GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[Jeana (DP)]

thanks for the head's up. I plan to now tune in

I pray to God that I'm wrong about this mother and I have to eat crow for the next week.

 

[browneyes]

Thanks browneyes...it's been a tough year so far...that was the start of all of it too :blowkiss:

Bless you and your family. :blowkiss:

I know how hard it is when you lose a loved one.

 

[Kymistry35]

OMG, how awful! I was praying for a miracle. My heart goes out to the family.

 

[lady-eowyn]

Maybe you're right about withholding judgment, but we're just talking.

Oh, I know everyone is just talking Jeana I guess I just hold a strong stance against judgement because alot of what I hear seems to be based on the "way" people live...like the comments about the tire in the yard, or the run down trailer, or the bow in her hair. It all feels like awful harsh judgement towards someone simply because they are "different" from the "middle America" norm. It could also be because I know people who have lived like this...and I know they would get the same harsh judgment because they dress different, or live different that what is considered normal. But I know these people LOVE their children as much as anyone else. Another thing I think we fail to look at is whether something like depression played a part in this. The mother to me looked "tired"...I get that these people scrape by day to day on a measly paycheck..but are probably too proud to ask for assistance. It's a life many American's live, most of us don't understand it...but it doesn't make them bad parents IMO.

 

[Timex]

I wonder ... if there was anything suspicious, would the coroner be holding a press conference? I would think it would be the Sheriff or police chief if there was something suspicious. I also wouldn't think it would be so soon.

Going on what I heard last, which was a couple hours ago, Im not expecting them to find anything. Im not sure who the man speaking was (VERY southern accent), but he said, and he emphasized, they were not expecting to find any signs of foul play.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh, I know everyone is just talking Jeana I guess I just hold a strong stance against judgement because alot of what I hear seems to be based on the "way" people live...like the comments about the tire in the yard, or the run down trailer, or the bow in her hair. It all feels like awful harsh judgement towards someone simply because they are "different" from the "middle America" norm. It could also be because I know people who have lived like this...and I know they would get the same harsh judgment because they dress different, or live different that what is considered normal. But I know these people LOVE their children as much as anyone else. Another thing I think we fail to look at is whether something like depression played a part in this. The mother to me looked "tired"...I get that these people scrape by day to day on a measly paycheck..but are probably too proud to ask for assistance. It's a life many American's live, most of us don't understand it...but it doesn't make them bad parents IMO.

Agreed. The only thing about her looks that raised my eyebrows was the apparent lack of tears, but hearing the sobs, if you know what I mean. I don't hold being poor against them, but it would have taken less than a few dollars to make that gate or that door child proof and that I DO hold against them.

 

[lady-eowyn]

Agreed. The only thing about her looks that raised my eyebrows was the apparent lack of tears, but hearing the sobs, if you know what I mean. I don't hold being poor against them, but it would have taken less than a few dollars to make that gate or that door child proof and that I DO hold against them.

I know sometimes when I'm in a situation where the grief is unbearable, like losing a loved one, I will cry until no more tears will come...at that point I can still sob but the tears are dried up. But I do know where you are coming from, I felt the same way in the Aisenberg case...but she didn't even sob!! And believe me, these parents will beat themselves up for the rest of their lives for not making the door or gate more secure...I can assure you of that. That will be punishment enough for them...all the what ifs.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And believe me, these parents will beat themselves up for the rest of their lives for not making the door or gate more secure...I can assure you of that. That will be punishment enough for them...all the what ifs.

Especially since they had bought the lock & simply had not installed it yet.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

IndiaDaily - Autopsies conducted on Georgia toddlers

... A path leads directly to the pond from the children's home...

 

[kato]

Maybe you're right about withholding judgment, but we're just talking. My problem is that the kids had a history of letting themselves outside. No precaution was taken at either the door to the trailer or the gate outside of the yard, either of which would have prevented the deaths. Secondly, while she could definately be heard "sobbing," the tears were absent. Something we've seen in cases where mom wasn't telling the truth.

Right DP i agree, we're just talking and making observations no need for people to get so defensive.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I know sometimes when I'm in a situation where the grief is unbearable, like losing a loved one, I will cry until no more tears will come...at that point I can still sob but the tears are dried up. But I do know where you are coming from, I felt the same way in the Aisenberg case...but she didn't even sob!! And believe me, these parents will beat themselves up for the rest of their lives for not making the door or gate more secure...I can assure you of that. That will be punishment enough for them...all the what ifs.

