GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

... maybe by the time he goes to college I will finally be able to rest.

Don't bet on it! My older daughter was truly like an angel until she got to be about 14. The last two years have become progressively more difficult, and have aged me about ten years. Everytime I think that it's about time for it to become easier, it becomes more difficult yet. Once they're in college, I think we'll worry more because they're out of our site more, and then we've got to send money to them, to boot!

 

[StillTrouble74]

If I may poke my head out again to toss in my 2 cents?


I have three kids, and I see danger at every corner, even now that the oldest is approaching 15

However, I want them cautious, not paranoid.
they play alone outside not just dependent upon age, but according to each child's own development and maturity.

my first child, at age 2 was napping upstairs in her bed, I headed down to the basement, so now there were 2 floors between us. Changed a load of laundry and headed back up.. how long does this take?? certainly not a full 5 minutes if you actually calculated how long 5 minutes can be.
Either way, as i wandered back into the living room with my basket of laundry to be folded I heard the screen door slam, and I saw the lil brown curls go bouncing their way down the sidewalk./
I took off after her, she saw me coming and began to run, giggling all the way thinking this was a fun game. By the time I reached her she had made it almost a half a block down. mind you I lived on a side street, HOWEVER, she has reached the end of the road, had I been 3 seconds behind her, she could have made it into the very busy intersection at the end of our block
I prefer not to think of the what ifs, they would make me insane

accidents happen, most are preventable, but you can't sufficate your children, they do need room to grow, explore, and learn

And I know someone will tell me I am unreasonable
but I can NOT fathom any reason in the middle of the day with 2 active toddlers about, that I would be alone in the bathroom for 5 full minutes, much less 15
and Yes, I have normal bodily functions too
but doors stayed open a crack or I made a quick job of what I was doing in there, waited to relax and enjoy my time after bed, or when another responsible adult was home
If she knew these kids were able to remove themselves from the home
and she was the only one home
I simply dont grasp her concept of dawdling about in any area of the home


again, s'just me and my big mouth

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I think the kids could have made it to the pond by themselves. What doesn't sound right is the length of time the Mom said she was in the bathroom. I've heard 5 minutes...then 15 minutes. If either was the case, she could have probably found them before they got very far....had she started looking for them. Maybe she just didn't start searching for them until much later than she said she did.

My husband lost my son in the mall about nine years ago, and I can't even explain what your mind experiences during a time like that. First you run one way, then you think of something and run the other way, then you think of something else and run back again ... over & over & over. You can't think straight; you can't breath ... you don't know what to do first. And after it's over, you can't remember it clearly, and you're physically exhausted.

To me, it's quite possible that she did a bit of the running back & forth, calling their names, running & picking up the phone, running back out, etc.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If she knew these kids were able to remove themselves from the home
and she was the only one home
I simply dont grasp her concept of dawdling about in any area of the home

Good post. May I add too that we're not talking about a 4,000 sq. ft. home. We're talking about a trailier. I'm not sure how easy it would be to not be able to hear/see what's going on, but they look pretty small. How hard would it have been to corral them into a safe part of the home given their propensity to leave out the front door?

 

[Morag]

--for your defense of bad mothers like me! My 16 year old son spent weeks at camp when he was 8, rode the train to another city and used their public transport system when he was 14, hiked and camped many a mountain with just a few peers. Now he is a junior in booarding school heading for a term in Europe. He is adventurous and gregarious, but he understands the need for caution in his life. Some people are destined to be bold in their lives, and our son was from almost day one--angelic in looks and attitude, but a leader of a band of "outdoor boys", building those forts and climbing those trees.

I have to admit, I must be a bad mother, as I just dont even try to watch my kids every minute of their lives. I didnt take them to the bathroom with me. I let them play outside. I let them get out of my sight. They've spent hours building forts and tree houses in the woods with their buddies. Ive packed them lunches and let them head off on an adventure looking for snakes and horned toads. They've "camped out" in our back yard, as well as in their friends back yards. Last summer, my then 16 year old went on his first camping trip with just he and his buddies, no adults, some 100 miles away. Of course I worried, but it was something they needed to do, and something I, as a parent, needed to let them do. The experiences they gain from such adventures are priceless. My daughter has gone away to band camp since grade 6. Do I know everyone at the camp? no way...it's just not possible to do so. Again, I worried, but felt the experience was one she will remember forever.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

... Brenda Johnson, who said she has known the family for about four years, said she and her husband went to the couple's home Saturday night after they learned the children were missing. She said she stayed with Kain while her husband joined the search that included 150 people, heat-seeking devices, infrared radar and dogs.

