France - Machine Gun attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo #1

[bettybaby00]

First posted by another poster on different thread..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

"Brigitte Gabriel gives FANTASTIC answer to Muslim woman claiming all Muslims are portrayed badly "

She has been on FOX a lot lately and she "gets it". She is very honest and not afraid to talk about the things that need to be talked about.

Another great FOX + CNN reporter that "gets it" is a scholar named = (Reza Aslan). He fully understands the issues and is not afraid to discuss them.

It takes courage and we have to get away from being so politically correct that we do not discuss what needs to be discussed and solved. The only way to solve issues is to discuss them openly and honestly.

Saw this awhile ago, and was literally cheering her on!

Hatfield. ICA with your comments. I don't want to get into the politics of this, but the PC issues in the US aren't going anywhere any time soon.

all MOO Nd all that

 

[Mrs G Norris]

"Je ne suis pas Charlie": the widow of Charb denounces hypocrisy after her husband was murdered

Welingelichte Kringen reports about an interview by French News Channel TF1 with Jeannette Bougrab, widow of cartoonist Charb
http://www.welingelichtekringen.nl/...b-hekelt-hypocrisie-na-moord-op-haar-man.html

Translation:

On Thursday, on the French news channel TF1, Jeannette BOUGRAB, the widow of murdered Charlie Hebdo cartoonist Charb (whose name was Stéphan Charbonnier) was critical about 'the people who today are marching behind the Je suis Charlie-banner, but who did not open their mouth when her husband and the other victims were accused of racism and Islamophobia'.

Charlie Hebdo - which is now being talked and written about as if it were the backbone of French democracy, was actually a languishing marginal leaflet.

"They lived on donations to survive. They were blamed. Our republic is guilty. This massacre could have been avoided if we had shown more solidarity. We must ask ourselves why that has not happened."

"I loved him for who he was. Someone who was willing to die for his ideals. How many people do you know like that? And for the rest I do not want to know anything at all. Let them throw those barbarians in jail and keep them there. I do not want know anything about their youth. I do not want to hear excuses about executioners who kill innocents. "

"Charb knew he was going to die and we have repeatedly thought about leaving France. I blame myself that I did not manage to convince him of that.
That he laughed about the threats is a lie. He did not laugh. He was a militant for the freedom of opinion.
He lived with fear and knew that he - like Theo Van Gogh - would be executed, '' BOUGRAB, who was Secretary of State in the government of François Fillon, said. "Those who live with the sword of Damocles hanging over the head, they do not laugh."

BBM

Yes, I think she is quite right, I found an old story about Charlie Hebdo from Australia yesterday and it tells the tale of the response to the cartoons and magazine before the massacre, it was very different.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...prophet-mohammed/story-fnd134gw-1226477532876

This cartoon sums up the attitude of many in the press before this massacre.


https://latuffcartoons.wordpress.com/tag/charlie-hebdo/

Note the tags: September 19, 2012 | Categories: Cartoons | Tags: cartoons, Charb, Charlie Hebdo, Islamophobia, Latuff, Prophet Mohammed | Leave a comment

I have mixed feelings about the editorial line of the magazine too, I think many do, but this horror and the idea that we should be subject to Sharia law and punished accordingly is horrific.

 

[Waddles]

crystalgenie, you never offend, I find your posts informative. Waddles, you and others, I certainly don't know much on this topic, and between learning more, and having first hand accounts from people that live or have lived in France is fascinating. Thank-you

Thank you leah!

 

[Hatfield]

Where the issue goes off its rails for me is, when the faith that is predicated on a prophet's written instruction is said to have been distorted by people...who are following the instruction...where was there a hijacking? This is the dilemma that I see for those such as the new Egyptian leadership. It's one thing to oppose the Muslim Brotherhood. It's another to oppose the text that informs the establishment of non-democratic governments and denial of basic liberty, then claim that the text prohibits violence and oppression, and it was maligned in some way.

But I agree that this leader is a refreshing change from the usual leadership in that region.

On another note, why do US presidents feel a need to publicly designate Islam as a peaceful religion? George Bush launched that as a national narrative. Has any US president ever said "Christianity is a peaceful religion"? Have we had annual Communion activities at the White House? Yet we host Ramadan dinners.

The US is afraid of the Islamic world and our journos are official spokespersons for the marketing program of Islamic governments. JMO.

Again some very good points.

You are right that a big dilemna is that some of the actual wordings in the texts have to be dealt with, however, I think this can be overcome if things arent taken "literally" and a mutually agreed upon "interpretation" can be made by the leaders and Imans. That is no small feat I realize that. However, it must be dealt with and accomplished. Once the masses can agree to accept such intrepetation of the specific parts of the text that cause most of the trouble, then they can be on a path to correct and stop the extremists. Once the majority of believers and followers begin to adapt the new interpretation, then the extremist numbers will fall off to become insignficant.
No small task of course, but it can be done.

