France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #1

[Momoffourboys]

How many lives could have been saved in the concert hall if just 10 people were carrying a weapon?

IMO None.
This happened so fast. No one knew or expected this to be a terrorist attack.

 

[cottonweaver]

Very sad to see crowds panicking in both Place de la Republique (and also Marais) , due to false alarms where people had been gathering to pay respects and light candles, sing songs of solidarity and we are not afraid.



same site as before, live feed site

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...s-live-updates#block-5648bf32e4b06fb53392c85a

 

[margarita25]

(Can you imagine, just being at a restaurant or concert or game and then all of a sudden...I think my last 3 words, if not I love you, or don't shoot me (as were the last words of the Colorado Springs rampage shooter victim this past Halloween) would have been WTF...)

No words...Seeing these people's faces make it all the more real.
:candle:

 

[K_Z]

Being an immigrant means starting over (unless you moved to a new country because of a job offer).

Being a refugee fleeing an active war means staying temporarily in a country that will offer you safe harbor until you can GO HOME. Showing up and then demanding better food, better living conditions etc....is NOT acceptable. If they don't like what is provided they can leave.

Agreed. However, the overwhelming majority of refugees never return to their country of origin. They remain in a refugee status for decades, many of them. I'm not sure what the path to citizenship for refugees is these days. IMO, given the dangerous and foolish policies of the current administration, any middle eastern Islamic "refugees" that come to the U. S. will probably be given automatic citizenship or something. IDK.

Despite what the msm news is reporting, IMO, we should all be alert for terror attacks in the U.S. in the next 8 weeks. It's the holiday season, with lots of soft targets. And ISIS couldn't hate us any more than they do already. But I'm prior military, so I have a different outlook on the situation. I think a bio or chemical attack is imminent. JMO.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Social media has played a huge part in this tragedy but here's an interesting article called "Social media rumours about the Paris attacks that shouldn't be believed":

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/paris-attacks-social-media-rumours#.fvegl3lvg

 

[Mrs G Norris]

A lot of people have criticized immigrants from the Middle East for not assimilating to the culture of their new country. I agree that if you move somewhere you should expect to change culturally over time, however I just think it's important to say that this does take a long time. My family came from Lebanon to Australia in the 1880's, however the men still went back to Lebanon to choose a wife until my grandfathers generation, he broke the mould and married an Australian, also even my great grandparents never learned to speak English even though my great grandfather was born here. They were all successful merchants and owned property however, even though it look generations to assimilate.

We have to give people time, we can't expect migrants to adjust inside a generation or two, that won't happen. It doesn't mean they're not embracing their new country or committed.

The fact that terrorists came to Europe in the recent influx is not a surprise either, I think we all knew that would happen. I feel like we as the allies have made an absolute mess of the Middle East, whatever we were trying to achieve there has obviously failed. This whole situation is a travesty.

 

[Bravo]

How many lives could have been saved in the concert hall if just 10 people were carrying a weapon?

I dont know but I worry that those fleeing in panic could be shot accidently. There was more than one terrorist. It's a tough call for sure.
ETA- then there is the fact that a hand gun is competing with an AK47

 

[cottonweaver]

Agreed. However, the overwhelming majority of refugees never return to their country of origin. They remain in a refugee status for decades, many of them. I'm not sure what the path to citizenship for refugees is these days. IMO, given the dangerous and foolish policies of the current administration, any middle eastern Islamic "refugees" that come to the U. S. will probably be given automatic citizenship or something. IDK.

Despite what the msm news is reporting, IMO, we should all be alert for terror attacks in the U.S. in the next 8 weeks. It's the holiday season, with lots of soft targets. And ISIS couldn't hate us any more than they do already. But I'm prior military, so I have a different outlook on the situation. I think a bio or chemical attack is imminent. JMO.

Hate to say that I agree with you on their ability to soon source alternative weapons. Especially when at the French Stadium it was so difficult for the attackers to pass through security with their vests due to the pat downs.

