple of hours, so all the temples will have a place where someone can lie down."
But, he said, "To my knowledge, there has never been any sexual activity in a Mormon temple."
Walsh said he also studies the mainstream Mormon church, which renounced polygamy a century ago and has no ties to the FLDS. He said without the polygamy aspect, the FLDS would resemble the Baptist or Catholic religions.

The following quotes are from the san angelo link. They were very different from the quotes above.

Attorneys for fathers call their first witness.
He reels off his education, including a doctorate in religious studies concentrating on Mormonism.
There’s nothing in any of the foundational Scripture that gives the proper age for marriage, he says under questioning.
FLDS considers the Bible the word of God, he says.
As part of the Bible, they teach that women should submit to their husbands, the expert says. But, like Catholic women and other women who adhere to various religions, FLDS women have interpreted that in different ways at different times.
And FLDS women can choose when to get married, he said. Thousands of FLDS members live in the United States, and they don’t all believe the same thing, the expert says.
"The family practices of the FLDS vary from family to family," he says.
Not all of them are polygamists, either, the expert says.
He has studied all this for 18 years, along with studying Judaism, Catholicism and many different Western religions, he said.

The child’s attorney asks about the bed in the temple, an item mentioned in many news reports.
The bed is there, the expert says, because the FLDS members might fast, and when hundreds of people fast, there might be incidences of fainting.
To his knowledge, he says, no sex has occurred in the temple.

Suzi, do you by any chance have a link to the statement which the LDS released? I admit I am unclear as to the distinction between the scriptures of the LDS and the Fundamentalist LDS. Although I see that the press has taken pains to report that they are different, don't the FLDS still call themselves Mormons? Thanks.

 

[SuziQ]

Maybe this is what she and others were thinking? :slap:

Lol, most likely.

 

[Spydernweb]

Spyder, in the living room, you noticed there was the one big chair that looked like a recliner? And the other light blue ones in semi-circles in front of that chair? The head of the household probably has his own house/room where he and the first wife lives and the other wives come to service him at his beck and call. I wouldn't be surprised if the first wife is the one who is sent to fetch them.

Thank you sooo much for the quick and nice response Molly. Sadly I think all this is mind boggling. I cannot imagine the hell its gonna be to even figure out which child legally belongs to which set of "Parents". Hopefully the FLDS will comply nicely with the the Judges order for DNA from Everyone.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

 

[mollymalone]

Thank you sooo much for the quick and nice response Molly. Sadly I think all this is mind boggling. I cannot imagine the hell its gonna be to even figure out which child legally belongs to which set of "Parents". Hopefully the FLDS will comply nicely with the the Judges order for DNA from Everyone.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

You're welcome Spyder.
It is boggling, the sheer amount of work LE/CPS is having to do with their investigation, going through the documents, the genealogies and other media. Then the labs with the dna testing, all the court personnel who have to do the scheduling etc. Not to mention those who are caring for the children, the medical personnel too.

 

[SuziQ]

The following quotes are from the san angelo link. They were very different from the quotes above.



Suzi, do you by any chance have a link to the statement which the LDS released? I admit I am unclear as to the distinction between the scriptures of the LDS and the Fundamentalist LDS. Although I see that the press has taken pains to report that they are different, don't the FDLS still call themselves Mormons? Thanks.

Here it is, video at the below link. It was actually issued yesterday. The FLDS does call themselves Mormon, but the LDS church says they have no right to since they are not LDS and Mormon is a nickname for LDS members.

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnews...h-leader-appeals-to-media-to-make-distinction

 

[SuziQ]

I should probably post this in the other thread. Here is a video on Mormon myths and reality. Interesting to hear how others view the LDS faith. I thought the same things when I first moved to Utah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfOyGTLDqjM

ETA: the video is a bit long and....cheesy. lol.

 

[Truly]

Here it is, video at the below link. It was actually issued yesterday. The FLDS does call themselves Mormon, but the LDS church says they have no right to since they are not LDS and Mormon is a nickname for LDS members.

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnews...h-leader-appeals-to-media-to-make-distinction

Hmmm. So has the LDS officially struck the passages concerning polygamy from the official Book of Mormon? Or not?

Thanks, and I agree this conversation should move over to the other thread. (heading that way... )

 

[Vegas Bride]

Hmmm. So has the LDS officially struck the passages concerning polygamy from the official Book of Mormon? Or not?

Thanks, and I agree this conversation should move over to the other thread. (heading that way... )

The way it was explained to me, when the Mormons profit had the revelation to do away with polygamy, he did not say, "So sayeth the Lord"
Without that being said it is not viewed as a true revelation.

VB

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/04/18/texas-trial.html

Some of the more than 400 children taken from a West Texas polygamist compound are Canadian citizens, a state official said Friday. Angie Voss, who is with Texas Child Protection Services, didn't say how many are Canadian or give their ages or sex. Voss said they would remain in state custody regardless of their citizenship.

Mike Watkiss, a reporter with Phoenix's KTVK, said the citizenship revelation took everyone at the custody hearings a little off guard. "We all sort of sat up and took note," he said, adding that it's been alleged children within the sect have travelled back and forth between the U.S. and Bountiful.

"It's long been suspected that when media or the law enforcement officers start looking for a child [who] may be in distress, that they are often spirited across the border to Canada and vice versa," said Watkiss. Friday's testimony was the first mention of Canadian children, said Watkiss, adding that he didn't know if Canadian authorities were involved in the case.

 

[mollymalone]

On Larry King Live, Journalist Mike Watkiss reporting on the hearing today stated that he thinks that these men will continue to do this behaviour in spite of the raid, their children being taken. He believes they'll just move somewhere else and continue it because they don't think they're doing anything wrong. He believes that because things are too hot in Texas, Az and Utah, they'll go elsewhere. He mentioned Mexico and Canada.

 

[Leila]

I wonder if any of those moms still with their children will take advantage of this opportunity to stay out?

For your efforts to help :blowkiss:

Molly.............I'm hoping there will be some young mothers that will opt to leave with their children. If there ever was a right time for them to escape, it's now. There's people that can help them.

 

[Leila]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I am still wondering why the young girls so out number the boys:waitasec:

Most of people that populate the YFZ ranch in Texas were chosen by Warren Jeffs. He was populating the Texas ranch with his best people, those who were most loyal. He also separated children under 6 from their parents in Colorado City, AZ and Hildale, UT (possibly other communities) and sent them to Texas. It would appear that Jeffs sent more female than male children.

So the population may not reflect a normal community, with the normal ratio of male and female children. The ranch was built in 2003 and although I'm not certain of when people were sent there, I would think by late 2004 there were families moving there. So, the ranch has only been in existence for 3 - 4 years.