GA - Katherine Janness, 40, fatally stabbed and dog killed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 Jul 2021 #4

[Periwinkl3]

DBM

 

[Periwinkl3]

One scenario i have considered since the beginning is that Katie walked to Henry’s from the crosswalk intending to walk home with E. Katie and Bowie were abducted from henrys parking lot. Maybe a vehicle bumped them, hurting Bowie. The driver tells Katie to get in the car and they will drive Bowie to the 24 hr vet down the street…
Yes, this seems far fetched and most likely they were killed where they were found. But, I also think that them being killed where they were found hard to believe.

I've wondered if something on the order of "Can you help me, my puppy is hurt" a la Ted Bundy was said to get her into a van or over to a darker part of the park. These days where I live, post-Covid especially, most times a woman with a pit bull/mix implies "rescue dog." Which then suggests the person is kind-hearted and vulnerable to helping animals.

That is, if a stranger did this. And that seems less likely to me than someone who wanted her gone for personal reasons.

I wonder if it was overheard in the bar where EC was working that KJ&B were heading for PP.

 

[BGGS]

There are odd details and rumors surrounding this case, so I, too, have considered the possibility that they were killed in a different location.

However, I think my biggest doubt about the use of a vehicle is due to the CA gate entrance camera, the same one from which we saw the footage of potential witnesses (ie. jogger). Unless the vehicle managed to enter the park at an entrance without a camera, then stayed just out of view of the CA camera while dumping the bodies, there would have to be footage of a vehicle, somewhere. But LE never even asked about anyone seeing a vehicle inside the park. And if the killer didn't enter through the CA gate, why drive from elsewhere in the park to dump them there specifically?

I also am uncertain why a killer would abduct both KJ and Bowie when Bowie could have just been left behind. And then to dump them 100 feet apart doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Idk, nothing is out of the question at this point, but these are just some of my random thoughts.

It's my random thoughts that get to me sometimes. So when I have nagging thoughts like the one about the crime scene, I have to look for answers. And something the guy said in that recent podcast got me to thinking that maybe it didn't happen where she was found. So I had to put it out there -- especially because, to me, it would explain why nobody heard or saw anything, or how the park was able to be open the next day as if nothing had happened there.

And now I'm looking at your comment "LE never even asked about anyone seeing a vehicle inside the park" -- now I'm wondering, maybe they didn't have to, because they saw it on camera? Again, I'm not sure if vans or other vehicles can enter at the CA gate.

 

[BGGS]

I've wondered if something on the order of "Can you help me, my puppy is hurt" a la Ted Bundy was said to get her into a van or over to a darker part of the park. These days where I live, post-Covid especially, most times a woman with a pit bull/mix implies "rescue dog." Which then suggests the person is kind-hearted and vulnerable to helping animals.

That is, if a stranger did this. And that seems less likely to me than someone who wanted her gone for personal reasons.

I wonder if it was overheard in the bar where EC was working that KJ&B were heading for PP.

I've wondered that too, Periwinkle.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

I've wondered if something on the order of "Can you help me, my puppy is hurt" a la Ted Bundy was said to get her into a van or over to a darker part of the park. These days where I live, post-Covid especially, most times a woman with a pit bull/mix implies "rescue dog." Which then suggests the person is kind-hearted and vulnerable to helping animals.

That is, if a stranger did this. And that seems less likely to me than someone who wanted her gone for personal reasons.

I wonder if it was overheard in the bar where EC was working that KJ&B were heading for PP.

According to Henry's Tavern website, they close at 10 pm on Tues nites. There is no way of knowing, unless locals on here actually go there, if customers 'linger' after closing or not. IMO I think that's why KJ went by Henry's to begin with. To see why EC wasn't home around 11.
EC was training new employee(s) according to her interview is why she was busy when KJ stopped by to say "hi, I'm walking the dog then headed home" & why EC was there so late.
IIRC, no one has ever stated that KJ said they were going to PP. According to EC, she didn't think that KJ would walk in the park that late, KJ took different routes, knew the midtown area very well & sometimes would walk thru the park from the 12th St entrance to the 10th St entrance.
She stated KJ felt very safe in the area. EC stated that other than people occasionally approaching them asking for money they really never had any issues & that these panhandlers seemed to be harmless.
JMOO.