As a Brit and a child through the 70s & 80's we lived through this ever -present fear of terrorist bombs ( IRA) and lost many innocent people but not on the scales of the 9/11 and 7/7, Madrid attacks of late.
Nonetheless when the IRA bomb exploded in Manchester, England and I was living only a mile away, it blew my patio doors in.
Still, we could try and be resolved & defiant as the Parisians are trying "Meme pas peur" BUT when the risk of a chemical attack becomes a dreadful possibility .....that is a very different proposition.

 

[Snick1946]

<BBM for Focus>
Snick1946, I was scratching my head, hollering at the TV, 'go rescue these victims', and wondering why police were delaying the rescue of the hostages, which were being summarily executed one by one. The assumption that it was a hostage situation excuse doesn't hold water, imo. The continuous firing of the AK47s/Kalashnikovs in the concert hall would have ruled out a hostage situation.

This assumption is similar to when planes were being hijacked in the USA before 09/11/2001. They were normally rerouted to Cuba, then returned to the USA, without harm to the passengers. Instead, the planes were used as weapons of mass destruction on that tragic day..
The 1st rule of Public Safety; 'plan for the worst case scenario and hope for the best one'.. This rule was violated by the incident commander of the first responding authorities, due to their hesitation at the concert hall on the night of 11/13/2015, and additional lives were lost, imo..

I may be mistaken but wasn't there a similar story about the Columbine shootings in 1999? LE took an agonizingly long time to enter the building because they were following some dumb protocol about negotiating. Also I seem to recall there was some incredible stupid thing about different LE agencies arguing about jurisdiction. Parents of the kids were screaming at the cops.

I agree with many of you that it is only a matter of time, perhaps weeks before ISIS does an event in the US. I pray to God we don't repeat the mistakes that followed 9-11 if that happens. Do not be misled into trashing the Constitution or some military adventure having little or no connection to the event.

 

[Bravo]

I may be mistaken but wasn't there a similar story about the Columbine shootings in 1999? LE took an agonizingly long time to enter the building because they were following some dumb protocol about negotiating. Also I seem to recall there was some incredible stupid thing about different LE agencies arguing about jurisdiction. Parents of the kids were screaming at the cops.

I agree with many of you that it is only a matter of time, perhaps weeks before ISIS does an event in the US. I pray to God we don't repeat the mistakes that followed 9-11 if that happens. Do not be misled into trashing the Constitution or some military adventure having little or no connection to the event.

I do believe it was Columbine which changed how LE now responds In the U.S.

 

[margarita25]

Social media has played a huge part in this tragedy but here's an interesting article called "Social media rumours about the Paris attacks that shouldn't be believed":

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/paris-attacks-social-media-rumours#.fvegl3lvg

Interesting that you should post this. I was looking to make a slight pun about Reddit and the Boston Marathon bombers, but nothing remotely lighthearted seemed in good taste yesterday.

(Ill admit it I spent an all-nighter or more here staring at those marathon pics, trying to pick people out...but boy...)

I think this article is highly relevant (even though I haven't read it yet lol) because it is a reminder of the potential extra scrutinization that some possibly innocent people may now face (and a reminder why the mods are so good about making sure SM rumors do not enter our cases here).

 

[Momoffourboys]

Immigration is a very touchy subject, IMO. Especially during these extremely volatile times.

The Naturalization exam is administered in foreign languages for those who qualify..
So, you can be a full fledged US citizen and not speak a word of English.

Interesting...

 

[ZaZara]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/paris-attacks-terrorist-suspect-ahmed-6836199

One of the terrorists involved in the horrific attacks in Paris on Friday evening was reportedly rescued by Greek authorities from a refugee boat that sank off the coast of Greece last month.