I had mentioned the other day where the bible itself has certain parts that most all people that believe in the bible understand that we don't take it literally and we also realize the book was written way back in a time when certain things were acceptable. However, with modern court system and modern democratic principles, our society has developed better ways to deal with things. (example taking an eye for eye). So its not like we are going against the words of the bible per se. Its just that humans have evolved and developed into working societies that no longer have to use the old methods.
It is this sort of approach that I feel can work in transforming the problem texts (if there are any as I admit I am not educated at all with Kuran).

For the political part. I agree as well. Our president and politicians have let political correctness go to the extreme to where real issues and real world problems are just being shoved under a rug and ignored. We must get away from that and be honest and upfront about the real issues and root causes of those issues. It has to start with our leaders because they provide the example for all of us to follow and if they are white-washing things and painting them as something else, that serves no purpose whatsoever. Its going to take some new leaders I am afraid. Especially here in US where I live because I have lost all faith in our current president to deal with things like this.

 

[Hatfield]

Life is completely normal today -people are shopping in the sales, tourists are everywhere, business almost as usual. I am walking about a bit stunned really, not fully coming to terms with what has happened these last few days and yet obsessed with it and latching at opportunities to discuss it with people, either heartened that they feel the exact same way and more, and have things to share with me that shed light on things for me, or expand my thinking, or on the contrary disappointed that they don't want to talk about it or surprised they feel differently or they wonder why I'm so preoccupied with it.

In the end what can we do, this has happened and we have to be outraged, we can't stand for this but we can't let fear control our lives. People at Airbnb apartments I manage (one of my many freelance jobs) are asking me if it is still safe to visit and I can only tell them it is, I mean it has to be! How do we know anything? The metros and trains were bombed in 1995 and then nothing really major after for 20 years -how can we know? It could be any day, it could be next week or next year but we have to live! I'm scared but I at the same time I refuse to be scared, I'm confused really as many people are. I'm devastated for all the victims' families and for all those whose lives have changed forever as a result of this.

My only comfort has been discussion and support with friends on Facebook, sharing our shock and outrage, and most of all standing alone at Republique square, and for the first time in 20 years here, feeling very much part of this community, as if I was standing with family and friends among strangers who all feel as strongly about this as me, and more. A conservative looking well-dressed elderly couple standing beside me whispered and had a giggle that this gathering must have been organised by young socialists and yet they chanted along, were content and wanted to be there and at that moment we had no differences, no class difference, no political or religious difference. If you wanted to move forward or backward in the crowd the way just parted like magic, no one pushed or resisted and I didn't even need to say excuse me, everyone was so calm, so serene. It was so comforting to feel Parisian and part of a community. In the past I have struggled with things like cultural differences and sexual harassment and things but that was all gone, I felt so united with them and realised I was them. A very powerful and defining moment for me, an expat New Zealander.

My French mother is brave, she heard all the shots from the kosher store located a few minutes down her very road, the detonations, wondering how many people were dying each time - she got up this morning and went down there and laid flowers. I love my maman! She and I are going to march together tomorrow and I look forward to it, I think it will be healing for everyone.

This probably sounds all quite silly but I felt like sharing this with you guys!

I also want to thank Waddles and the other local or previous local people that have been sharing their posts. It really helps us when we have people that know the area and know some of the issues first hand.

So THANK YOU

 

[LietKynes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-29...e-kebab-shop-near-Muslim-temple-blown-up.html

Mosques, a prayer hall and a kebab shop near a Muslim temple were targeted

This is not the answer. How do acts of revenge violence (where innocent people could he hurt) make the attackers any better than the terrorists they're confronting ?

A second victim - a street cleaner who was shot in the face after he confronted the gunman
---So many heroes in this tragedy. Also the brave person who tried to grab one of the terrorist's guns at the grocery store.

:moo:

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Turkish intelligence official says female suspect in France attacks went through Turkey, 'disappeared' near Syria: http://t.co/gKwaZYm9jX


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charli...boumeddiene-hunted-by-french-police-1.2896462
bbm.

"A circular distributed by French police said Boumeddiene should be considered dangerous and potentially armed.
.She is the possible key to helping authorities dismantle what could be a terrorist network. Boumeddiene is the most wanted woman in France and she is originally of Algerian descent . She reportedly became radicalized when she began her relationship with Coulibaly.

According to a number of French media outlets, Boumeddienne apparently fled Paris ahead of the attacks. She reportedly crossed the border into Spain and then flew from Madrid to Istanbul and made her way to Syria."