 

[BGGS]

Do we have an exact time the crime tape was removed from the scene?

Was there ever crime tape? (Gah, I'm getting so cynical about the way this crime was handled!)

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Was there ever crime tape? (Gah, I'm getting so cynical about the way this crime was handled!)

There was crime tape. That night it can be seen in multiple MSM reports from 11alivenews & channel46news. From the west side of the CA/10th entrance all the way around the outside of the trees behind the RR bldg over to where KJ was found, an area of heavy brush next to the lake up to the 'back' walkway near the lake & the area where Bowie was found from the garbage cans across the roadway starting up the slope towards 10th/Argonne Ave & across thru the trees to the walking path parallel to 10th St. There were at least 2 K9's up & down 10th St into the park.
I am trying to locate the news video the next afternoon where 2 women & several (4) other people were interviewed in the park where CS tape can be seen behind them. None of them had any idea a murder had occurred. One woman was walking her dog.

 

[LavenderField]

I was reading about Jack the Ripper the other day and the murder of Catherine “Kate” Eddowes stuck out to me. She was killed within earshot of (at least) one other person, yet nothing was heard. He slit her throat and then went on to mutilate her, similar to how Katie Janness was killed. I think it’s very likely that Katie was killed where she was found.

Another similarity between the two cases is something that John Douglas mentioned in his book “The Cases That Haunt Us”. An entire section of the book is dedicated to Jack the Ripper and in one chapter Douglas talks about how JTR was mutilating the bodies out of fascination and morbid curiosity about the human/female body. I wish that I could find the exact quote but I listened to the book on audible.

I also think it’s worth noting that LE has never mentioned how Bowie was killed. Most of us (myself included) assumed that a knife was used but as far as I have seen there has never been any mention of this. I think it’s fair to assume that Bowie was incapacitated quickly and it most likely happened before Katie was killed, but we don’t actually know how.

Sorry this post is all over the place. I have been following this closely since the beginning and just created an account so I can participate in the discussion. Something about this one really stuck with me.

 

[K.jill]

They took a whole tree as evidence, or a least a huge branch.

For what it’s worth that tree limb sat on the ground for 2 to 3 days before they took it in.

If I am recalling correctly the tree branch was across from where Katie was found? Is that correct? Anyone know?

 

[K.jill]

It's my random thoughts that get to me sometimes. So when I have nagging thoughts like the one about the crime scene, I have to look for answers. And something the guy said in that recent podcast got me to thinking that maybe it didn't happen where she was found. So I had to put it out there -- especially because, to me, it would explain why nobody heard or saw anything, or how the park was able to be open the next day as if nothing had happened there.

And now I'm looking at your comment "LE never even asked about anyone seeing a vehicle inside the park" -- now I'm wondering, maybe they didn't have to, because they saw it on camera? Again, I'm not sure if vans or other vehicles can enter at the CA gate.

The park is closed to traffic, all of the time. The only people driving in the park should be maintenance or security. Gates are open and vendors are allowed to drive through the park for festivals/concerts.
And, the park is closed 11 pm to 5 am. People are not supposed to be walking in the park after 11 PM. Of course there are people who do go to the park after hours and sometimes they get arrested.

The entrance near where Katie and Bowie were found is off 10th st which is a busy street at any time. It’s also across the street from a large high school. And the gate is usually closed. If it was left open you would get drunk/high or confused drivers turning in regularly. This would be dangerous because of all of the walkers bike ride or skateboarders inside the park. I personally find it unusual that we can see in the video of the jogger/potential witness that the gate is partially open. I cannot say how often that happens that the gate is not locked at night but I’m guessing it is unusual.