The UK Mirror, citing Serbian and Greek media sources, says that 25-year-old Ahmed Almuhamed and another family member were rescued October 3. They were processed as refugees, but there had been no way to verify whether their identity documents were real. They were transferred to another vessel and continued their journey.


BBM


this comes from another source that is *** here, so I added the original link

 

[FLmom777]

Not long ago I read an article about Muslim immigrants/refugees (can't remember which) living in Minnesota. They are given free health care, free housing and free food cards The women receiving these benefits are now demanding better food claiming what they are given does not meet their religious requirements. These women are not being asked to work. The government is simply handing over all their needs. In contrast, I have work since I was 16. I recently lost my job and health insurance. I was able to find a part time job quickly but health insurance would cost me over $500 per month. I am 59 years old and have paid taxes all these years but cannot get my government to help me. These women are being given all these benefits without even being asked to contribute to society. Few weeks ago I fell and broke my arm. It required surgery and a short stay in the hospital. I will be paying for this the rest of my life. What is wrong with this picture?

 

[cottonweaver]

Turkish officials have said that they foiled a major terror plot on Istanbul, on the same day as the Paris attacks.

"Meanwhile, senior Iraqi intelligence officials are said to have warned coalition countries of imminent assaults by Isis just one day before last week&#8217;s deadly attacks, according to the Associate press.

Iraqi intelligence sent a dispatch saying the group&#8217;s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, had ordered an attack on coalition countries fighting against them in Iraq and Syria, as well as on Iran and Russia, &#8220;through bombings or assassinations or hostage taking in the coming days.&#8221;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...s-live-updates#block-5648bf32e4b06fb53392c85a

 

[cottonweaver]

More details have been released from the foiled plot in Turkey:

Police on Friday detained five people in Istanbul, the source told AFP, including a suspected close associate of the notorious Isis militant known as &#8220;Jihadi John&#8221; who Washington believes was likely killed in a recent drone strike in Syria.
[...] Aine Lesley Davis - like &#8220;Jihadi John&#8221; a British citizen who guarded foreign prisoners in Syria - was among the IS suspects detained in a swoop in Istanbul.

Davis, a London-born British Muslim who turned to Islamist militancy, has been described by British media in the past as a key figure in the network of IS in Syria.
Davis and the other four fellow jihadists had crossed into Turkey from Syria at an unspecified date.

 

[leah]

Immigration is a very touchy subject, IMO. Especially during these extremely volatile times.

The Naturalization exam is administered in foreign languages for those who qualify..
So, you can be a full fledged US citizen and not speak a word of English.

Interesting...

And another topic that I will not discuss with family and friends. The only safe topic is the weather. I don't like being neutered, that is why coming here, discussions like this help me see different points of view, without getting into trouble with people I know.

 

[margarita25]

(I just want to say that while this is such an awful situation, it's an honor to hear different people's perspectives here and have a flowing discussion with up to date msm being posted from various sources. I consider all of this to be highly educational...the ripples and implications around the world, it's all really deep...a subject that encompasses a multitude of sensitive facets including politics and religion...thanks to everyone...)

 

[cottonweaver]

As well as suspects arrested Friday in Istanbul....

Meanwhile, senior Iraqi intelligence officials are said to have warned coalition countries of imminent assaults by Isis just one day before last week&#8217;s deadly attacks, according to the Associate press.

Iraqi intelligence sent a dispatch saying the group&#8217;s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, had ordered an attack on coalition countries fighting against them in Iraq and Syria, as well as on Iran and Russia, &#8220;through bombings or assassinations or hostage taking in the coming days.&#8221;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...s-live-updates#block-5648bf32e4b06fb53392c85a

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The scary thing about the influx of refugees into Europe is that a number of people had no paperwork at all, and some of it was thrown away along the journey. So it stands to reason that terrorists would have taken advantage of the open borders to plant themselves inside countries, like Germany, where they will be enjoying the benefits that country provides whilst planning the next attack. This is not the fault of the genuine refugees, but nobody can tell the difference.