Agreed. As you may know, my little sister was missing for 11 years before her remains were found. I still have to brace myself before I can think about her for too long or I won't be able to stop crying.

Its just that to me, I didn't notice the redness, blotchyness or puffyness on this woman that most of us get after crying for long periods of time. Maybe she just doesn't show any affects.

 

[londonPI]

okay, but here is my question and maybe i'm wrong...
if your ONLY TWO SMALL CHILDREN were found in a pond dead, would you, only hours later go on not one, but two television shows talking about this? i could see if the children were buried, but on the same day? that is fishy, i just don't see how anyone WOULD WANT to do such a thing hours after their death. if nothing more, why isn't he consoling the family, grandparents, etc.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

okay, but here is my question and maybe i'm wrong...
if your ONLY TWO SMALL CHILDREN were found in a pond dead, would you, only hours later go on not one, but two television shows talking about this? i could see if the children were buried, but on the same day? that is fishy, i just don't see how anyone WOULD WANT to do such a thing hours after their death. if nothing more, why isn't he consoling the family, grandparents, etc.

Maybe he's trying to stay busy to keep himself from injuring his fiance. If my husband was watching my children when something like this happened, rational or not, I think I might kill him.

 

[lady-eowyn]

okay, but here is my question and maybe i'm wrong...
if your ONLY TWO SMALL CHILDREN were found in a pond dead, would you, only hours later go on not one, but two television shows talking about this? i could see if the children were buried, but on the same day? that is fishy, i just don't see how anyone WOULD WANT to do such a thing hours after their death. if nothing more, why isn't he consoling the family, grandparents, etc.

london, I think this is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't...seriously. In cases like this it seems that no matter how the parents act, not matter what they do SOMEONE is going to judge them. And sometimes I think the media manipulates people into talking to them...it brings them ratings. Not everyone is media saavy...these seem like just plain folk to me...they probably aren't thinking about what it "looks" like...

 

[lady-eowyn]

Agreed. As you may know, my little sister was missing for 11 years before her remains were found. I still have to brace myself before I can think about her for too long or I won't be able to stop crying.

I read that earlier Jeana...I'm so sorry, I can imagine how hard it must be to deal with that, no matter when it happened :blowkiss:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Maybe he's trying to stay busy to keep himself from injuring his fiance. If my husband was watching my children when something like this happened, rational or not, I think I might kill him.

You "might"????? You're a better person than I.

 

[Meech]

Maybe he's trying to stay busy to keep himself from injuring his fiance. If my husband was watching my children when something like this happened, rational or not, I think I might kill him.

I agree...MIGHT...NO I WOULD...

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I read that earlier Jeana...I'm so sorry, I can imagine how hard it must be to deal with that, no matter when it happened :blowkiss:

You too darlin!!! :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Thank you so much Jeana & Meech ... I was afraid to even say it, fearing I might be perceived as crazy! I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one!

 

[Sheromom]

okay, but here is my question and maybe i'm wrong...
if your ONLY TWO SMALL CHILDREN were found in a pond dead, would you, only hours later go on not one, but two television shows talking about this? i could see if the children were buried, but on the same day? that is fishy, i just don't see how anyone WOULD WANT to do such a thing hours after their death. if nothing more, why isn't he consoling the family, grandparents, etc.

I doubt any of us really know WHAT we would do and hope we never find out. I do know that when my mother died, I felt nothing but NUMB for a couple of weeks. I couldn't understand why I wasn't "mourning" properly. I think God makes us numb as a protection to get us through these times. That said, I have suspected the mom from the beginning because of her changing story. That, however, could be the press. I must also say that I wish they would quit talking about her messy house. When my fourth child was born, I GAVE it up, realizing that I would either keep a neat home or I would parent my children. I chose the latter. Now the grandkids are rolling in and the place is still not up to par. Quite frankly, I don't care. I tell my friends to make themselves a trail through the toys or come back another time! (I am exaggerating but just don't think it matters unless the place was filthy or dangerous. Two babies would make keeping up appearances quite difficult)!