 

[BGGS]

<snipped for space>
I am trying to locate the news video the next afternoon where 2 women & several (4) other people were interviewed in the park where CS tape can be seen behind them. None of them had any idea a murder had occurred. One woman was walking her dog.

Yes! I remember that now! I remember being astonished that I live 4 hours away and knew a murder had occurred, but some residents of ATL didn't.

 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

I know it will sound very insensitive, but after homicide detectives finish processing a crime scene, it gets cleaned up. There’s no set timeframe on how long it has to remain closed off. From all of the things that I’ve read and heard, Katie was killed in a grassy area. A lot of blood probably soaked into the ground making it appear less bloody than it actually had been.

secondly, I have been in Piedmont park at night and it is extremely dark. It is very possible for the killer to have committed this crime and not be seen by anyone. Once her throat was cut, she probably immediately lost consciousness and couldn’t scream. Her cellphone was there and could’ve been used as a “light”.
IMO, Bowie was probably strangled with his leash. The killer could’ve tightened it around his neck and then went after Katie. Bowie wouldn’t have been able to defend her and would have slowly died while Katie was being murdered. He probably collapsed where he was found.
Lastly, I do believe there are witnesses to the murder but I don’t think they knew what was happening. Piedmont park is one of those places where so much weird stuff happens, you just kinda mind your business while walking through. If she wasn’t screaming, potential witnesses mightve thought it was just two homeless people sleeping in the grass. Pp is full of homeless people. They sleep in the grass and on the benches.
I do find it interesting that the guy that is heard on the 911 call could clearly see KJ’ though. It makes me think that perhaps the killer dragged her closer to the sidewalk at some point. I also find it odd that reports state EC was there for 10 minutes before calling 911. If true, that is a very long time and seems odd. These are just my thoughts.

 

[BGGS]

I know it will sound very insensitive, but after homicide detectives finish processing a crime scene, it gets cleaned up. There’s no set timeframe on how long it has to remain closed off. From all of the things that I’ve read and heard, Katie was killed in a grassy area. A lot of blood probably soaked into the ground making it appear less bloody than it actually had been.

secondly, I have been in Piedmont park at night and it is extremely dark. It is very possible for the killer to have committed this crime and not be seen by anyone. Once her throat was cut, she probably immediately lost consciousness and couldn’t scream. Her cellphone was there and could’ve been used as a “light”.
IMO, Bowie was probably strangled with his leash. The killer could’ve tightened it around his neck and then went after Katie. Bowie wouldn’t have been able to defend her and would have slowly died while Katie was being murdered. He probably collapsed where he was found.
Lastly, I do believe there are witnesses to the murder but I don’t think they knew what was happening. Piedmont park is one of those places where so much weird stuff happens, you just kinda mind your business while walking through. If she wasn’t screaming, potential witnesses mightve thought it was just two homeless people sleeping in the grass. Pp is full of homeless people. They sleep in the grass and on the benches.
I do find it interesting that the guy that is heard on the 911 call could clearly see KJ’ though. It makes me think that perhaps the killer dragged her closer to the sidewalk at some point. I also find it odd that reports state EC was there for 10 minutes before calling 911. If true, that is a very long time and seems odd. These are just my thoughts.

It seems like a pretty quick timeframe to have finished processing the scene, though, if the general public was allowed in the next day.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Still retrieving relevant news reports re crime scene.
A question for locals or people familiar w/PP.
A long time ago you could drive down Park Dr. & cross an old bridge then park in a small lot to the right.
Can a vehicle still drive across that bridge into the park?
Can a vehicle drive into the park from the lot at Dutch Valley Rd off Monroe Dr.?
TIA.
Oops, 2 questions..

 

[Kittybunny]

It seems like a pretty quick timeframe to have finished processing the scene, though, if the general public was allowed in the next day.