 

[Hatfield]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-29...e-kebab-shop-near-Muslim-temple-blown-up.html

Mosques, a prayer hall and a kebab shop near a Muslim temple were targeted

This is not the answer. How do acts of revenge violence (where innocent people could he hurt) make the attackers any better than the terrorists they're confronting ?

A second victim - a street cleaner who was shot in the face after he confronted the gunman
---So many heroes in this tragedy. Also the brave person who tried to grab one of the terrorist's guns at the grocery store.

:moo:

I totally agree that is not the answer to have any kind of retalitory events. That is so sad to hear and it becomes a vicious cycle. I think this is where our leaders need to step up to the plate and help the people understand that they will take some serious steps to address radical extremists.
Once the leaders do that, then the public and people will be less apt to feel they need to do anything themselves.

There is always a small subset of people that use these sorts of events as an excuse to be criminals themselves and that is sad.

I also agree about the many heroes. France handled the crisis very well IMO. Many heroes. Good Job France.

 

[Waddles]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901874/Revenge-attacks-retaliation-begin-Mosques-come-fire-guns-grenades-France-kebab-shop-near-Muslim-temple-blown-up.html

Mosques, a prayer hall and a kebab shop near a Muslim temple were targeted

This is not the answer. How do acts of revenge violence (where innocent people could he hurt) make the attackers any better than the terrorists they're confronting ?

A second victim - a street cleaner who was shot in the face after he confronted the gunman
---So many heroes in this tragedy. Also the brave person who tried to grab one of the terrorist's guns at the grocery store.

:moo:

Aaaaargh this really sucks, it's senseless - I'm always too hesitant to say it for fear of distancing people but I am an atheist, I fear religion will be our downfall, even as far into our evolution as 2015 we are killing each other over beliefs. I believe in humanity, though I can only hope we will not allow crazies to dictate our lives and freedoms to believe in what we want to believe and in and what gives us peace.

 

[Fifth Avenue]

BREAKING: Terror sleeper cells have been activated in France over the last 24 hours, police source tells CNN

Also, law enforcement officers told to carry weapons.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Waddles]

BREAKING: Terror sleeper cells have been activated in France over the last 24 hours, police source tells CNN

Also, law enforcement officers told to carry weapons.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh my, really? And I'm telling people it was an isolated incident and they can still come here. I'm trying to stay serene but this is scary.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Brigitte-Gabriel-Anjem-Choudary-Islam/2015/01/08/id/617344/

"Gabriel — whose non-profit, non-partisan, grassroots group promotes national security and the defeat of terrorism — said Wednesday's terror attack in Paris is tragic, but not unexpected thanks to Europe's long apathy on immigration.

"Because Europe ignored the Islamic cancer of terrorism and radicalism rising within its midst for the last 30 or 40 years, look at what they're dealing with today," Gabriel said.

"Europe could've dealt with the problem very early on in the 80s when the Islamists began organizing, especially after they brought in their family members … started multiplying … started using the government's welfare system to basically grow their families.

"The Europeans turned the blind eye thinking 'Well, we're uncomfortable with it, but we don't really care as long as we have cheap labor.' "

I find her aggressive and bigoted frankly, and dislike the way she spoke to the muslim woman who asked the question. Arrogant IMO. Her rhetoric is inflammatory, I believe this issue needs to be largely solved by Islam and peaceful Muslims myself, treating the large majority so badly is not the way unite and work on the issue. This 'lady' is not going the right way if you ask me.

One lady speaks out, she is rude and aggressive to her, then she asks that lady where are the others, and everyone cheers? Does she really need to wonder why others do not speak out, if only to be shot down and lectured? Rude and unhelpful, do not understand why everyone applauds her public bullying of this woman.

'You took the limelight' << nasty mischaracterisation, 'So are you an American?' .. etc I could go on.

 

[Hatfield]

Aaaaargh this really sucks, it's senseless - I'm always too hesitant to say it for fear of distancing people but I am an atheist, I fear religion will be our downfall, even as far into our evolution as 2015 we are killing each other over beliefs. I believe in humanity, though I can only hope we will not allow crazies to dictate our lives and freedoms to believe in what we want to believe and in and what gives us peace.

That is totally understandable and there are many others here in WS that also believe the same, so dont feel bad at all.

I see it all the time how certain religions alienate people. Sometimes, they do more harm themselves to their own cause and beliefs.