"She didn't seem emotional," Johnson said. She said Kain told her she thought a vindictive neighbor had taken the children and hidden them as a way to get back at her.

Johnson, who said she had baby-sat for the two children, said the mother would leave them unattended and that she did not keep a clean house...


(Nice friend. Telling this stuff to investigators is one thing. Telling it to reporters is quite another.)

Interesting, did she live by them in Arizona??? I thought that they only lived in Georgia for one year or so??

 

[PrayersForMaura]

My husband lost my son in the mall about nine years ago, and I can't even explain what your mind experiences during a time like that. First you run one way, then you think of something and run the other way, then you think of something else and run back again ... over & over & over. You can't think straight; you can't breath ... you don't know what to do first. And after it's over, you can't remember it clearly, and you're physically exhausted.

To me, it's quite possible that she did a bit of the running back & forth, calling their names, running & picking up the phone, running back out, etc.

While it's quite possible --- and I'd like to give the mother the benefit of the doubt but it's been hard --- I doubt she did a lot of "running back & forth" if it took her around 30 minutes to notice the first time at 4pm that her kids were outside unattended. If it is true, in fact, that the neighbor brought the kids back ...

 

[browneyes]

Five minutes is too long to leave children that age unattended. My youngest two were only a year apart and I would bring them with me, put them in a dry tub with some toys and let them play while I did whatever it was that I needed to do. If I was showering, they played on the floor of the bathroom.

Regarding the mother going out in public . . . why? Why go outside? I'll never understand why people feel they "owe" it to the media to expose thier grief for the world to see.

I know if this happened to me, I would not be able to face the media...I would be devastated and most likely sedated.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I'm not saying that kids that young don't have good memories, but to know exactly where to go?? Has it been said that their parents took them there? Wasn't that place some kind of sanitation pond or something?? Not someplace parents would usually take their kids. IMO

I agree but it has been said that the mother would take the kids out for walks. I don't know if they had seen it at some point in the journeys with their mom.

Also, if that pond was only several hundred yards away, I don't think it's that unlikely that the kids made it there during that 5-15 minutes. And if there was a lot of brush or woods between the house & the pond, there's nothing to say that they made it to the pond in 15 minutes; they might have just made it to a spot where their mother couldn't see them from the yard anymore.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Timez and Morag, I don't think either of you are bad parents. Things that happen in our own lives shape how we raise our children, I believe. First, my parents were police officers, so we heard horrible life stories. Then, my little sister was taken in the middle of the night and murdered. All of my remaining sisters are the way I am with their own children. Its both exhausing, time consuming and expensive to raise our children the way we do, but its the only way we can have piece of mind.

The world is made up of all different kinds of people. That's what makes it great.

In the instant case, however, I think the mother will be arrested shortly, unfortunately.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

My girlfriend has left shoes on her daughter all day since she was about 3 months old....she also makes her wear slippers if she doesn't have shoes on. She just turned one last week and I never see her without shoes.

My kids did not wear their shoes in the house....except when they were learning to walk and needed the support.

I can't help but think if their shoes would've been off, maybe they wouldn't have been so tempted to go outside and walk as far as they supposedly did.
However, I am just grasping at straws. Nothing is going to bring them back now, unfortunately...

 

[browneyes]

You're very welcome, kgeaux. It was a solution I had come up with when the baby was first starting to climb the stairs. I was doing some dishes while she was playing on the floor behind me. My husband had come into the kitchen, and then left again. The baby was also gone so I had assumed that he took her. Meanwhile, he assumed she was still playing on the floor behind me. In reality, she was almost at the top of the steps. Thank God she didn't get hurt. It was at that point that I imposed my new "system" on everyone - lol. I'm very glad to share it if it can help!