Honestly I have followed a lot of true crime, and it is a bit astonishing to me how quickly they clean and clear crime scenes, but this was a bit on the faster side. I also don't want to be insensitive but as @GeorgiaPeach1 pointed out, it's not hard to clean up outdoor crime scenes. A strong hose on grass and/or pavement will do the trick.

Now evidence processing is a different question. Thinking about another outdoor crime scene that I know about, Abby and Libby in Delphi Indiana were killed in a wooded outdoor area, lots of leaves, etc. I'll have to go back to see how long they were at the crime scene or kept it blocked off. It was probably more than a day, but certainly not weeks.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

I'm seeing 2 easy ways to drive into PP off of 10th St. IMO.


Just below the group of tall bldgs in the background is the CS. This is near Monroe Dr. across street from Midtown HS.


This is just below the CA entrance approx 200-250ft.
The red flag in background is in the center of concrete circle approx 75ft from KJ CS.
Note the small white sign 'no motor vehicles'.

IMO a vehicle can be driven into PP.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

A few pics re CS tape.


11alive news report 07/28/21 approx 6am. Notice yellow tape running in different depths on right half of pic. Possibly CS of Bowie where LEV located on right.


This is a pic I've never seen before taken 07/28/21 in the afternoon. Notice mud wash in foreground. CS tape still up in this area. IMO taken on walking path parallel w/lake.


11alive news taken Sat., 07/31/21.
Investigative teams meet to search PP. IMO this is when the tree branch was taken by CSI & the day divers searched the lake.

 

[Periwinkl3]

Thank you, AtlantaBourne. I may be wrong but the closest visible trees don’t look like they’ve got low, easily climbed branches. So I’m thinking the taken-away branch might have been on the ground already? Or do we know that LE cut it off?

Why would they take it?

 

[AtlantaBourne]

Thank you, AtlantaBourne. I may be wrong but the closest visible trees don’t look like they’ve got low, easily climbed branches. So I’m thinking the taken-away branch might have been on the ground already? Or do we know that LE cut it off?

Why would they take it?

In an earlier thread, maybe Thread 1, a fellow WS'er posted a pic of a detective next to a tree with what looked like a hatchet/axe sitting on the ground next to him. There was discussion on it. The tree appeared to be a hardwood, IMO, but the limb loaded in the Atl PD CSI van appears to be from a pine tree. A local WS'er reported the limb was taken from the ground. Possibly more than 1 limb was taken & MSM only showed the 1 limb loaded in the van.
IMO, the limb(s) were taken after the initial autopsy & necropsy were done. My speculation is something was found on the bodies, clothing or leash that prompted the limb collection. Possibly to analyze or use for comparison to something found.

JMOO.

 

[TL4S]

In an earlier thread, maybe Thread 1, a fellow WS'er posted a pic of a detective next to a tree with what looked like a hatchet/axe sitting on the ground next to him. There was discussion on it. The tree appeared to be a hardwood, IMO, but the limb loaded in the Atl PD CSI van appears to be from a pine tree. A local WS'er reported the limb was taken from the ground. Possibly more than 1 limb was taken & MSM only showed the 1 limb loaded in the van.
IMO, the limb(s) were taken after the initial autopsy & necropsy were done. My speculation is something was found on the bodies, clothing or leash that prompted the limb collection. Possibly to analyze or use for comparison to something found.

JMOO.

We do know, per the autopsy, that leaves and debris (maybe dirt, too?) were found inside KJ's wounds. The tree limb might likely represent the material that LE would expect to find in her wounds had she been killed there. But let's say the leaf species came from a tree that was only by the lake. That would point to a second location. Just as an example...

Iirc, the autopsy read like this debris was found in most her wounds, which to me suggests a lot of movement, either by KJ herself, or her killer rolling her over. It could also suggest the weapon was dirty from the event. Jmo.