I can think of 2 specific instances where I was offended myself by members of a certain faith and they turned me away right from the get-go. I ran away as fast as i could. One was a church I had considered being a member of. I am of the type where I am somewhat shy and would not want to participate in extra-curricular church activities. At least not on day 1. LOL
Sure enough as i visited this church for the very first time, it all went kind of normal till the very end when a member approached me and asked if I could volunteer to help take up collections next Sunday. Uhhhhhh, excuse me mam? Did you actually ask me just now to get up in front of people next week and get stared at by everyone? Sorry, I am not ready for that nor am of the type that like to do that sort of thing. I dont mind volunteering behind the scenes in other ways, but that incident was enough to make me run for the hills.

And it wasnt so much her asking me as it was her smug attitude when I declined. She tried to throw a huge guilt trip on me when I declined.

Just one simple example of how religions themselves can scare people away. It is very understandable when people get turned off by them.

 

[wendiesan]

Shocked by the news of the atrocity, anger flooded my system--the old fight or flight instinctive response to any danger of this magnitude, I guess.

This cartoon represents pretty well the feelings I had at that moment. How much better to draw out the anger, pencil on paper, than retaliate against people who may have had nothing to do with the murders.



Mois aussi. Je suis un Charlie.

 

[Waddles]

Thank you Hatfield! :blowkiss:

 

[ZaZara]

First posted by another poster on different thread..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

"Brigitte Gabriel gives FANTASTIC answer to Muslim woman claiming all Muslims are portrayed badly "

Thanks for posting.

I was reminded of that video and her powerful words when I read that the neigbours of the Kouachi brothers had been aware for months that the brothers were praying all day and had a house full of weapons. They saw those weapons with their own eyes. They told no one. They did not alert the police. It is said that they were scared and they well may have been. It is also mentioned that the contacts between police and the local community are not good, and that may also have been the case. But neither needed to have stopped them from preventing the tragedy and the massacre that now has happened.

So much for the peacful majority. Even the ones who had the power to stop this, did nothing.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/w...eighbour-says/article22372220/?service=mobile

A neighbour in Gennevilliers told The Globe and Mail that she and her husband became so concerned about the behaviour of the Kouachi brothers – whom they could hear loudly reciting the Koran inside their apartment at all hours – that her husband and a friend decided to break in to the Kouachi residence when the brothers left to buy groceries. She said they found a “cache of arms” inside.

She said they were caught when the brothers returned home, and that they shoved her husband around and threatened him into silence. That was two months ago.

 

[dotr]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/10/europe/charlie-hebdo-paris-shooting/index.html?eref=edition

"French law enforcement officers have been told to erase their social media presence and to carry their weapons at all times because terror sleeper cells have been activated over the last 24 hours in the country, a French police source who attended a briefing Saturday told CNN Terror Analyst Samuel Laurent.

Ahmedy Coulibaly, a suspect killed Friday during a deadly Kosher market hostage siege, had made several phone calls about targeting police officers in France.

The alert came as the lone remaining suspect wanted in connection with a terrorism spree -- Hayat Boumeddiene -- entered Turkey on January 2, a Turkish prime ministry source told CNN Saturday.

Turkish police have tracked her movements, according to the source"

 

[SStarr33]

I find her aggressive and bigoted frankly, and dislike the way she spoke to the muslim woman who asked the question. Arrogant IMO. Her rhetoric is inflammatory, I believe this issue needs to be largely solved by Islam and peaceful Muslims myself, treating the large majority so badly is not the way unite and work on the issue. This 'lady' is not going the right way if you ask me.

One lady speaks out, she is rude and aggressive to her, then she asks that lady where are the others, and everyone cheers? Does she really need to wonder why others do not speak out, if only to be shot down and lectured? Rude and unhelpful, do not understand why everyone applauds her public bullying of this woman.

'You took the limelight' << nasty mischaracterisation, 'So are you an American?' .. etc I could go on.

She's sick of people being PC. She has been harping on this stuff for years and there are more and more terrorist events and the PC bunch is still freaking worried about people's fee fees.

This ain't rocket science and she knows it.

 

[SStarr33]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/10/europe/charlie-hebdo-paris-shooting/index.html?eref=edition

"French law enforcement officers have been told to erase their social media presence and to carry their weapons at all times because terror sleeper cells have been activated over the last 24 hours in the country, a French police source who attended a briefing Saturday told CNN Terror Analyst Samuel Laurent.

Ahmedy Coulibaly, a suspect killed Friday during a deadly Kosher market hostage siege, had made several phone calls about targeting police officers in France.

The alert came as the lone remaining suspect wanted in connection with a terrorism spree -- Hayat Boumeddiene -- entered Turkey on January 2, a Turkish prime ministry source told CNN Saturday.

Turkish police have tracked her movements, according to the source"

Why don't they carry their weapons at all times? Maybe they are talking about when they are off duty?