P.S. When we first started doing this, if my son was playing with the baby, and she crawled off to a room where my older daughter was, he would simply yell to my older daughter that the baby was in there, and that she had to watch her. BUT he didn't bother to get a response! So I had to explain to him that you MUST get verification from the other person that THEY KNOW that they are now watching the baby or it does no good. I think we've worked out the kinks now.

We use this "system" too with all the little ones in the family....especially at my Moms because she has a pool. We just don't assume that someone knows the child has come in from the pool....we make sure someone is watching that child and will tell someone if he/she wants to return outside/inside or to the pool.

Another 12 year old is missing near Tampa Florida. :doh:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I know if this happened to me, I would not be able to face the media...I would be devastated and most likely sedated.

After going through it with my sister, I know for a fact, I'd need to be scraped off the floor with a spatula if it were my kids. I don't know how people find the will to breathe after something like this happens to their child.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Another 12 year old is missing near Tampa Florida. :doh:

Are you kidding me???? Good grief!

 

[Miss Daisey]

My husband lost my son in the mall about nine years ago, and I can't even explain what your mind experiences during a time like that. First you run one way, then you think of something and run the other way, then you think of something else and run back again ... over & over & over. You can't think straight; you can't breath ... you don't know what to do first. And after it's over, you can't remember it clearly, and you're physically exhausted.

To me, it's quite possible that she did a bit of the running back & forth, calling their names, running & picking up the phone, running back out, etc.

JG, I know that tightening-of-the-throat panic one feels when you think your child is lost if only for a moment. There's probably no parent that hasn't experienced it at one time or another.

 

[lauriej]

While it's quite possible --- and I'd like to give the mother the benefit of the doubt but it's been hard --- I doubt she did a lot of "running back & forth" if it took her around 30 minutes to notice the first time at 4pm that her kids were outside unattended. If it is true, in fact, that the neighbor brought the kids back ...

...it does seem strange, that when the kids were missing for 30 minutes at 4 p.m. that she hadn't called 911, yet missing for 5 minutes, or so, at 6 p.m. she does call police..

 

[browneyes]

--for your defense of bad mothers like me! My 16 year old son spent weeks at camp when he was 8, rode the train to another city and used their public transport system when he was 14, hiked and camped many a mountain with just a few peers. Now he is a junior in booarding school heading for a term in Europe. He is adventurous and gregarious, but he understands the need for caution in his life. Some people are destined to be bold in their lives, and our son was from almost day one--angelic in looks and attitude, but a leader of a band of "outdoor boys", building those forts and climbing those trees.

Moraq, my children did the same things. However, not at age 2 and 3. I think people are misunderstanding the questions here. No one here thinks it's bad to let your children do age appropriate things...but not keeping an eye on 2 and 3 year olds just does not make any sense. Now, they will never grow up and enjoy the wonderful things your son did.

 

[kathrynr448]

Did you see the mom on tv? She was acting like she was crying, but there were no tears. What was there, though, was eye make up. Not to mention a bow in her hair. Not that I would wear a bow in my hair anyway (not since the 1960s), but I really don't think if my children had been found dead I would have bothered to do the makeup and hair thing.
Very hinky. And I agree with Nan, very Susan Smith.

I noticed the crying/no tears thing too. And the bow and makeup. I thought her affect was flat, all things considered. Hinky is a good word for it.

 

[amandab]

We use this "system" too with all the little ones in the family....especially at my Moms because she has a pool. We just don't assume that someone knows the child has come in from the pool....we make sure someone is watching that child and will tell someone if he/she wants to return outside/inside or to the pool.

Another 12 year old is missing near Tampa Florida. :doh:

What's their name?

 

[browneyes]

I agree but it has been said that the mother would take the kids out for walks. I don't know if they had seen it at some point in the journeys with their mom.

Also, if that pond was only several hundred yards away, I don't think it's that unlikely that the kids made it there during that 5-15 minutes. And if there was a lot of brush or woods between the house & the pond, there's nothing to say that they made it to the pond in 15 minutes; they might have just made it to a spot where their mother couldn't see them from the yard anymore.

I thought I heard the father on Fox last night (and I could be wrong) say that the children had never been to that particular pond. :waitasec: